Is it the end of the A380?

[Khafee]

Emirates orders Boeing Dreamliners worth USD 15 billion: Is it the end of the A380?
Nov 21, 2017

With the significant Emirates order now gone, questions are being raised about the fate of the Superjumbo whose sales have been dwindling for quite some time.

Excitement over a possible deal between Emirates and Airbus was brewing ahead of this year's Dubai Air Show. Emirates was expected to place a new order of 36 A380 aircraft.

The deal would have boosted sales prospects of Airbus' ailing flagship aircraft, also nicknamed as the 'Superjumbo'.

However, just a few days after Airbus delivered Emirates' 100th A380, the Dubai-based airline made an eleventh-hour switch and instead placed a fresh order worth USD 15 billion with Airbus' main rival Boeing.

Emirates' decision to buy swanky new 787 Dreamliners at a cost of USD 15.1 billion, not only dents Airbus financially, but also puts a question mark on the future of the world's biggest commercial aircraft.

With 100 A380 aircrafts, Emirates is the largest user of the A380. Singapore Airlines comes in at a distant second place with just 19 in-service A380s.

Airbus had first bagged orders for 76 A380s in 2001. However, by the time the first prototype took off in 2005, Airbus was receiving orders as low as 10 per year.

In 2007, the aircraft was pressed into service for the first time by Singapore Airlines. While demand from Singapore Airlines and Emirates initially drove the sales number up, the numbers have been falling ever since.

Airbus received an order for two A380s in 2015 and none in 2016. Amid crashing sales of the Superjumbo, Airbus was looking at Emirates, the model's largest user, with hope. However, with this significant order now gone, questions are being raised about the aircraft's future.

The Superjumbo
The Airbus A380 is the world's only double-decker commercial aircraft. The aircraft is 239 feet long and 79 feet tall, making it the largest of its kind, also shadowing its rival, the iconic Boeing 747 'jumbo jet'.

A single unit of the A380 costs around USD 430 million and can carry 525 people in a three-cabin configuration and 853 people in the single class configuration.
With a flying range of just over 15,000 kms, coupled with the ability to carry more than 500 passengers, the aircraft became an integral part of airlines' hub-and-spoke operations.

Here's what went wrong
There were significant delays in production of the aircraft right from the beginning. Some of the A380 aircraft also faced problems with their engines. Engines manufactured by both the Engine Alliance as well as Rolls Royce were involved in engine failure incidences.

Having a larger aircraft with more seats also involved a financial risk with regard to filling capacity and operational costs.

At the same time, smaller and more fuel-efficient twin-engine aircraft such as the new Boeing 777 and Airbus' own A350 were launched.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...illion-is-it-the-end-of-the-a380-2443351.html

 

[Lieutenant]

The dreamliners are stealing the light. Currently there are no pending orders for the A-380. With the current rift with Qatar, the UAE should have not pulled away from the deal.

The question here is the A-380 suitable for military use?

 

[I.R.A]

With the current rift with Qatar, the UAE should have not pulled away from the deal.

The question here is the A-380 suitable for military use?

Boss its a passenger airline ........ incorporated with main objective of profit making. If the need arises I guess UAE can spend the same amount of money for procurement of military planes ...... but keeping these white elephants (as it appears from the problems quoted below) just because some day these can serve some military purpose won't be a profitable idea. PIA got ruined because of this.

Some of the A380 aircraft also faced problems with their engines. Engines manufactured by both the Engine Alliance as well as Rolls Royce were involved in engine failure incidences.

Having a larger aircraft with more seats also involved a financial risk with regard to filling capacity and operational costs.

 

[Lieutenant]

Boss its a passenger airline ........ incorporated with main objective of profit making. If the need arises I guess UAE can spend the same amount of money for procurement of military planes ...... but keeping these white elephants (as it appears from the problems quoted below) just because some day these can serve some military purpose won't be a profitable idea. PIA got ruined because of this.

Why can't a commercial airplane be converted to military one. The UAE could convert its A-380 fleet for reconnaissance and transporting purposes. It would cost and arm for sure but it could install all necessary equips and do complete overhaul for half a price!

