AW101 possible acquisition by Pakistan Navy - WDF Exclusive | Page 4 | World Defense

AW101 possible acquisition by Pakistan Navy - WDF Exclusive

Pakhtoon yum

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
1,375
Reactions
2,107 44 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
What in the world is Pakistan buying from Italy that costs 800 million? I asked Ark Angel and his response was multiple stuff. Possibilities are:

1. Helicopter (AW-101?)
2. More of those excellent howitzers
3. APCs
4. Eurofighter lease??
5. Naval subsystems for new ships being inducted (Yarmouk, Azmat, Milgem / Jinnah, Alamgir...) These can include a possible naval SAM system
Or more AW-139s. Pakistan is buying alot of them and doesnt seem to stop. Those things arent cheap either.

I believe pakistan showed intrest in their air defense too.
 

Khafee

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
12,324
Reactions
24,463 1,293 0
Dont think it will affect J-15 procurement since J-15s are mainly coming for Navy However they could be bought in place of J-10s and even rumours of Pakistan procuring J-10s are not confirmed , I think Khafee only confirmed news of J-15s and F-16s not J-10s.
J10 are also coming IA
 

Khafee

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
12,324
Reactions
24,463 1,293 0
There is a significant different in cost of acquiring J-10 vs Euro Fighter. While China might give us the jets on easy financing/loans, Italy is in no position to give us favors. Only hard cash can tempt them.
Everyone, NO EFT's are coming, so lets move on.
 

Khafee

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
12,324
Reactions
24,463 1,293 0
@Khafee how come?? Many yrs back Usman Shabbir said PAF will procure 80-90 copies of J20C with WS13 engine C inlet specialily designed for PAF but later you know the story.
Another member Rafi at PDF said J10C
J10 is on the plate, that is all I know.
 

Zulu

MEMBER
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
500
Reactions
2,010 60 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Ya that ship sailed long ago like gripen but coming back to topic hope they decide some helos for navy as with good term with Leonardo and their vast product range many options. i pray they dont hang it in air like PA rifle prog
Everyone, NO EFT's are coming, so lets move on.
 
Last edited:

Khafee

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
12,324
Reactions
24,463 1,293 0

Zulu

MEMBER
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
500
Reactions
2,010 60 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Recently, China’s Z-20 anti-submarine warfare helicopter debuted, indicating that Z-20 naval-type helicopter may be used in the same way as the U.S. MH60R/S, combining Z-20 anti-submarine type and multi-purpose type, to improve Chinese surface ships’ combat capability.


It’s similar to MH60R anti-submarine warfare helicopter
In the new century, China’s demand for helicopters increased rapidly as a result of the large number of new naval surface ships come into service. The Chinese Navy’s current helicopters, such as Z-8, Z-9, and Ka-28, are difficult to meet requirements in both quantity and quality. In this case, the Chinese Navy decided to develop a new generation of helicopters based on the homemade Z-20 helicopters – the Z-20 navy-purpose helicopter.


Z-20 shipboard multipurpose helicopter with no radar antenna under the nose

It’s equivalent to the MH60S helicopter.
The U.S. Army’s new generation of shipboard helicopters is divided into two categories, MH60R to perform anti-submarine tasks and sea-to-ground strike tasks, equipped by naval strike helicopter squadron. And MH60S to perform amphibious warfare, special operations, fire support, and other tasks, used by the naval combat helicopter squadron. This combination emphasizes both the multipurpose capability of the helicopters and their respective focus, resulting in a high level of combined effectiveness.


Z-9 is too small to carry out ocean-going missions

The interior of Ka-28 helicopter is small

Z-8 is too big
According to military analyst Xiao Feizhu, China’s Z-20 helicopter has also taken Americans’ design ideas and is developed into two types to meet the Chinese Navy’s needs. One of these two types is equivalent to the MH60R and makes the anti-submarine warfare helicopter, while the other is similar to the MH60S and is a utility helicopter. This means that both helicopters use the same airframe, engine, drivetrain and avionics systems. It will help to reduce the logistical difficulties of surface ship formations, which are important for ocean-going manoeuvre operations.

It is speculated that the Chinese navy, like the U.S. navy, may group its helicopters into com assault bat helicopter brigades and combat helicopter brigades, the former equipped to aircraft carriers and surface ships for anti-submarine, anti-ship and firefighting missions. And the latter will be equipped to amphibious assault ships, dock landing ships, etc. for amphibious operations, airborne assault, special operations, and fire support missions.


Z-20 helicopters with mounts on either side for ground attack missions
It is interesting to note that the difference in appearance between the Z-20 ASW and the multi-purpose type is the fact that the former has a large sea search radar mounted on its nose, which is also the main difference in appearance between the MH60R and MH60S. But the Z-20 anti-submarine warfare helicopter seaward search radar is a bit better than the MH60R.

Sources say that the Z-20 helicopter uses integrated radio frequency technology, the sea search radar using an active phased-array system, which can not only search the sea but also perform electronic reconnaissance missions. The Z-20 is also the world’s first helicopter to use integrated radio frequency technology, which improves helicopter detection capabilities and also saves space inside the helicopter, facilitating its ability to perform multiple missions.


Z-20 should be the main helicopter of China’s homemade amphibious assault ships
As mentioned earlier, the Chinese Navy had been short of suitable helicopters until the development of Z-20. Z-9 has been too small to support the towing line sonar long-range detection capability, it is difficult to accompany the formation to carry out ocean-going manoeuvre combat, the internal space of Ka-28 is insufficient, and its coaxial twin rotors have high requirements for space of hangars. And Z-8 series helicopter’s tonnage and size are too large, making it difficult to use in small and medium-sized surface ships.

These shortcomings were exposed in the Gulf of Aden escort operation, which led to the Chinese Navy’s awkward situation of “no (helicopter) available”. This problem has now been radically improved with the introduction of the Z-20 helicopter. On the other hand, its small size allows it to be used on small and medium-sized vessels, thus enhancing combat capabilities of the Chinese navy’s surface vessels.
 

Scorpio

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
1,662
Reactions
3,018 66 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan

Pakhtoon yum

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
1,375
Reactions
2,107 44 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I dont see why Pakistan isnt aggressively pursuing the Z-20 and Z-18. The Z-20 is a proven and tested design. While the Z-18 is perfect for replacing the mi-17.

Pakistan severely lacks in strategic lift this standoff in ladakh should've rang some bells but I dont see anything. PA needs to be moved in large numbers to the north or south within hours. This cant be done with a handful of C-130s and Mi-17s

Like everything else Pakistan shall wait until a disaster happens to finally realize their weakness on this front.
 

Gripen9

THINK TANK
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,417
Reactions
5,232 245 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
USA
Why would that be an issue? Can you elaborate?
Z-20 is comparable to SH60/MH60 in weight 10-tons. It is being powered by 2 x WZ-10 turboshaft which are officially rated at 1600 KW each.
SH/UH/MH60 are powered by 2 x T700 turboshafts rated at 2500 KW each. That is like 35% less power for similar weight class helo.

I based by response keeping in mind sub par performance of Z-10s original WZ-9 engine.
 

TsAr

THINK TANK
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
1,054
Reactions
3,227 74 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Why would that be an issue? Can you elaborate?
Chinese have been able to master electronics but when it comes to metallurgy/engines they are not there yet. It is a good start for them but it will take them some time before there platforms are mature. Only then they would be able to win the confidence of PN or PAF.
 
Top