Pakistan to get F16 -Blk70/72 | Page 86 | World Defense

Pakistan to get F16 -Blk70/72

Mastankhan

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Hi!
The indians latest naval fleet have israeli radars on board and, like the chinese aegis, they are calling them indian Aegis. Now, if that type of radar is installed on mast at 5m height, then it will be able to detect aircraft flying at height of 20 to 30 m at distance of 27 k.m as curvature of earth changes after that.
This is what I have learnt from different defence fora.
Now this has an implication and important one.
Actually for aircrafts, it is very easy to fly very low over seas but at the same time, it is way much easier to detect them because of absence of clutter.
Now, if by satelite imagery, if their ships can be located in arabian sea, then it will be easy to avoid them and reach south but without the help of satelites, it will be too risky to go for the SOUTH mission even if the aircrafts are flying too low.
hi

at 27 km the aircraft is toast. Seems like you missed it—-our missile range is190 km or farther.
We dont want to come close to the ships. They have ship to air missiles.
 

Gripen9

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but can India intercept every thing that fly 700-800 KM to its coat from Gujarat to Tamil Nadu ....???
If nothing, it will force India to delegate resources to defend areas they would have otherwise left undefended or lightly defended against air attacks.
 
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TomCat

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The company currently has a backlog of 30 F-16s, but anticipates orders for additional aircraft could increase its sales by at least another 60 examples, says Kenneth Possenriede, executive vice-president and chief financial officer of Lockheed Martin on the firm’s third quarter earnings call on 22 October.



The company just recently started building Bahrain’s first F-16 Block 70 aircraft, which is scheduled to be delivered before the end of 2021. The Middle Eastern country ordered 16 examples for $1.12 billion in 2018.

The Greenville facility will also handle production of 14 examples of the F-16 Block 70 for Slovakia. The US government is also negotiating Bulgaria's planned acquisition of F-16 Block 70 aircraft. And, in March 2019 the US State Department approved the possible sale of 25 new production F-16 Block 72 aircraft and F-16V upgrades for Morocco.

Besides countries that have already disclosed interest in the F-16, Possenriede did not explain where the additional orders would come from. Should more orders be signed Lockheed Martin anticipates increasing its production pace from one aircraft per month to up to three per month. The Greenville facility has capacity to produce up to four aircraft per month, the company says.

Possenriede nodded to Taipei’s interest in the F-16 and the US State Department’s approval of the possible sale, but did not name Taiwan as a prospective buyer. The deal is contested by China which views selling arms or helping Taiwan as challenging its claim that the self-ruled democratic country should be controlled by Beijing.

“There’s discussion about another country in the Far East that could want as much as 66 [examples of the F-16], and we will see where that goes,” Possenriede says of Taiwan’s interest.

Moreover, Lockheed Martin sees a big opportunity to sell the F-21 variant of the F-16 to India.
WIKIPEDIA

On 16 January 2019, the Bulgarian parliament approved the government's proposal to start negotiations with the US to purchase F-16V Block 70 aircraft. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of the possible sale on 30 May, identifying that aircraft as F-16C/D Block 70/72s and stating their price as $1.67 billion.However viewing the price being too high a lower price was offer after negotiations of $1.256 billion making a cost of just over $157 million per plane.The deal was vetoed by the Bulgarian President, Rumen Radev on 23 July 2019, citing the need to find a broader consensus for the deal, sending the deal back to parliament, but on 26 July the deal was again approved by parliament, overruling the veto, and this time was approved by Radev. The planes will be delivered by 2023-2024.

Used wiki as a quick source

So here are the calculations.

Already existing orders on LM :
= 30
16 For Bahrain
14 For Slovakia

Confirmed Sales :
Morocco = 25 New UNDER FMS/DSCA worth $3.79bn with supports, equipments. + $985.2mn to upgrade current 23 Block C/D 52s to Block 70/72 (JANE's ON Morocco F-16 a must read article, i will discuss below)


Now let's break down this. Aside from the pending 30 orders, they expect 60+, this plus before 60 is a very important one.

