The One and Only True Qiblah (Center of Muslims)

I.R.A

MEMBER
Joined
Nov 21, 2017
Messages
494
Reactions
610 69
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
The purpose and intent of posting this thread is purely to have an academic debate and reach at an understanding of the complex sensitive issue, it is nowhere intended to offend sensitivities of any religious group, nor it is desired to force reader into believing that the content of this thread is the only truth. Readers / participants are expected to form their own well informed opinion on the matter and remain civil during the course of their argumentation.

Subject: The hot topic of Jerusalem and Muslim attachment with that city

Why Muslims consider Jerusalem to be their third holiest place? It’s mainly because of the Al Aqsa mosque or Bait Ul Muqadas. That mosque is believed by many Muslims to be their first Qiblah (The center of their focus, or the direction where they think they used to face while offering their prayers) and the starting point of Muhammad’s (Peace be upon him) journey to the skies, Muslims believe that Muhammad Peace be upon him was first taken to that Mosque where he lead the prayer congregation of all the Messengers (Peace be upon all of them) and then rode a heavenly steed/ horse (buraq) that took him into skies. Therefore we see Muslims perturbed whenever they are made to feel that they have no rights to that area or whenever they see it under occupation of people from any other religion.

How that place became so important for Muslims is purely based on the historical narratives and traditions. Though Quran mentions Al Aqsa once but it is interesting to note that Al Aqsa wasn’t even built then. Some say that the meaning of Al Aqsa is the farther Mosque (that is at a distance) and Quran referred to a Mosque in Madina when Muhammad Peace be upon him migrated from Makkah to Madina under the will and command of ALLAH. The camel which transported Muhammad Peace be upon him was named Qaswa meaning “One who takes to the remote destination”. Verse 17:1 of Quran is normally interpreted as Muhammad’s journey to skies during night, whereas other verses of Quran reveal that it wasn’t unique to Muhammad only who was ordered to travel at night, please refer e.g. 26:52, 20:77, 44:23, 15:65, 11:81.

Plus Most of the people think that “Al Aqsa ” refers to the current mosque “Al Aqsa ” in Jerusalem. Please note that the “AlAqsa” was built in 72 Century Hijra (AH) as inscribed on the foundation stone and accepted by all historian without any doubt or dispute. The name of the mosque was taken from Quran by Arabs. Quran did not take its name from the mosque. The Al-Aqsa Mosque was originally a small prayer house built by the Rashidun Caliph Umar (RA), but was rebuilt and expanded by the Ummayad caliph Abd al-Malik later.

Another interesting point to note is that most Muslims believe that five times prayer was made mandatory after Muhammad's this journey to skies. However the same traditions tell you that Muhammad Peace be upon lead a prayer congregation of all the Messengers (Peace be upon all of them) in Al Aqsa.

Anyhow moving forward to the main focus of this writing, that how is it that a non-existent Mosque became a Qiblah for Muhammad and Muslims of that time? Is it an inaccuracy which has slowly transformed into a firm belief, an inaccuracy that doesn’t find its basis in Quran.

My contention in this regard is backed by verses of Quran is that Muslims had only one Qiblah, Khana e Kaba from Start, the first (3:96) and the only, and no other Qiblah. It were Jews who knowingly changed the direction (2;130, 2;145, 3;98) ...... and when Muhammad Peace be upon him reinforced the focus to the original Qiblah through divine guidance (2:144) these same Jews objected that why they (Muslims) have changed the direction of Qiblah (2:142) ..... and it was also test of the newly converted Muslims (Ex Jews) to see how steadfast they are. You can read the following verses yourself and see if Bait Ul Muqadas is even ever mentioned as Qiblah in Quran. Muhammad Peace be upon would follow Ibrahim / Ismail and Ishaq (Peace be upon all of them) and not the people who had changed their scriptures intentionally and were hell bent on misguiding Muslims. When Muhammad Peace be upon him migrated to Madina he would look to sky in hope to get the good news of when he is getting back the custody of Sacred Mosque his father Ibrahim had built .....

[3:96] Indeed, the first House [of worship] established for mankind was that at Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.

[3:97] In it are clear signs: the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe Hajj to this shrine, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone.

[2:127] As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed): "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.

[2:129] "Our Lord, and raise among them a messenger to recite to them Your revelations, teach them the scripture and wisdom, and purify them. You are the Almighty, Most Wise."

