Pakistan to get F16 -Blk70/72 | Page 64 | World Defense

Pakistan to get F16 -Blk70/72

TomCat

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Its front look like su33 wit EF size canards
And rear f22
Rear looks like YF-23, and judging by this fanart's shape, it's intakes are similar to SU-57. Ohh, how crazy we are to discuss a fanart, however, the concept displayed on C-130 tail by PAF is similar to what you posted.
dssd.JPG


THIS IS F-16 THREAD, AZM IS TO BE DISCUSSED ON AZM'S THREAD
 

TomCat

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With data link, and PL-15, to a "certain limit" YES. But a true "AS" fighter no.
J-10C can do that. It is built to do effectively as well even though it's a Multirole
 

CHI RULES

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If EF is dead now, how about we get 2-3 squadrons (in batches) of J-10C to serve as a highly customizable MW fighter, features that it can provide us compared to thunder (LW Fighter) would be more payload capacity, FADEC, Increased range, OBOGS, Customized ECM suite and possibly PL-21 (if J-10C could accomodate it that is most probably a no). We will have not a perfect but a very good response for Rafale and M2K
CFTs and thrust vectoring can also be made available in case of J10C
 

TomCat

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CFTs and thrust vectoring can also be made available in case of J10C
Just a theoretical question, after performing a TVC assisted turn, (and TVC use requires your jet to be below certain limit) wouldn't it take longer time to accelerate and regain momentum and acceleration after the turn with just a single engine compared to normally EFT, Flankers, Raptor using dual engines to compensate with that effect and thus accelerating faster ? The time it takes a single engine to recover after TVC would be enough to get it roasted in a WVR. Closely watch the video of J-10B performing TVC, as compared to SU-35. It takes a lot of time to regain speed.

SO TVC IS A BIG NO FOR SINGLE ENGINE, PLUS THE FREQUENT MAINTENANCE NEEDS
 

Mastankhan

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Yeh according to Sami it's first hand account by person who was sitting in meeting with IK and Shi my guess is probably Asif or Qureshi? Shi said take what u like and IK said these are expensive systems we pay U every single penny but Shi said that's not issue any thing u want u can have it if PAF gets J20 I won't be surprise then
Hi,

I had stated that comment years ago on another forum---and they went crazy---.

Pakistanis don't know how to talk to the chinese and how to ask them---.

Otherwise---whatever is in use of chinese military frontline---it is available to pakistan.
 

MystryMan

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I think PN should have at least a squadron of twin heavies(like J15) regardless of whether they are still under PAF but based in Gawadar or somewhere else around the coast.

Pak needs it to counter the massive IN. Together with those missile trucks(J15), coastal batteries, surface warships, submarines, and other assets like P3C, etc...PN should be able to keep IN at bay.

IMO an aircraft carrier is an overkill and not really needed...still there is a need for a potent air arm for PN bcuz of the IN.
PAF can do that task quite well since they are being operated from the mainland anyways. Also net-centric warfare and C4I make inter-services cohesion a cinch. Also PAF excels in it's tasks. PN may need time to get to that level of expertise.
starting with a heli carrier wont be bad - but that would mean amphibious Ops where as PM is treated like orphan by PN.
Why not create a maritime command under PAF(separate from southern command) it can liaison/coordinate with PAF but fully attached to PN ops and planning?
 

PewPew

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Why not create a maritime command under PAF(separate from southern command) it can liaison/coordinate with PAF but fully attached to PN ops and planning?
There are 2 parts to it.

1. A2/AD

2. Guarding the PN's ships

The PAF's maritime ops is primarily geared towards A2/AD, and it's a fairly simple role so long as the PAF and PN share the same situational awareness and targeting info (which is actually the case via the MilSoft NIXS.

The real question is guarding the PN's ships, MPAs and LRMPAs. If the PAF's maritime wing is completely geared towards supporting the PN, then it shouldn't be a problem. But as the PN adds more surface ships (and bigger surface ships) to its fleet, I can see it get a little antsy about not having an internal fighter wing. With Project Azm being what it is (twin engine with super-cruising), it wouldn't surprise me if the PN ends up pushing for its own aircraft carrier, especially once China puts its CATOBAR design in mass production.
 

