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Pakistan Navy's SSBN plans

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I agree to the most part.
However the two bullet points you mentioned are interrelated .
With limited resources we need to spend them on places where its most needed and effective.
They are not interrelated IMO.

I need food and water to stay alive...if I can afford it...great...I need it for survival.
...if I can't afford it...that's too bad...but still I need it for survival.

The points u r arguing here could very well apply to Pak's nuclear program in general. Pakistan is still a poor country...it was poor when it started its nuclear program...and it was poor for all that time in between...
...but does Pakistan need its nukes? Yes. They are needed for survival...they keep India at bay. If I could rub a genie lamp and wish for Pak to be able to switch place with Switzerland(India as an enemy is not a worry)...I would argue myself that Pak should stop spending money on its nuclear program and spend it on ppl(education, healthcare, uplifting ppl from poverty, and so many more things to list here). However we have to play with the hand we r dealt and survival is of utmost importance. Nukes(and their extension with SSBNs) are one of those strategic things that can keep even the most powerful enemies at bay...and thus they are needed for survival.
 
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Khafee

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They are not interrelated IMO.

I need food and water to stay alive...if I can afford it...great...I need it for survival.
...if I can't afford it...that's too bad...but still I need it for survival.

The points u r arguing here could very well apply to Pak's nuclear program in general. Pakistan is still a poor country...it was poor when it started its nuclear program...and it was poor for all that time in between...
...but does Pakistan need its nukes? Yes. They are needed for survival...they keep India at bay. If I could rub a genie lamp and wish for Pak to be able to switch place with Switzerland(India as an enemy is not a worry)...I would argue myself that Pak should stop spending money on its nuclear program and spend it on ppl(education, healthcare, uplifting ppl from poverty, and so many more things to list here). However we have to play with the hand we r dealt and survival is of utmost importance. Nukes(and their extension with SSBNs) are one of those strategic things that can keep even the most powerful enemies at bay...and thus they are needed for survival.
Paksitan is only poor because of ba$tards who enrich London, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Monaco, Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc.
 

safriz

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They are not interrelated IMO.

I need food and water to stay alive...if I can afford it...great...I need it for survival.
...if I can't afford it...that's too bad...but still I need it for survival.

The points u r arguing here could very well apply to Pak's nuclear program in general. Pakistan is still a poor country...it was poor when it started its nuclear program...and it was poor for all that time in between...
...but does Pakistan need its nukes? Yes. They are needed for survival...they keep India at bay. If I could rub a genie lamp and wish for Pak to be able to switch place with Switzerland(India as an enemy is not a worry)...I would argue myself that Pak should stop spending money on its nuclear program and spend it on ppl(education, healthcare, uplifting ppl from poverty, and so many more things to list here). However we have to play with the hand we r dealt and survival is of utmost importance. Nukes(and their extension with SSBNs) are one of those strategic things that can keep even the most powerful enemies at bay...and thus they are needed for survival.
If I am the decision maker, I will make a Sierra instead of SSBN.
That will make Pakistan a bigger nuclear power than SSBN.



 

Khafee

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If I am the decision maker, I will make a Sierra instead of SSBN.
That will make Pakistan a bigger nuclear power than SSBN.



A supercomputer is great...it would do wonders for research in Pakistan.

However coming back to the point...it's not that other things are not necessary. Like I said before...Pakistan is a poor country...there are a ton of other things this money can be spent on...
...but like I said before...nukes(and a guarantee of MAD with SSBN) are one of those strategic things...that can keep even a giant like India at bay. If u remain unconvinced still...that's fine...there's no point to discuss where else would the money be better spent...bcuz like I said...there are thousands of other things that Pakistan needs to spend money on.

As for using a supercomputer to improve Pakistan's nukes...I would assume Pak relied on China to use their supercomputers to run simulations. As per some sources...South Africa carried out nuclear tests on behalf of Israel...if South Africa and Israel(countries not as close as China/Pak) can do that...then I assume China/Pak cooperation is much more than they let on publicly.
Paksitan is only poor because of ba$tards who enrich London, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Monaco, Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc.
I was watching a documentary/investigative report about water shortage and tanker mafia in Karachi.
- It showed the hardships that the poor ppl have to face there. Women literally had to walk miles to try and find some water.
- As for the "sarkari" water...it would hardly ever come...and ppl literally stay up nights...waiting for it. In the documentary...it showed that when the water finally started coming through at like 4am...it was mixed with sewage water so much so that ppl could smell it.
- Some woman who had a mentally challenged daughter found it cheaper to buy cheap clothes for her daughter(for when she pees herself) than to buy water to be able to wash her clothes. Imagine water being so unaffordable that rather than being able to wash ur clothes...instead u buy other clothes and toss out dirty ones.