They have this order from morocca yet to be finalized (article of janes is contradicting the above article, jane's confirmed the sale, but not the same case in this article), of 25 units. 60-25 = 35

As per Sir @Khafee , We are looking for 36 New plus V upgrade. Bulgaria managed to get a deal of $1.256bn with $157mn for a single aircraft equating the deal to be for 8 units.

35+8 = 43
60-43 = 17

Now this 17 could be ours, could be not until we don't know what the Far East country is but whoever it is, wants 66+ as per article so that reference has got nothing to do with the 60+ expected above. 17*17 = 34

If this is 17 is for us, then we can expect our 70/72 deal to be in phases but our fleet upgradation to V standard could be with our first phase 17.
Bulgaria had to spend $985.2mn to upgrade 23 Block C/D 52s to 70/72 (15 Single / 8 Twin Seater)

Not taking into account the upgrade cost difference between single and twin, it costs around $42.3mn per Block 52 to be upgraded to V standard.

The upgrade features :

Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
  • UTC Aerospace Systems (UTAS)
  • DB-110 Tactical Reconnaissance Pods (TRPs)
  • Lockheed Martin AN/AAQ-33 Sniper pods
  • Exelis AN/ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suite (AIDEWS) podded electronic warfare (EW) systems.

Weapons listed include

  • Raytheon AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs)
  • Boeing GBU-38/54 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) kits
  • GBU-10/12/16/39/49/50 precision-guided bombs.
( Jane's article )

So a fleet of 76 Aircrafts ipgraded to V Standard will amount to AT LEAST $3.2bn plus the additional new 36 Block 70/72 = $5.65bn
totalling it to $8.8bn

Morocco is in a sort of similar situation like our's. It assists US in Iraq and Syria, now US has left Syria, let's see what becomes of the deal.

@Khafee @AliYusuf @Mangus Ortus Novem @Mastankhan @maxpane @HRK
 

Mastankhan

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Hi

here is the deal—-.

the US wants to trap india—-. It is giving india any incentive it wants to get an american fighter aircraft.

the indians are holding out and the US is getting desperate.

because without indian air force flying american fighters, the US has no total control over indian “sovereignty”—-.

the day india starts to get the american aircraft, it will become a target of “killswitch”.
 

AliYusuf

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WIKIPEDIA

On 16 January 2019, the Bulgarian parliament approved the government's proposal to start negotiations with the US to purchase F-16V Block 70 aircraft. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of the possible sale on 30 May, identifying that aircraft as F-16C/D Block 70/72s and stating their price as $1.67 billion.However viewing the price being too high a lower price was offer after negotiations of $1.256 billion making a cost of just over $157 million per plane.The deal was vetoed by the Bulgarian President, Rumen Radev on 23 July 2019, citing the need to find a broader consensus for the deal, sending the deal back to parliament, but on 26 July the deal was again approved by parliament, overruling the veto, and this time was approved by Radev. The planes will be delivered by 2023-2024.

Used wiki as a quick source

So here are the calculations.

Already existing orders on LM :
= 30
16 For Bahrain
14 For Slovakia

Confirmed Sales :
Morocco = 25 New UNDER FMS/DSCA worth $3.79bn with supports, equipments. + $985.2mn to upgrade current 23 Block C/D 52s to Block 70/72 (JANE's ON Morocco F-16 a must read article, i will discuss below)


Now let's break down this. Aside from the pending 30 orders, they expect 60+, this plus before 60 is a very important one.

They have this order from morocca yet to be finalized (article of janes is contradicting the above article, jane's confirmed the sale, but not the same case in this article), of 25 units. 60-25 = 35

As per Sir @Khafee , We are looking for 36 New plus V upgrade. Bulgaria managed to get a deal of $1.256bn with $157mn for a single aircraft equating the deal to be for 8 units.

35+8 = 43
60-43 = 17

Now this 17 could be ours, could be not until we don't know what the Far East country is but whoever it is, wants 66+ as per article so that reference has got nothing to do with the 60+ expected above. 17*17 = 34

If this is 17 is for us, then we can expect our 70/72 deal to be in phases but our fleet upgradation to V standard could be with our first phase 17.
Bulgaria had to spend $985.2mn to upgrade 23 Block C/D 52s to 70/72 (15 Single / 8 Twin Seater)

Not taking into account the upgrade cost difference between single and twin, it costs around $42.3mn per Block 52 to be upgraded to V standard.