 

[I.R.A]

Why can't a commercial airplane be converted to military one. The UAE could convert its A-380 fleet for reconnaissance and transporting purposes. It would cost and arm for sure but it could install all necessary equips and do complete overhaul for half a price!

Boss my take is ...... that UAE unlike my country has sufficient solvency to procure and maintain the two air wings separately. In this case buying new additional A-380s with the idea to later convert them into military purpose crafts isn't cost beneficial nor its advisable. However, on the other hand with existing fleet of A-380s, do they need to convert them? depends on their needs, situation and profitability of those aircraft ....... do they really need to convert? Had it been Pakistan of 60s it would have made sense that we need to ......

Anyhow if these 100 A-380s are to be grounded altogether and Boeing aircraft are to take their place ...... then may be the idea to convert the A-380s would make sense?

 

[Nima]

Well even though I love to see A380 and B747-8 to remain in the sky I have to admit they are not too much profiting. B777-9 for instance carries 440 passengers in three classes 14000 km away with only two highly efficient engines it's a better choice. However operating few of these iconic airliners make sense if branding is desired and there are some busy long range routes which you can operate the plane with full capacity.

 

[I.R.A]

Well even though I love to see A380 and B747-8 to remain in the sky I have to admit they are not too much profiting. B777-9 for instance carries 440 passengers in three classes 14000 km away with only two highly efficient engines it's a better choice. However operating few of these iconic airliners make sense if branding is desired and there are some busy long range routes which you can operate the plane with full capacity.

These huge aircraft have daily flying schedules or once in a week or a month? I don't think you have that many air travelers to fly them everyday? And then you have 100 of such huge aircraft ........ I mean the demand and revenue exceeds the maintenance / operations and administrative cost of these aircraft?

 

[Nima]

These huge aircraft have daily flying schedules or once in a week or a month? I don't think you have that many air travelers to fly them everyday? And then you have 100 of such huge aircraft ........ I mean the demand and revenue exceeds the maintenance / operations and administrative cost of these aircraft?

Well Emirates operates 4 or 5 daily flights to JFK airport with A380s.off course it's very profiting and there are more destinations like this. There's an interesting figure that shows every 15 years the number air travel doubles. That's very insane. So yes there are many busy routes which justify use of A380s. Another good example is Frankfurt-LAX flight by lufthansa A380 which is full all the time.

Also wrong purchase of A380 may make airlines go bankrupt in no time. IranAir was going to order 12 A380s which was not very necessary but hopefully they canceled.

 

[I.R.A]

Well Emirates operates 4 or 5 daily flights to JFK airport with A380s.off course it's very profiting and there are more destinations like this. There's an interesting figure that shows every 15 years the number air travel doubles. That's very insane. So yes there are many busy routes which justify use of A380s. Another good example is Frankfurt-LAX flight by lufthansa A380 which is full all the time.

Also wrong purchase of A380 may make airlines go bankrupt in no time. IranAir was going to order 12 A380s which was not very necessary but hopefully they canceled.

Interesting the numbers of A 380 in Emirates are then justified. And it must be the backbone of that airline?

So a thorough evaluation and good estimation before purchasing this aircraft is a very very must ....... like availability of routes to justify operation of this aircraft and number of passengers ......... actually considering the competition a better over all air service and experience.

 

[Khafee]

Why can't a commercial airplane be converted to military one. The UAE could convert its A-380 fleet for reconnaissance and transporting purposes. It would cost and arm for sure but it could install all necessary equips and do complete overhaul for half a price!

A380 in recon role - In recon you have the drones on one end, who loiter for hours, or even days, and then you have DB110 pod equipped a/c's that cross enemy lines, do a pass, and they are out. A380 is not fit for either of these roles.

A380 in Transportation role - The C17, comparatively is very agile, yet expensive to operate. The A380, would be more expensive to operate, and is not that agile as well. When flying into air fields, where hostiles are relatively close, a corkscrew landing & take off is done. The A380, would have a tough time pulling it off. This is just one example.

When the military buys a platform, the OP-EX is kept in mind, sometimes more than the CAP-EX. The A380 being typically Airbus is not easy to maintain, or as robust as a Boeing, so I don't think it will ever happen.

The A330 MRTT chosen by the Saudis and UAE was done so partially, because no Boeing equivalent was available, at that time.