Stuff like this makes my blood boil...if I could...I would skin these PPP mofos(and others like them) alive.
 
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safriz

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A supercomputer is great...it would do wonders for research in Pakistan.

However coming back to the point...it's not that other things are not necessary. Like I said before...Pakistan is a poor country...there are a ton of other things this money can be spent on...
...but like I said before...nukes(and a guarantee of MAD with SSBN) are one of those strategic things...that can keep even a giant like India at bay. If u remain unconvinced still...that's fine...there's no point to discuss where else would the money be better spent...bcuz like I said...there are thousands of other things that Pakistan needs to spend money on.

As for using a supercomputer to improve Pakistan's nukes...I would assume Pak relied on China to use their supercomputers to run simulations. As per some sources...South Africa carried out nuclear tests on behalf of Israel...if South Africa and Israel(countries not as close as China/Pak) can do that...then I assume China/Pak cooperation is much more than they let on publicly.

I was watching a documentary/investigative report about water shortage and tanker mafia in Karachi.
- It showed the hardships that the poor ppl have to face there. Women literally had to walk miles to try and find some water.
- As for the "sarkari" water...it would hardly ever come...and ppl literally stay up nights...waiting for it. In the documentary...it showed that when the water finally started coming through at like 4am...it was mixed with sewage water so much so that ppl could smell it.
- Some woman who had a mentally challenged daughter found it cheaper to buy cheap clothes for her daughter(for when she pees herself) than to buy water to be able to wash her clothes. Imagine water being so unaffordable that rather than being able to wash ur clothes...instead u buy other clothes and toss out dirty ones.

Stuff like this makes my blood boil...if I could...I would skin these PPP mofos(and others like them) alive.
Between Pakistan and India MAD is assured right now without any party doing anything else.
Pumping more money on something that is already in place is not wise.
India or Pakistan don't have the capability of tracking and destroying each other's nukes preemptively
 

Khafee

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Between Pakistan and India MAD is assured right now without any party doing anything else.
Pumping more money on something that is already in place is not wise.
India or Pakistan don't have the capability of tracking and destroying each other's nukes preemptively
Wise or not, ball is in motion, how about we move forward, from this moot point?
 

baqai

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we are poor? bc my neighborhood only there are houses which have 4-11 cars (yes i kid you not fucking 11), 2020 S class Mercedes Benz, 2020 C class, 2019 Audi A7, 2019 Lexus LX570, Porsche Cayenne are just few of the beauties around

we are not poor we are fucking thieves and dakoo and we rape our mother (Pakistan) day in and out
 
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we are poor? bc my neighborhood only there are houses which have 4-11 cars (yes i kid you not fucking 11), 2020 S class Mercedes Benz, 2020 C class, 2019 Audi A7, 2019 Lexus LX570, Porsche Cayenne are just few of the beauties around

we are not poor we are fucking thieves and dakoo and we rape our mother (Pakistan) day in and out
Counting cars of a few elites(who most likely acquired it through non honest means) doesn't mean that the nation as a whole is not poor.

That's not even up for debate...yes the nation is poor...but that is mostly due to our own faults(as a whole). In any case...that's a moot point. Poor or not...SSBNs are a strategic need...it was just a question of when...and it seems that "when" is coming soon.
 
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safriz

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A supercomputer is great...it would do wonders for research in Pakistan.

However coming back to the point...it's not that other things are not necessary. Like I said before...Pakistan is a poor country...there are a ton of other things this money can be spent on...
...but like I said before...nukes(and a guarantee of MAD with SSBN) are one of those strategic things...that can keep even a giant like India at bay. If u remain unconvinced still...that's fine...there's no point to discuss where else would the money be better spent...bcuz like I said...there are thousands of other things that Pakistan needs to spend money on.

As for using a supercomputer to improve Pakistan's nukes...I would assume Pak relied on China to use their supercomputers to run simulations. As per some sources...South Africa carried out nuclear tests on behalf of Israel...if South Africa and Israel(countries not as close as China/Pak) can do that...then I assume China/Pak cooperation is much more than they let on publicly.