The upgrade features :

Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
  • UTC Aerospace Systems (UTAS)
  • DB-110 Tactical Reconnaissance Pods (TRPs)
  • Lockheed Martin AN/AAQ-33 Sniper pods
  • Exelis AN/ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suite (AIDEWS) podded electronic warfare (EW) systems.

Weapons listed include

  • Raytheon AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs)
  • Boeing GBU-38/54 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) kits
  • GBU-10/12/16/39/49/50 precision-guided bombs.
( Jane's article )

So a fleet of 76 Aircrafts ipgraded to V Standard will amount to AT LEAST $3.2bn plus the additional new 36 Block 70/72 = $5.65bn
totalling it to $8.8bn

Morocco is in a sort of similar situation like our's. It assists US in Iraq and Syria, now US has left Syria, let's see what becomes of the deal.

@Khafee @AliYusuf @Mangus Ortus Novem @Mastankhan @maxpane @HRK
I think the V upgrades of the existing fleet will be a separate deal to be negotiated later.
 

TomCat

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Hi

here is the deal—-.

the US wants to trap india—-. It is giving india any incentive it wants to get an american fighter aircraft.

the indians are holding out and the US is getting desperate.

because without indian air force flying american fighters, the US has no total control over indian “sovereignty”—-.

the day india starts to get the american aircraft, it will become a target of “killswitch”.
And india has been playing well... Learning from neighbour's experiences, being the co-operator of killswitch used on us.
 

HRK

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Now this 17 could be ours,
No f-16 go underproduction for any country until the first instalment/down payment is paid to LM and this stage come after the approval by US congress ....those 17 could not be ours
So a fleet of 76 Aircrafts ipgraded to V Standard will amount to AT LEAST $3.2bn plus the additional new 36 Block 70/72 = $5.65bn
totalling it to $8.8bn
our F-16 blk-52 already configured with
- DB-110 Pod
- AN/AQ-33 sniper pod
- AN/ALQ-211 EW system
(source)
so these system would not be required for use in numbers might be just few more
 

Khafee

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WIKIPEDIA

On 16 January 2019, the Bulgarian parliament approved the government's proposal to start negotiations with the US to purchase F-16V Block 70 aircraft. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of the possible sale on 30 May, identifying that aircraft as F-16C/D Block 70/72s and stating their price as $1.67 billion.However viewing the price being too high a lower price was offer after negotiations of $1.256 billion making a cost of just over $157 million per plane.The deal was vetoed by the Bulgarian President, Rumen Radev on 23 July 2019, citing the need to find a broader consensus for the deal, sending the deal back to parliament, but on 26 July the deal was again approved by parliament, overruling the veto, and this time was approved by Radev. The planes will be delivered by 2023-2024.

Used wiki as a quick source

So here are the calculations.

Already existing orders on LM :
= 30
16 For Bahrain
14 For Slovakia

Confirmed Sales :
Morocco = 25 New UNDER FMS/DSCA worth $3.79bn with supports, equipments. + $985.2mn to upgrade current 23 Block C/D 52s to Block 70/72 (JANE's ON Morocco F-16 a must read article, i will discuss below)


Now let's break down this. Aside from the pending 30 orders, they expect 60+, this plus before 60 is a very important one.

They have this order from morocca yet to be finalized (article of janes is contradicting the above article, jane's confirmed the sale, but not the same case in this article), of 25 units. 60-25 = 35

As per Sir @Khafee , We are looking for 36 New plus V upgrade. Bulgaria managed to get a deal of $1.256bn with $157mn for a single aircraft equating the deal to be for 8 units.

