IAF Rafale | Updates | Page 5 | World Defense

IAF Rafale | Updates

PWFI

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PL-15 is inferior to AMRAAM 120D. Chinese are even behind russians forget Americans. as for 'raptor' of the East it still is SU 30MKI.
PAF ain't matching it anytime soon. You can call rafale nightmare of the east though (:-)
Leave Pl-15 is inferior to amraam and russians thing a part, hopefully very soon chinese will make sure you guys taste their tea as well.
Even if IAF has Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen, F-22, F-35...in indians hands they would be as good as nothing. Remember "Mitroooo aaaaj Rawpeiiiiil hotta to ntija aur hona tha"
 

Zaslon

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the Indians are over reacting as if the Rafales are major game changer, they said the same thing when they received the Su-30MKI. however the Rafales will become a burden on them because they are expensive, and India doesn't have the finances to maintain a mix-hybrid fleet of Russian and NATO aircraft......
someone asked if India could acquire the AM39 Exocet for the Rafales. India does have interest/plans to acquire the Exocet AShM, MICA AAM, SCALP cruise missile, and is considering the AASM HAMMER Munitions, what they would consider game changer. well of course, it would be one of the most advanced jets (excluding the PLAAF aircraft) but again, India doesn't have the financial strength of operating a huge fleet of high-end fighter jets, and that's why they are right now putting so much focus and energy towards the Su-30MKI and Tejas family aircraft
 

Ghessan

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PL-15 is inferior to AMRAAM 120D. Chinese are even behind russians forget Americans. as for 'raptor' of the East it still is SU 30MKI.
PAF ain't matching it anytime soon. You can call rafale nightmare of the east though (:-)
where and how do you learn these skills? is there some institute in India that make you guys so much out of the world amazing thing?
you lot! has always amazed the world with your skills, upbringing, training, competitiveness and the World leans to give respect to you people.

BUT! is it that all that intellect is just to name the planes like this and that of the east etc etc?

don't those institutes teach honor, dignity and the courage of the man instead power of machine?

i don't need answers for those i wrote above, if you had answers, you would have performed.
 

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I wish on 27th February, PAF pilots had refused to agree to the protocol of shoot at bani gala's permission.
Consequently, all such discussions would have not taken place, post 27th February, 2009.
I also hope next PM would reverse the protocol back to shoot at sight.
Having said that, what our Indian friend is not considering, that the hit rate of BVR, depend highly on the distance from where it was shot and it's target, this is irrespective of BVR's range specs.
One simple reason for this is that opponent will have more time for counter measures, which is the next challenge for the BVR beside getting end of it's own gas.
Therefore, even scoring a kill with BVR require high skills, experience and a smart strategy.
On the contrary, our Indian friend is implying with his posts, that only buying a long range BVR is enough. Actually first of all he should count, how many long range BVR India can bring to the sky, when in case PAF is in opposition, which can only happen when InAF break the rule of getting surprised.
I'm afraid the fate of hand full Rafeal would not be any different to what become of Indian mig-21 in September 1965 or if they did manage to fly, all Meteors will bring same result as of Spider/s.
 
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Nightfox

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All this bvr talk is really dependent on multiple things like dogfight altitude,radars,2 way link or not,jamming,target speed,dual pulse or not etc.So unless the meteor goes in actual combat it's not easy to demonstrate it's performance compared to the AMRAAM(which has been demonstrated).Ofcourse the same also applies to the PL15.

Btw does anyone know what AAM Turkey used to shoot that Russian jet over Syria a few years back ?.
 

BATMAN

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All this bvr talk is really dependent on multiple things like dogfight altitude,radars,2 way link or not,jamming,target speed,dual pulse or not etc.So unless the meteor goes in actual combat it's not easy to demonstrate it's performance compared to the AMRAAM(which has been demonstrated).Ofcourse the same also applies to the PL15.