[2:130] Who would forsake the religion of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.

[2:145] Even if you show the followers of the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your Qiblah. Nor shall you follow their Qiblah. They do not even follow each other’s' Qiblah. If you acquiesce to their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you, you will belong with the transgressors.

[3:98] Say, "O followers of the scripture, why do you reject these revelations of GOD, when GOD is witnessing everything you do?"


[2:144] We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.

[2:142] The fools among the people would say, "Why did they change the direction of their Qiblah?" Say, "To GOD belongs the east and the west; He guides whoever wills in a straight path."

[2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Ka`aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."

[10:87 ] And We inspired to Moses and his brother, “Settle your people in Egypt in houses and make your houses [facing the] qiblah and establish prayer and give good tidings to the believers.”

It doesn’t make sense for Muhammad to face to a non-existent mosque and say prayers and leave the first and only Qiblah built by his father Ibrahim, which was right in front of Muhammad's eyes in a city where he was raised and spent a significant time of his life.

I would like to inform my readers that I wholeheartedly support the cause of Palestinian people, they are the native people whose land has been snatched from them, but I find it difficult to support Muslim world in their fight for a place that is considered and made holy for Muslims through historical inaccuracies and man written traditions and stories. In recent times we remained silent when Palestinian children were slaughtered and they were thrown out of their homes and now we have waken up for a place only.

I would request the Muslim world to consider following verses and then durect fight for the rights of the Palestinians and not for Bait ul Muqadas only

"And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?" 4:75

"[They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah ." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might." 22:40

Thanks.

@khafee If you could please moderate the article and thread

@Hellhound @H!thchiker @Scorpion @Legend @SOUTHie

@Atalay
 

SOUTHie

MEMBER
Joined
Dec 8, 2017
Messages
93
Reactions
131 9
Country
India
Location
India
@I.R.A The question is do you consider Al Aqsa as a Holi site
I was never taught it's a Holi site, and Quran does not make any reference to the holiness of AlAqsa.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Scorpion

THINK TANK
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,042
Reactions
2,176 27
Country
Saudi Arabia
Location
Saudi Arabia
@I.R.A The question is do you consider Al Aqsa as a Holi site
I was never taught it's a Holi site, and Quran does not make any reference to the holiness of AlAqsa.
Interesting point. To answer this question is a nutshell No Al-Aqsa is not a holy nor sacred. It was later built in the blessed land of Palestine as described in the Quran 17:1.

Coming to topic we can answer this based on history and religious scriptures. We can also refer to the book of Genesis.

Jerusalem was built by an Arab tribe known as the Canaanites who migrated from the Arabian peninsula 4000 BC and named it Yabous known as Jebusite It was later that it changed to Yerushalayim which is also an Arabic name means Jerusalem, the city of Shalam/Salam or the city of peace.

In about 2000 years after the city was built Abraham PBUH migrated from Iraq to Jerusalem and from there the journey started.

The Death of Sarah
23 Sarah lived to be a hundred and twenty-seven years old. 2 She died at Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan, and Abraham went to mourn for Sarah and to weep over her.

3 Then Abraham rose from beside his dead wife and spoke to the Hittites.[a] He said, 4 “I am a foreigner and stranger among you. Sell me some property for a burial site here so I can bury my dead.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+23&version=NIV
As mentioned in Quran 3:67 Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists.

As well know after Abraham came Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon, Moses, Jesus and finally Mohammed PBU them all. All of those prophets were located in the blessed land of Palestine except Ismael and Mohammed PUBT.

There is no mention in the Quran whatsoever that Al-Aqsa is holy. Its said in the books of history that the Adam peace be upon him was the one who laid down the foundation of the mosque. But that contradicts the Quran 3:96 Indeed, the first House [of worship] established for mankind was that at Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.

However the surrounding of the Mosque is hold Muqadas as mentioned in Surah Al-isra verse 1 is blessed.

Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al- Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

So we need to differentiate between Holy, Sacred and Haram

Haram in Arabic means forbidden: No fighting, cutting trees, destroy, hunt is/are allowed. That only applies to Masjid Al-Haram and the Prophet mosque as mention in the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet.

29:67 Have they not seen that We made [Makkah] a safe sanctuary, while people are being taken away all around them? Then in falsehood do they believe, and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve?

