CBU 105 equivalent | World Defense

CBU 105 equivalent

Cookie Monster

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Salam everyone.
This is a speculative thread as I have nothing concrete to go off of. Opening it more out of curiosity than anything else.

Are there any CBU105 equivalents that Pak can acquire? Or is it possible for Pakistan to develop something like it? If we look at the huge quantity of Indian tanks, APCs, and IFVs...and consider the long border between India/Pak with vast plains and deserts...one can see how India would try to overwhelm Pak forces with numbers.

Many members here may already be aware of Indian Cold Start Doctrine...for which they created integrated battle groups...so they can make quick shallow thrusts in many areas...across the large border...and seize small swaths of territory within days...before large scale mobilization from either side comes into full effect.
...to be used as a bargaining chip.

While Pakistan already has many different counters to this in play ranging from small anti tank teams equipped with Baktar Shikan...all the way up to NASR...
I think it would be highly beneficial for Pakistan to acquire something like a CBU105...and equip it to all of PAF's jets(barring F16s I suppose bcuz I don't think that would be allowed).
Normally in case of war...PAF would have the main duty of
- Deterring IAF
- Providing air cover to PA and PN
- Carrying out strikes in Indian territory(like destroying their forward bases, supply depot, runways, etc).

Of these three...first two being defensive and the third being offensive when and where possible. Due to the massive size of IA and IAF...PAF would be more tied up with the first two roles...for a good while before the momentum can shift in any meaningful way.

With CBU105 equivalent added in these scenarios...equipping hundreds of jets(Mirages, JF17s, J10s, J15s)...all of a sudden...PAF along with PA...are now both counters to IA armored advances. Stopping the massive behemoth and denying any momentum from the get go would be a major advantage...it would deny India any leverage it may hope to use...and would bring them to the negotiating table sooner.

@Khafee @Gripen9 @Pakhtoon yum @TsAr @aliraza @capricorn5192 @Scorpio @War Historian @Caprxl @Mingle @iceman007 @DHsquare @PWFI @PatriotPak
Tag other members plz
 

Gripen9

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I have not seen the Chinese Gb-6 standoff munition dispenser in PAF inventory even though it is supposedly it is certified for JF-17.
That would be an ideal candidate for a deploying anti tank smart sub munitions from stand off ranges.

1627499359663.png
 

Pakhtoon yum

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Salam everyone.
This is a speculative thread as I have nothing concrete to go off of. Opening it more out of curiosity than anything else.

Are there any CBU105 equivalents that Pak can acquire? Or is it possible for Pakistan to develop something like it? If we look at the huge quantity of Indian tanks, APCs, and IFVs...and consider the long border between India/Pak with vast plains and deserts...one can see how India would try to overwhelm Pak forces with numbers.

Many members here may already be aware of Indian Cold Start Doctrine...for which they created integrated battle groups...so they can make quick shallow thrusts in many areas...across the large border...and seize small swaths of territory within days...before large scale mobilization from either side comes into full effect.
...to be used as a bargaining chip.

While Pakistan already has many different counters to this in play ranging from small anti tank teams equipped with Baktar Shikan...all the way up to NASR...
I think it would be highly beneficial for Pakistan to acquire something like a CBU105...and equip it to all of PAF's jets(barring F16s I suppose bcuz I don't think that would be allowed).
Normally in case of war...PAF would have the main duty of
- Deterring IAF
- Providing air cover to PA and PN
- Carrying out strikes in Indian territory(like destroying their forward bases, supply depot, runways, etc).

Of these three...first two being defensive and the third being offensive when and where possible. Due to the massive size of IA and IAF...PAF would be more tied up with the first two roles...for a good while before the momentum can shift in any meaningful way.

With CBU105 equivalent added in these scenarios...equipping hundreds of jets(Mirages, JF17s, J10s, J15s)...all of a sudden...PAF along with PA...are now both counters to IA armored advances. Stopping the massive behemoth and denying any momentum from the get go would be a major advantage...it would deny India any leverage it may hope to use...and would bring them to the negotiating table sooner.

@Khafee @Gripen9 @Pakhtoon yum @TsAr @aliraza @capricorn5192 @Scorpio @War Historian @Caprxl @Mingle @iceman007 @DHsquare @PWFI @PatriotPak
Tag other members plz
Considering Pakistan is the underbelly of China. Pakistan should double down on the whole "Pakistan is china's Isreal" doctrines. This means emphasis on high tech and troop survivability at all costs.

We all know how that effects moral and war outcomes ex. Arab Isreal wars.
 