I was watching a documentary/investigative report about water shortage and tanker mafia in Karachi.
- It showed the hardships that the poor ppl have to face there. Women literally had to walk miles to try and find some water.
- As for the "sarkari" water...it would hardly ever come...and ppl literally stay up nights...waiting for it. In the documentary...it showed that when the water finally started coming through at like 4am...it was mixed with sewage water so much so that ppl could smell it.
- Some woman who had a mentally challenged daughter found it cheaper to buy cheap clothes for her daughter(for when she pees herself) than to buy water to be able to wash her clothes. Imagine water being so unaffordable that rather than being able to wash ur clothes...instead u buy other clothes and toss out dirty ones.

Stuff like this makes my blood boil...if I could...I would skin these PPP mofos(and others like them) alive.
South Africa has a large and influential Jewish population, so the countries are very much related.

On topic, weapon yield and size are of paramount importance in submarine launch.
The weapon needs to be as compact as possible and still be powerful enough to destroy a city.
That's where super computer comes handy.
Currently Pakistan has far superior weapons design than India.
Theirs are big and heavy, that's why they needs bigger missiles and still have no MIRV capability.
The smallest strategic yield weapon Pakistan has is the one used on Shaheen-1A experimental version and the Shaheen-3 operational version.
The same warhead is used in MIRV configuration on Ababeel.
That warhead can be mounted on a submarine launched ballistic missile.
However as of now Pakistan has no demonstrated capability of encapsulating a ballistic missile, neither an appropriate missile for SLBM nor a submarine fit for the purpose
 

Gripen9

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South Africa has a large and influential Jewish population, so the countries are very much related.

On topic, weapon yield and size are of paramount importance in submarine launch.
The weapon needs to be as compact as possible and still be powerful enough to destroy a city.
That's where super computer comes handy.
Currently Pakistan has far superior weapons design than India.
Theirs are big and heavy, that's why they needs bigger missiles and still have no MIRV capability.
The smallest strategic yield weapon Pakistan has is the one used on Shaheen-1A experimental version and the Shaheen-3 operational version.
The same warhead is used in MIRV configuration on Ababeel.
That warhead can be mounted on a submarine launched ballistic missile.
However as of now Pakistan has no demonstrated capability of encapsulating a ballistic missile, neither an appropriate missile for SLBM nor a submarine fit for the purpose
That collaboration was under the Apartheid regime. There has been minimal defense related collaboration b/w South Africa and Israel post apartheid. Mandela did not have high regards for the Jewish state.
 

safriz

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That collaboration was under the Apartheid regime. There has been minimal defense related collaboration b/w South Africa and Israel post apartheid. Mandela did not have high regards for the Jewish state.
Yes because after Mandela came, they moved to Israel and elsewhere.
 
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South Africa has a large and influential Jewish population, so the countries are very much related.

On topic, weapon yield and size are of paramount importance in submarine launch.
The weapon needs to be as compact as possible and still be powerful enough to destroy a city.
That's where super computer comes handy.
Currently Pakistan has far superior weapons design than India.
Theirs are big and heavy, that's why they needs bigger missiles and still have no MIRV capability.
The smallest strategic yield weapon Pakistan has is the one used on Shaheen-1A experimental version and the Shaheen-3 operational version.
The same warhead is used in MIRV configuration on Ababeel.
That warhead can be mounted on a submarine launched ballistic missile.
However as of now Pakistan has no demonstrated capability of encapsulating a ballistic missile, neither an appropriate missile for SLBM nor a submarine fit for the purpose
Despite the Jewish population...South Africa and Israel didn't have as extensive a military cooperation as Pak/China have.

The tech u r talking about regarding SLBM...would be the least of the worries for Pak. The harder thing to develop would be a nuclear sub. Pak has extensive experience with ballistic missiles...even North Korea has made SLBMs. In any case...all relevant tech seems to be under development...
1) MIRV(Ababeel)
2) PN's antiship ballistic missile(would allow the capability for either cold launch or hot launch depending on which one is chosen) and VLS for a ballistic missile.

IMO(complete speculation) PN's announced anti ship missile would most likely be a cold launch one(as most SLBMs use this option which is safer)...it would be more efficient...as compared to developing hot launch for this...and then developing cold launch for the SLBM.

As for the sub...yeah as of yet Pak has no submarine that is fit for the purpose of firing SLBMs...but as already established...plans for a SSBN are underway.
 
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