3:97 In it are clear signs [such as] the standing place of Abraham. And whoever enters it shall be safe. And [due] to Allah from the people is a pilgrimage to the House - for whoever is able to find thereto a way. But whoever disbelieves - then indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.

28:57 And they say, "If we were to follow the guidance with you, we would be swept from our land." Have we not established for them a safe sanctuary to which are brought the fruits of all things as provision from Us? But most of them do not know.

Coming to the prophet mosque we can refer to the Hadith Sahih Muslim 1362


Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) as saying:

Ibrahim declared Mecca as sacred; I declare Medina, that between the two mountains, as inviolable. No tree should be lopped and no game is to be molested.

So to sum it up, we can say the first Qiblah was Al-masjed Al-haram of Makkah and the only Qiblah. As clearly mentioned in the Quran Surah Al-imran verse 96

Indeed, the first House [of worship] established for mankind was that at Makkah - blessed and a guidance for the worlds.

We can come to the conclusion that Al-Aqsa mosque is just like any other mosque except that it was build in the blessed land of Palestine where most of prophets lived. When Abraham was there before migrating to Makkah he did not build any mosque. Instead he was instructed to build the Kabbah by Almighty God in Makkah Al-Mukaramh as mentioned in the Quran Surah Al Baqarah 127 And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.

There are many places in the Quran referred to as holy for example

20:12 Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.

3:21 O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back [from fighting in Allah 's cause] and [thus] become losers."

But no where it says that the Holy Land is Palestine. In fact most historians agreed that the Levant is to be considered the Holy Land. Why was it considered Holy? Because It was purified from polytheism. Other historians say that Mount Tabor, Mount Sinai are the Holy Land. But there is mention about the Al-Aqsa being Holy at all.


Having said this doesn't mean Palestine doesn't belong to the Palestinians. In fact most of the jews living there now are those of Khazar descendent who migrated in the 8 century to Palestine. They have no ownership over the land. The Land was founded, established and built by Arabs period. You can refer to this book here for more information The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler
 
Last edited:

Scorpion

THINK TANK
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,042
Reactions
2,176 27
Country
Saudi Arabia
Location
Saudi Arabia
Excuse me? What's the rude comment I made? I asked him a question, and it's a very normal question "were you taught in detail about it in your Childhood". And in this part of the world, the term madresa is used for well-respected institution were I studied for more than 9 years. Also, I don't have a good command in the English language, so I don't know any other way to ask this question.
I also thought for a second that you used "Madrasa" as derogatory term. Madrasa is an arabic word that means "School".
 

Scorpion

THINK TANK
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,042
Reactions
2,176 27
Country
Saudi Arabia
Location
Saudi Arabia
How that place became so important for Muslims is purely based on the historical narratives and traditions. Though Quran mentions Al Aqsa once but it is interesting to note that Al Aqsa wasn’t even built then. Some say that the meaning of Al Aqsa is the farther Mosque (that is at a distance) and Quran referred to a Mosque in Madina when Muhammad Peace be upon him migrated from Makkah to Madina under the will and command of ALLAH. The camel which transported Muhammad Peace be upon him was named Qaswa meaning “One who takes to the remote destination”. Verse 17:1 of Quran is normally interpreted as Muhammad’s journey to skies during night, whereas other verses of Quran reveal that it wasn’t unique to Muhammad only who was ordered to travel at night, please refer e.g. 26:52, 20:77, 44:23, 15:65, 11:81.

Plus Most of the people think that “Al Aqsa ” refers to the current mosque “Al Aqsa ” in Jerusalem. Please note that the “AlAqsa” was built in 72 Century Hijra (AH) as inscribed on the foundation stone and accepted by all historian without any doubt or dispute. The name of the mosque was taken from Quran by Arabs. Quran did not take its name from the mosque. The Al-Aqsa Mosque was originally a small prayer house built by the Rashidun Caliph Umar (RA), but was rebuilt and expanded by the Ummayad caliph Abd al-Malik later.
Allow me to disagree here. Surah Al-Isra was a Makki Surah which was revealed in Makkah not in Madinah. Al-Aqsa Mosque was built before Umar Ibn Al-Khatab because it was mentioned in the Quran before Umar securing the city of Jerusalem. I refer you to Surah Al-Isra verse 1