35+8 = 43
60-43 = 17

Now this 17 could be ours, could be not until we don't know what the Far East country is but whoever it is, wants 66+ as per article so that reference has got nothing to do with the 60+ expected above. 17*17 = 34

If this is 17 is for us, then we can expect our 70/72 deal to be in phases but our fleet upgradation to V standard could be with our first phase 17.
Bulgaria had to spend $985.2mn to upgrade 23 Block C/D 52s to 70/72 (15 Single / 8 Twin Seater)

Not taking into account the upgrade cost difference between single and twin, it costs around $42.3mn per Block 52 to be upgraded to V standard.

The upgrade features :

Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
  • UTC Aerospace Systems (UTAS)
  • DB-110 Tactical Reconnaissance Pods (TRPs)
  • Lockheed Martin AN/AAQ-33 Sniper pods
  • Exelis AN/ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suite (AIDEWS) podded electronic warfare (EW) systems.

Weapons listed include

  • Raytheon AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs)
  • Boeing GBU-38/54 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) kits
  • GBU-10/12/16/39/49/50 precision-guided bombs.
( Jane's article )

So a fleet of 76 Aircrafts ipgraded to V Standard will amount to AT LEAST $3.2bn plus the additional new 36 Block 70/72 = $5.65bn
totalling it to $8.8bn

Morocco is in a sort of similar situation like our's. It assists US in Iraq and Syria, now US has left Syria, let's see what becomes of the deal.

@Khafee @AliYusuf @Mangus Ortus Novem @Mastankhan @maxpane @HRK
Please see the following:

Slovakia
F16 Blk70 - 14units @ $57.14m
Contract No-FA8615-19-C-6053
Lockheed Martin Corp., doing business as Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, Fort Worth, Texas, has been awarded a $799,955,939 firm-fixed-price incentive contract for F-16 aircraft production. This contract provides for the production and support of 14 Slovak Republic F-16 block 70 aircraft. Work will be performed at Greenville, South Carolina, and is expected to be completed by Jan. 31, 2024. This contract award involves 100% foreign military sales to the Slovak Republic. This award is the result of a Slovak Republic conducted competition. Foreign Military Sales funds in the amount of $799,955,939 are being obligated at time of award. The Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-19-C-6053).

Contracts For July 31, 2019
Contracts for July 31, 2019
***********************************************************************************
Bahrain
F16 Blk70 - 16units @ $70.28m
Contract No-FA8615-18-C-6058
Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas; and Lockheed Martin, Greenville, South Carolina, have been awarded a $1,124,545,002 fixed-price-incentive-firm contract for F-16 production. This contract provides for the production of 16 F-16 V Block 70 aircraft. Work will be performed in Greenville, South Carolina; and Fort Worth, Texas. The work is expected to be complete by Sept. 30, 2023. This contract involves 100 percent foreign military sales (FMS) to the Kingdom of Bahrain. This award is the result of a sole-source acquisition. FMS funds in the amount of $551,027,050 are being obligated at the time of award. Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-18-C-6058).

Contracts For June 22, 2018
Contracts for June 22, 2018
***********************************************************************************

For the other two countries, contracts have not been awarded to Lockheed, only DSCA notifications have been issued.

DSCA notifications, or total package prices include transportation, training, spares, ammo, targeting pods etc, hence obscure the actual per unit cost.

***********************************************************************************

DB-110 pod has a bigger brother the MS-110.

The MS-110 Pod operates on an infrared range larger than the DB-110 Pod. The MS-110 comprises a total of seven channels integrated into the single payload, including Visible and InfraRed technologies associated with legacy DB-110 but with the added benefit of being able to exploit Bands 1-7 across the Electro-Magnetic Spectrum (EMS).

The MS-110 is a fourth generation variant of its legacy DB-110 payload.

MS-110 payloads provide double the coverage area, of legacy solutions with more than three times information collection.
 

Mastankhan

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Hi

here is the deal—-.

the US wants to trap india—-. It is giving india any incentive it wants to get an american fighter aircraft.

the indians are holding out and the US is getting desperate.

because without indian air force flying american fighters, the US has no total control over indian “sovereignty”—-.

the day india starts to get the american aircraft, it will become a target of “killswitch”.
khafee

what do you say to that?
 