Btw does anyone know what AAM Turkey used to shoot that Russian jet over Syria a few years back ?.
Yes there are multiple parameters involved in success and failure of a BVR missile, but the distance to target is squarely proportional to the end result.
If the strategy is to fire and forget from distance of 120+km. don't be surprised if it's hit rate drops to 25%.
So with strike rate of 25%, what can 5 Rafale in air, bring to the table.
I expect here, InAF will never again fly close to the once line of control.
 

Nightfox

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Yes there are multiple parameters involved in success and failure of a BVR missile, but the distance to target is squarely proportional to the end result.
If the strategy is to fire and forget from distance of 120+km. don't be surprised if it's hit rate drops to 25%.
So with strike rate of 25%, what can 5 Rafale in air, bring to the table.
I expect here, InAF will never again fly close to the once line of control.
True since the NEZ should be inverse to the distance from target the further,the missile is fired from the more time there is for evasive actions.
 

Thermonuclear

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True since the NEZ should be inverse to the distance from target the further,the missile is fired from the more time there is for evasive actions.
NEZ mean no escape zone. The movement you entered the BVRAAM NEZ cone. the distance from which the missile is fired means nothing anymore. a plane can not outmanoeuvre a BVRAAM just on it's maneuveribility alone in the missile NEZ. meteor NEZ from what i heard is more than 80 km.

now let's do some calculations.
KlJ 7A AESA... a underpowered AESA with claimed range of 170km against a 5m2 target going up against a rafale , one on one .
with RCS value of say 1m2 for Rafale without it using it's EW system( actual RCS is around 0.06m2 with spectra on ).
JF 17 will see Rafale at 114 km under best case scenario. 60km under worst case scenario.
It will be to late for JF 17 by then , how you may ask ?
well RBE 2 AA AESA has 210 km range for a 5m2 target & with Spectra on it's around 270km . With F3R upgrade specially for Spectra , senstivity & range has increased many folds.
Rafale will detect & provide accurate firing solution against a JF 17 with same RCS of 1m2 at upwards of 180 km. It's actual RCS is much higher than that though. Rafale will see first shoot first.
 
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BATMAN

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KlJ 7A AESA... a 2nd generation underpowered AESA with claimed range of 170km against a 5m2 target going up against a rafale , one on one .
How it's publicized is 170+km+ for the small sized fighter, while SU30 and 5 Rafale are not small sized.
I hope you are not trying to say that Indian pilots will shoot Meteor from 200km+ distance!
 

Thermonuclear

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How it's publicized is 170+km+ for the small sized fighter, while SU30 and 5 Rafale are not small sized.
I hope you are not trying to say that Indian pilots will shoot Meteor from 200km+ distance!
SU 30 use brute jamming power of it's jamming pods for effective burn through & power of it's upgraded bar's radar to overcome most obstacle. Old generation AESA's are not that immune to jamming as you think they are.

RBE 2 AA AESA like AN/APG 77(v)1 & AN/APG 81 on F 22, F 35 is a 3rd generation AESA using vivaldi flared notch radiators. Which basically means It's a Radar with ultra wide band characteristics.
which can take very high power load's offer very high bandwidth , directivity , gain hence increased range , very very high resolution even in longer ranges , ECCM , ECM capability , better LPI characteristics etc etc.

You see those tapperd slot array aka vivaldi flared notch radiators on RBE 2 AA AESA.
Screenshot_2020-06-10-15-24-32-85.jpg


notice the V shaped flared notch. Here's the simplified pic.
geometry of TSA.png


narrower region of the notch.. radiates RF signals of high frequency, while broader part radiates RF signals of low frequency.
it's basically 2 TRM packed in one
.

so next time you hear 838 TRM on Rafale, real number is 1676 TRM.
Power available to rafale is many folds over JF 17 along with superior computational power, data fusion capability from it's multiple sensors allow it's radar to achieve capabilities unthinkable in previous generation of radars. So yes it will take on enemy at longer ranges.
 
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Slam Eagle

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Meteor , the primary BVRAAM for Indian Rafale has 3 times the NEZ in head on engagement than AMRAAM thanks to next generation throttleable ducted rocket aka ramjet technology.