Al-Aqasa was built by Abraham Peace be upon him 40 years later after building the Masjed-e-Haram which. According to the Hadith narrated by Abu Dhar al-Ghifari Sahih al-Bukhari 3366 (I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Which mosque was first built on the surface of the earth?" He said, "Al- Masjid-ul-,Haram (in Mecca)." I said, "Which was built next?" He replied "The mosque of Al-Aqsa ( in Jerusalem) ." I said, "What was the period of construction between the two?" He said, "Forty years." He added, "Wherever (you may be, and) the prayer time becomes due, perform the prayer there, for the best thing is to do so (i.e. to offer the prayers in time)

Other historians say that it was Suleiman / Solomon who laid the foundation of the mosque. However taken the above Hadith into account we can not rely on this considering the time period mention in the Hadith.

So there is no doubt whatsoever reading all history books of Imam Al-Tabri, Ibn Aljawazi, Ibn Katheer in his Tafseer..ect that Al-Aqasa is the one we know today.



Oh what a topic.\_/) So much heat|0|
 

I.R.A

MEMBER
Joined
Nov 21, 2017
Messages
494
Reactions
610 69
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
@I.R.A The question is do you consider Al Aqsa as a Holi site
I was never taught it's a Holi site, and Quran does not make any reference to the holiness of AlAqsa.
Bro all my writing is based on my belief that I consider Al Aqsa .... holy as much as I consider any other common mosque holy, and respect it like any other mosque. But I find it hard to accept the popular belief that Al Aqsa AKA Bait Ul Muqadas used to be Qiblah of Muslims prior to Khana E Kaba. The reason Muslim world is in pain today over Jerusalem news is because of this popular belief, they think that Jews have occupied the "holy" Bait Ul Muqadas ........ whereas I think that support for Palestinian cause should be irrespective of Al Aqsa and not because of Al Aqsa.


However the surrounding of the Mosque is hold Muqadas as mentioned in Surah Al-isra verse 1 is blessed.

Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al- Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing.
Then how do you explain Muslims facing Al Aqsa (because its also based on the same historic accounts)? Suppose Ibrahim Peace be upon him, 40 years after building Khana Kaba went to build Al Aqsa (that too in a region where he went as a stranger as had to buy property from people to bury his wife) .......... Logically the direction of Al Aqsa for saying prayers should be towards Khana e Kaba right? So why would Muhammad Peace be upon him face towards to a mosque that in turn is facing Khana Kaba ......... whereas Muhammad Peace be upon him lived in the city where Khana Kaba is. Again suppose that Al Aqsa was there and Muhammad Peace be upon him was taken there ......... what was the area covered by Al Aqsa? Why did historians skip these details because apparently Al Aqsa was renovated by Umayyads ........ then how did original Al Aqsa accommodate nearly 124,000 people?

I would tend to agree that the reference in 17:1 is to Madina ........ as it turned out to be full of blessing later on. Because Muhammad Peace be upon him took back custody of Khana Kaba but we don't find any proof of him or his first caliph having any plans to take custody of Al Aqsa (if it was present at all). It was only during Caliph Umer's (May ALLAH be pleased with him) time that Muslim armies marched towards Jerusalem. And if there was Aqsa present Umer won't be in situation where he denied a pastor or padre's invitation to say prayers in their church.


So there is no doubt whatsoever reading all history books of Imam Al-Tabri, Ibn Aljawazi, Ibn Katheer in his Tafseer..ect that Al-Aqasa is the one we know today.

Al - Tabri's work has been proven full of fake narratives and traditions, he has quoted Al Majhool people, no doubt Iranians have special love for Bait Ul Muqadas. He has distorted Islamic history and quoted work that was full of fairy tales.
 

SOUTHie

MEMBER
Joined
Dec 8, 2017
Messages
93
Reactions
131 9
Country
India
Location
India
I also thought for a second that you used "Madrasa" as derogatory term. Madrasa is an arabic word that means "School".
Woah! In SA too? In here, it's used for Islamic schools, particularly for children (And you see them in every corners of where a sizable Muslim pop is present. IMO it only becomes derogatory if a non-believer tries to take a dig at us using that term (with some innuendo), and now we ourselves find it derogatory is quite appalling.
 