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Let me throw some data at you to do some brain storming. I will mention Three Point of views to look at aircraft replacement for PAF, not just numbers. This is all food for thought. The replacement process may involve some or all or even none of below factors.

SQUADRON Line Up

For first point of view, lets go through a squadron line up.

Training:
No. 1 Sqn Rahbars K-8P
Number 18 and Number 20 are OCU squadrons used for training in F-7 aircrafts but im adjusting them under fighters.

Transport:
No. 6 Sqn Antelopes C-130
No. 10 Sqn Bulls Il-78 Midas
No. 12 Sqn Globe Trotters Airbus A310, Phenom 100, Gulf Stream IV
No. 21 Sqn Burraqs C-130

EW/AEW:
No. 3 Sqn Angels Saab 2000 Erieye
No. 4 Sqn Shaanxi ZDK-03
No. 24 Sqn Blinders Falcon DA-20

Fighters:
No. 2 Sqn Minhas JF-17 Thunder
No. 14 Sqn Tail Choppers JF-17 Thunder
No. 16 Sqn Black Panthers JF-17 Thunder
No. 26 Sqn Black Spiders JF-17 Thunder
No. 28 Sqn Phoenix JF-17 Thunder

No. 5 Sqn Falcons F-16C/D Block 52+
No. 9 Sqn Griffins F-16AM/BM Block 15 MLU
No. 11 Sqn Arrows F-16AM/BM Block 15 MLU
No. 19 Sqn Sherdils F-16A/B Block15 ADF
No. 29 Sqn Aggressors F-16

No. 7 Sqn Bandits Mirage IIIEA/DP ROSE I, Mirage EL
No. 8 Sqn Haiders Mirage 5VPA2/3 - PN
No. 15 Sqn Cobras Mirage IIIRP/EP, Mirage VPA,VDA,DR
No. 22 Sqn Ghazis Mirage IIIDF,IIIDA,EL,DL
No. 25 Sqn Night Strike Eagles Mirage 5VEF ROSE II, IIIDP
No. 27 Sqn Zarrars Mirage 5 ROSE III, VEF

No. 17 Sqn Tigers F-7PG
No. 18 Sqn Sharp Shooters F-7P
No. 20 Sqn Cheetahs F-7P
No. 23 Sqn Talons F-7PG

You can see 4 x F-7 Squadrons need replacement, then Mirage squadrons need to be replaced.
4 x Squadrons amount to roughly 72 aircrafts.
5 x Mirage squadrons are 90 aicrafts, these include specialist ROSE squadrons, which will be last ones to go,if they ever get replaced within next 2 decades.
1 x Naval Squadron -8th sqn - 18 aircraft.

Considerations:
1. So How many PAF squadrons can JF-17 replace?
2. How many can F-16 replace?
3. Should naval squadron be replaced by JF-17? or a completely new type of aircraft ?
4. How many more new squadrons should be raised ?


WING and BASE Configuration:

Now instead of squadrons, we can also go through wing to wing or bases. That might get too deep. But just have a look;
4 x Mirage Squadrons located at Rafiqui AFB under 34 Tactical Attack Wing in Shorkot
2 X Mirage squadrons located at Masroor AFB under 32 Tactical Attack Wing in Karachi

2 x F-7 squadrons are used for training at M M Alam Base under 37 Combat training Wing in Mianwali along with K-8 squadron.


The above configuration gives an idea that PAF may need to replace 4 Mirage squadrons with a Strike aircraft and since all are at same base (34 wing), so its possible that same type of aircraft has to be based there to replace all 4 squadrons.
Now can you speculate, which aircraft will be acquired by PAF that can replace 4 Squadrons.

Secondly, 2 x Mirage squadrons (7th Sqn and 8th Sqn)are based in karachi, out of which 1 Mirage squadron is dedicated for Naval role, flown by PN pilots. Second is used for attack role. There is another squadron (2 Sqn - JF-17) configured to support PN.
So:
1. Will this mean that 1 Mirage-V and 1 JF-17 squadron will remain in Naval support role OR will PAF give a third squadron to PN when it replaces the second Mirage squadron at this base ?
2. The Mirage-V squadron (8th Sqn) has only 12 aircrafts - If PAF gives an order for 24 aircrafts , would this mean that all 24 aircrafts can be used to replace these 2 Mirage squadrons and dedicated for Naval role only?
3. Should Mirage 7th Sqn be replaced by JF-17 and the 8th Sqn be given a new type of aircraft for Naval role.