 

[Khafee]

Boss its a passenger airline ........ incorporated with main objective of profit making. If the need arises I guess UAE can spend the same amount of money for procurement of military planes ...... but keeping these white elephants (as it appears from the problems quoted below) just because some day these can serve some military purpose won't be a profitable idea. PIA got ruined because of this.

PIA was a classic case, of turning a public asset that was profitable into a socialist airline.

Employees getting family tickets 7yrs (maybe more) after leaving the airline, Medical benefits 30 years after retiring, spare parts sold to bring down inventory cost, then 6 months later being bought again, political appointees.

IF one were to look only at PIA, one would be given the impression that it is a socialist republic airline, and we all know how they function.

Airline business is cut throat, margins are low, costs have to be carefully managed. PIA had, and still does have, monopoly on certain routes, but sadly it is a benchmark case in what corruption can do.

 

[I.R.A]

PIA was a classic case, of turning a public asset that was profitable into a socialist airline.

Employees getting family tickets 7yrs (maybe more) after leaving the airline, Medical benefits 30 years after retiring, spare parts sold to bring down inventory cost, then 6 months later being bought again, political appointees.

IF one were to look only at PIA, one would be given the impression that it is a socialist republic airline, and we all know how they function.

Airline business is cut throat, margins are low, costs have to be carefully managed. PIA had, and still does have, monopoly on certain routes, but sadly it is a benchmark case in what corruption can do.

I have been part of the team that assisted their internal audit for sometime. Frankly the whole organisation reflects at the priorities of the government, the killing of the merit, the safarish culture, the nepotism, the corruption, that habit of being lazy rears, exploitation, blackmailing, thuggery, incompetence and every evil of our society ........ I have seen all of this in that one organisation. Got threatened by a political party goon (for not backing down from my observations) ..... wo to ALLAH ka shuker bai wahi tha un dino Congo peace mission pay jany k liay.

It can be revived the only thing needed is will and no sympathy for lazy rears.

 

[Khafee]

I have been part of the team that assisted their internal audit for sometime. Frankly the whole organisation reflects at the priorities of the government, the killing of the merit, the safarish culture, the nepotism, the corruption, that habit of being lazy rears, exploitation, blackmailing, thuggery, incompetence and every evil of our society ........ I have seen all of this in that one organisation. Got threatened by a political party goon (for not backing down from my observations) ..... wo to ALLAH ka shuker bai wahi tha un dino Congo peace mission pay jany k liay.

It can be revived the only thing needed is will and no sympathy for lazy rears.

Could you elaborate?

 

[I.R.A]

Could you elaborate?

He is PA, infantry, currently under torture (doesn't like studying) in staff college, younger than me. Congo ...Siachin... Swat.... Waziristan straight in one go.

 

[Khafee]

SIA selects Airbus for A380 cabin retrofit services

• 20 NOVEMBER, 2017
• BY: FIRDAUS HASHIM
• SINGAPORE

Singapore Airlines has picked Airbus to provide cabin retrofit services for 14 A380s.

Airbus says the retrofit work will be undertaken by the customer's own MRO subsidiary, SIA Engineering (SIAEC). The airframer's Services by Airbus unit will be responsible for service bulletins and cabin parts-kit delivery, as well as providing design knowledge and engineering expertise to SIAEC.

The retrofit work is to begin in late-2018 and be completed by 2020, says Airbus. The 14 aircraft will be fitted with 471 seats across four classes – respectively 30 and 92 more seats than in the two configurations currently in use on SIA A380s, and similar to the new superjumbos the airline is set to receive, thus bringing product consistency across the type.

Qantas has previously chosen Airbus to refurbish 12 of its A380s. That work will begin in the second quarter of 2019 and be completed by the end of 2020.

"We are very pleased to have been selected by Singapore Airlines to integrate its new A380 cabin, which will offer its passengers the best and latest onboard products," states Laurent Martinez, head of Services by Airbus. "Singapore Airlines' trust in our retrofit competencies is a positive sign for the development of our services business, in particular in the fast-growing Asia-Pacific region."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...GAMN-2017-1129-GLOB|news&sfid=70120000000taAg