Khafee

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M483A1 projectile
K-310 projectile
PSD-1 dispenser
TSD-1 dispenser
BL-755 bomb
Rockeye bomb

1627506514200.png
 

Caprxl

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A good discussion you opened up, I do not know about CBU-105 equivalent in PAF but am sure if not already the new platforms especially J-10Cs &/or mirages are ideal for this purpose. As mentioned above by brothers, we do have Cluster/Dispenser ammunition but is it SMART as like of CBU-105 has to be seen.

On the other hand a quick google revealed to me that India does operate CBU-105 to operate from their Jaguars. On their own, Jaguars probably will be dealt by PAF interceptors but it is to be expected that they will not be flying alone & be definitely escorted by other IAF Aircrafts for top cover.
 

aliraza

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A good discussion you opened up, I do not know about CBU-105 equivalent in PAF but am sure if not already the new platforms especially J-10Cs &/or mirages are ideal for this purpose. As mentioned above by brothers, we do have Cluster/Dispenser ammunition but is it SMART as like of CBU-105 has to be seen.

On the other hand a quick google revealed to me that India does operate CBU-105 to operate from their Jaguars. On their own, Jaguars probably will be dealt by PAF interceptors but it is to be expected that they will not be flying alone & be definitely escorted by other IAF Aircrafts for top cover.
cluster munitions aren’t something new
my view on the subject is that we should focus on mbrl based cluster munitions
which are much more easy to deploy and dirt cheap too considering u need a jet to take if off and drop it again
 

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Cluster ammunition in service with Pakistani Armed Forces

M483A1
- 155mm artillery shell, manufactured by POF. Contains 88 M42/M46 DPICM grenades

K-310 - 155mm ER DPICM projectiles manufactured by POF, under license from Poongsan

TSD-1 - Manufactured by National Development Complex as the Hijara Top-Attack Submunitions Dispenser (TSD-1) cluster bomb.

PSD-1 - Manufactured by Pakistan Air Weapons Center similar to the Rockeye cluster bomb and dispenses 225 anti-armor bomblets.

BL-755 - British made High Explosive Anti Tank cluster bomb

Mk-20 Rockeye II Bomb / CBU-100 - American made cluster bomb

GB-6 - Chinese Cluster Bomb, with a stand off range in excess of 130kms, can carry 240 sub-munitions of six types.
 

Cookie Monster

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Cluster ammunition in service with Pakistani Armed Forces

M483A1
- 155mm artillery shell, manufactured by POF. Contains 88 M42/M46 DPICM grenades

K-310 - 155mm ER DPICM projectiles manufactured by POF, under license from Poongsan

TSD-1 - Manufactured by National Development Complex as the Hijara Top-Attack Submunitions Dispenser (TSD-1) cluster bomb.

PSD-1 - Manufactured by Pakistan Air Weapons Center similar to the Rockeye cluster bomb and dispenses 225 anti-armor bomblets.

BL-755 - British made High Explosive Anti Tank cluster bomb

Mk-20 Rockeye II Bomb / CBU-100 - American made cluster bomb

GB-6 - Chinese Cluster Bomb, with a stand off range in excess of 130kms, can carry 240 sub-munitions of six types.
As far as I can find the info on TSD1 and PSD1...it seems that they are very similar to CBU100.
...and they are basically very close to CBU105...with the only difference being the "sensor infused" part.

TSD1 and PSD1 are cluster munitions...but they would be considered "dumb bombs". They do not have the sensors to identify a target...and therefore do not have that mechanism to hover(like in CBU105 bomblets). Instead...the bomblets of the cluster munitions operated by PAF...just randomly disburse over an area.

So I guess...the main discussion should then be...comparing effectiveness of "dumb cluster munitions" vs "smart cluster munitions" against armored vehicles.
Secondly the cost factor...if Pakistan can improve upon these current cluster munitions and make them something like the CBU105 in a cost effective manner...
...then Pakistan can build up the numbers over time like it has with Baktar Shikan.

If the above can be achieved...that's when it will offer a huge advantage against Indian armor. IAF will have limited quantities...and only be able to use their CBU105s from limited IAF jets. PAF on the other hand will be able to manufacture it freely(without having to import) and with any of its jets(barring F16s).

P.S. I found that TSD1 weighs 500lbs(assuming if accurate)...I think that's better than the CBU105 that weighs 1000lbs. It would allow even a light fighter like JF17 to carry it on its hard points without any modifications required. Since it carries submunitions...weight can be easily adjusted to find a sweet spot...where it suits all the jets from the get go...and yields a decent chunk of firepower over a large area.
 
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