View attachment 16255


View attachment 16256

State of the art > along with this meteor has 3 to 6 times the kinetic performance of conventional BVRAAM including dual pulse ones. Coupled with RBE 2 -AA AESA spectra combo + AWACS support. Full potential of this BVRAAM is now have been realised.

Hold on, since it comes to speaking about Meteor missile, is the RBE-2 able to take advantage of Meteor's long-range?

It is known that the RBE-2 could track a 2.7 square meters target from 108km in optimum conditions. There are a lot of factors that can reduce the range even more. Using ECM and flanking flight pattern would reduce the range significantly.

I don't really like the obsessive about missiles, having a good missile doesn't mean necessarily an ability to fully operate it.

 

Khafee

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India adds 5 French-made fighter jets in military upgrade

10 Sept 2020

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Water is sprayed on a French-made Rafale fighter jet during its induction ceremony at the Indian Air Force Station in Ambala, India, Thursday, Sept.10, 2020. The first batch of five planes, part of a $8.78 billion deal signed between the two countries in 2016 had arrived here in July. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup)

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Indian Defense Minister Rajnath Singh, second left and French Defense Minister Florence Parly, right, walk during an induction ceremony of French-made Rafale fighter jets at Air Force Station Ambala, India, Thursday, Sept.10, 2020. The first batch of five planes, part of a $8.78 billion deal signed between the two countries in 2016 had arrived here in July. (AP Photo/Manish Swarup)

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NEW DELHI (AP) — The Indian air force inducted into service five French-made Rafale fighter jets Thursday amid heightened tensions with China along their disputed frontier.

New Delhi has sent reinforcements of fighter jets and military equipment to the Ladakh region after the tense standoff there escalated to hand-to-hand combat between Indian and Chinese soldiers on June 15 that left 20 Indians dead.

At the ceremony at a northern airbase, India’s Defense Minister Rajnath Singh said the induction of fighter aircraft was very significant given the security situation at India’s borders. In addition to the standoff in the Ladakh region, Indian troops regularly clash with Pakistani soldiers along their de facto frontier in Kashmir, which is claimed by Pakistan and divided between them.

The fighter jets are part of a $8.78 billion deal signed with France in 2016 as India seeks to modernize its military. All the 36 planes are scheduled to be delivered by 2022 after being made in France.

French Defense Minister Florence Parly, who attended the ceremony, said the Rafale aircraft have proven their capabilities in tackling rebel forces in Mali and Syria. The fully combat-proven ability of the aircraft will “provide an edge to India in the region to protect itself,” she said.

Singh also said that India is now playing play an important role in protecting peace and security in the Indo-Pacific and the Indian Ocean regions.

The first five planes had arrived at the airbase in Ambala in northern Haryana state on July 29. It’s an operational base for Indian forces stationed at the borders with Pakistan and China.

The Rafale have 13 custom features and long-range missiles, providing the Indian air force capabilities like long-range strikes, air defense and interdiction, defense analyst Rahul Bedi said.

The Rafales are the first foreign fighters to join the Indian air force after the Russian Su-30MKI’s were inducted into service in 1997, Bedi said.
 

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The French delegation at the ceremony included French envoy Emmanuel Lenain, Air General Eric Autellet, Vice Chief of French Air Force, Chairman and Chief Executive of Dassault Aviation Eric Trappier, and CEO of missile maker MBDA Eric Beranger.

10 Rafale jets have been delivered to India so far and five of them stayed back in France for training IAF pilots. The delivery of all 36 aircraft is scheduled to be completed by the end of 2021.

A second batch of four-five Rafale jets is likely to arrive in India by November.

Out of 36 Rafale jets, 30 will be fighters and six will be trainers. The trainer jets will be twin-seater and they will have almost all the features of the fighter jets. While the first squadron of the Rafale jets will be stationed at Ambala air base, the second will be based at Hasimara in West Bengal.

The 17 Squadron of the IAF was resurrected in September last year. It was raised at Air Force Station, Ambala on in October 1951. The 17 Squadron has many firsts to its credit; in 1955 it was equipped with the first jet fighter, the legendary De Havilland Vampire.

 
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