Thirdly, 2 x F-7 squadrons are used for OCU role in a Combat Training Wing (37th Wing).
1. If PAF gets a new type of aircraft, will one squadron of that aircraft (lets say J-15) get based under this Wing ? And also what should happen to other F-7 Sqn ?
2. Should F-7 keep flying converted to LIFT role ?
3. Should PAF get a new LIFT aircraft ?

AIRCRAFT/SQUADRON ROLE

The third point of view is the role assigned to an aircraft or a certain Squadron.

MultiRole
No. 5 MR F-16 C/D Block 52+
No. 9 MR F-16 A/B
No. 14 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 16 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 19 AD/MR F-16 A/B Block 15ADF
No. 26 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 28 MR JF-17 Thunder

Operation Conversion Unit / Multi Role
No. 11 OCU/MR F-16 A/B

Tactical Attack
No. 7 TA Mirage-III ROSE I/Mirage V
No. 15 TA Mirage III/V
No. 25 TA Mirage -V ROSE II
No. 27 TA Mirage-V ROSE III

Maritime Support / Tactical Attack
No. 2 MR JF-17 Thunder
No. 8 TA Mirage V

Air Superiority
No. 17 AS F-7 PG
No. 23 AS F-7 PG


Operational Conversion Unit
No. 1 FCU K-8P
No. 18 OCU F-7 P
No. 20 OCU F-7 P
No. 22 OCU Mirage III


PAF uses F-16 for all kinds of role, so inducts it in Multirole Squadrons. JF-17's 14th Squadron was Air superiority squadron but converted to MR after F-7 was replaced with JF-17, which means JF-17 is considered as Multirole by PAF. Mirage III and Mirage V are mixed in few squadrons as they compliment each other, but Mirage is mainly used for attack role where as F-7 is used in air superiority role.

Considerations:
1. Which new aircraft type ( new or used F-16 or J-15) should be inducted in Air superiority squadrons?
2. Should TA or AS squadrons be converted to MR squadrons if more F-16s and JF-17 are inducted ?
3. Should be PAF get a dedicated strike aircraft for TA squadrons like J-15 ?
4. Should PAF assist PN in raising a Maritime strike squadron or retain 8th Sqn for under itself for Naval support?
5. Should AS squadrons get assigned to J-15 or EF, if these are inducted ? what other choice does PAF have for Air superiority aircraft ?
Hi,

This is all useless talk to make excuses for not doing anything---totally worthless---.

For a nation---who has a war declared against it since the 26th feb---the only questions need to be asked is---what aircraft can we get NOW that can hurt the enemy the most---what aircraft we can get NOW that brings most fear and concern in the enemy camp---which aircraft can hurt the most vulnerable enemy spots NOW---.

The poster has put so many twists and turns in that post that instead of getting the blade of the sword sharpened to be readied for combat---the poster has spun a web of confusion to get the participants entangled in indecision---.

And I see the high and mighty also fall for it as well---so tragic.
 
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Signalian

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Why not create a maritime command under PAF(separate from southern command) it can liaison/coordinate with PAF but fully attached to PN ops and planning?
Trying to separate PAF from PN - giving more freedom to PN to plan and execute its Ops.
 

Signalian

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can be an interim arrangement until PN can assume that role and to save separate Naval-AF infrastructure costs due to current tight budget.
PN has own Naval air bases like PNS Mehran in Karachi as well as Naval Air base in Turbat. Other PN bases may also have aircraft landing strips which can be extended.
 

Rashid Mahmood

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PN has own Naval air bases like PNS Mehran in Karachi as well as Naval Air base in Turbat. Other PN bases may also have aircraft landing strips which can be extended.
PN Naval aviation has 2 proper bases.
Mehran
Turbat

Has all facilities to operate from;
(FW & RW)

Ormara, Pasni & Gwadar.

RW
Jiwani, Keti Bandar, Shahbandar & JNB
 

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