TomCat

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Please see the following:

Slovakia
F16 Blk70 - 14units @ $57.14m
Contract No-FA8615-19-C-6053
Lockheed Martin Corp., doing business as Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, Fort Worth, Texas, has been awarded a $799,955,939 firm-fixed-price incentive contract for F-16 aircraft production. This contract provides for the production and support of 14 Slovak Republic F-16 block 70 aircraft. Work will be performed at Greenville, South Carolina, and is expected to be completed by Jan. 31, 2024. This contract award involves 100% foreign military sales to the Slovak Republic. This award is the result of a Slovak Republic conducted competition. Foreign Military Sales funds in the amount of $799,955,939 are being obligated at time of award. The Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-19-C-6053).

Contracts For July 31, 2019
Contracts for July 31, 2019
***********************************************************************************
Bahrain
F16 Blk70 - 16units @ $70.28m
Contract No-FA8615-18-C-6058
Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas; and Lockheed Martin, Greenville, South Carolina, have been awarded a $1,124,545,002 fixed-price-incentive-firm contract for F-16 production. This contract provides for the production of 16 F-16 V Block 70 aircraft. Work will be performed in Greenville, South Carolina; and Fort Worth, Texas. The work is expected to be complete by Sept. 30, 2023. This contract involves 100 percent foreign military sales (FMS) to the Kingdom of Bahrain. This award is the result of a sole-source acquisition. FMS funds in the amount of $551,027,050 are being obligated at the time of award. Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8615-18-C-6058).

Contracts For June 22, 2018
Contracts for June 22, 2018
***********************************************************************************

For the other two countries, contracts have not been awarded to Lockheed, only DSCA notifications have been issued.

DSCA notifications, or total package prices include transportation, training, spares, ammo, targeting pods etc, hence obscure the actual per unit cost.

***********************************************************************************

DB-110 pod has a bigger brother the MS-110.

The MS-110 Pod operates on an infrared range larger than the DB-110 Pod. The MS-110 comprises a total of seven channels integrated into the single payload, including Visible and InfraRed technologies associated with legacy DB-110 but with the added benefit of being able to exploit Bands 1-7 across the Electro-Magnetic Spectrum (EMS).

The MS-110 is a fourth generation variant of its legacy DB-110 payload.

MS-110 payloads provide double the coverage area, of legacy solutions with more than three times information collection.
So these notifications could include morocco and PAF / Thai (Not likely or could very much be likely)

Wish i was a Genie, come out of your screen, give a hug and mithai ( Your preference, i like Khoya Khaja ) and vanish back in the screen.

I think the MS-110, you are talking about was to compensate for Block 60s IRST under-potential use problem ? Read somewhere, that IRST on Block 60 nose had a view problem or something, can't recall.
 

Khafee

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khafee

what do you say to that?
India understands the "kill switch" and is not touching it with a barge pole.

PLUS US does not allow other countries missiles to be used with its jets, there are exceptions though.
 

TomCat

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India understands the "kill switch" and is not touching it with a barge pole.

PLUS US does not allow other countries missiles to be used with its jets, there are exceptions though.
And india has been playing well... Learning from neighbour's experiences, being the co-operator of killswitch used on us.
You could have simply quoted me for the first line but you had to use the KEYBOARD.
The new exception have already been offered Block 70 and F-21 with development license and export license. The magical word that starts with B and ends with S (not talking Bulls**i), can have another host ? But F-16s can't carry such BS (impyling the Bull....)
 

Khafee

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So these notifications could include morocco and PAF / Thai (Not likely or could very much be likely)

Wish i was a Genie, come out of your screen, give a hug and mithai ( Your preference, i like Khoya Khaja ) and vanish back in the screen.

I think the MS-110, you are talking about was to compensate for Block 60s IRST under-potential use problem ? Read somewhere, that IRST on Block 60 nose had a view problem or something, can't recall.
The initial IRST had issues in the track part. That got solved, and now a 4th gen of the intial IRST that came in 2004 has been installed with the new Blk62 upgrades.

The MS-110 is a successor to the DB-110 and the two perform separate distinct roles.

The IRST is for A2A use, the DB-110/ MS-110 is for ground reconnaissance.

Btw a sniper pod can be very useful too in A2A

 
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