Hithchiker

MEMBER
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
619
Reactions
741 28
Country
Pakistan
Location
Saudi Arabia
I agree with what you mentioned about the verses that should be the basis to fight for the cause of Palestine...But disagree on other issue "As i believed you are trying to portray that Muslims never pray to the direction of bait ul muqadas "..How would you explain this

"And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful."
Surat Al-Baqarah:143.

and then this
"We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do"
and This hadith From Anas (R.A) which is recorded in Sahih Muslim is saying this:
"Anas reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to pray towards Bait-ul-Maqdis, that it was revealed (to him):" Indeed We see the turning of the face to heaven, wherefore We shall assuredly cause thee to turn towards Qibla which shall please thee. So turn thy face towards the sacred Mosque (Ka'ba)" (ii. 144). A person from Banu Salama was going; (he found the people) in ruk'u (while) praying the dawn prayer and they had said one rak'ah. He said in a loud voice: Listen! the Qibla has been changed and they turned towards (the new) Qibla (Ka'ba) in that very state. "

Out of all the conquered territory Hazrat Umar only chose to travel to Jerusalem which indicates its importance...
Let me say it like this "First qiblah was/is Kabba but Muslims did used to pray towards bait ul muqadas until above verses were revealed..
 

Scorpion

THINK TANK
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,042
Reactions
2,176 27
Country
Saudi Arabia
Location
Saudi Arabia
Bro all my writing is based on my belief that I consider Al Aqsa .... holy as much as I consider any other common mosque holy, and respect it like any other mosque. But I find it hard to accept the popular belief that Al Aqsa AKA Bait Ul Muqadas used to be Qiblah of Muslims prior to Khana E Kaba. The reason Muslim world is in pain today over Jerusalem news is because of this popular belief, they think that Jews have occupied the "holy" Bait Ul Muqadas ........ whereas I think that support for Palestinian cause should be irrespective of Al Aqsa and not because of Al Aqsa.




Then how do you explain Muslims facing Al Aqsa (because its also based on the same historic accounts)? Suppose Ibrahim Peace be upon him, 40 years after building Khana Kaba went to build Al Aqsa (that too in a region where he went as a stranger as had to buy property from people to bury his wife) .......... Logically the direction of Al Aqsa for saying prayers should be towards Khana e Kaba right? So why would Muhammad Peace be upon him face towards to a mosque that in turn is facing Khana Kaba ......... whereas Muhammad Peace be upon him lived in the city where Khana Kaba is. Again suppose that Al Aqsa was there and Muhammad Peace be upon him was taken there ......... what was the area covered by Al Aqsa? Why did historians skip these details because apparently Al Aqsa was renovated by Umayyads ........ then how did original Al Aqsa accommodate nearly 124,000 people?

I would tend to agree that the reference in 17:1 is to Madina ........ as it turned out to be full of blessing later on. Because Muhammad Peace be upon him took back custody of Khana Kaba but we don't find any proof of him or his first caliph having any plans to take custody of Al Aqsa (if it was present at all). It was only during Caliph Umer's (May ALLAH be pleased with him) time that Muslim armies marched towards Jerusalem. And if there was Aqsa present Umer won't be in situation where he denied a pastor or padre's invitation to say prayers in their church.





Al - Tabri's work has been proven full of fake narratives and traditions, he has quoted Al Majhool people, no doubt Iranians have special love for Bait Ul Muqadas. He has distorted Islamic history and quoted work that was full of fairy tales.
I agree with what you mentioned about the verses that should be the basis to fight for the cause of Palestine...But disagree on other issue "As i believed you are trying to portray that Muslims never pray to the direction of bait ul muqadas "..How would you explain this

"And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful."
Surat Al-Baqarah:143.

and then this
"We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do"
and This hadith From Anas (R.A) which is recorded in Sahih Muslim is saying this:
"Anas reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to pray towards Bait-ul-Maqdis, that it was revealed (to him):" Indeed We see the turning of the face to heaven, wherefore We shall assuredly cause thee to turn towards Qibla which shall please thee. So turn thy face towards the sacred Mosque (Ka'ba)" (ii. 144). A person from Banu Salama was going; (he found the people) in ruk'u (while) praying the dawn prayer and they had said one rak'ah. He said in a loud voice: Listen! the Qibla has been changed and they turned towards (the new) Qibla (Ka'ba) in that very state. "

Out of all the conquered territory Hazrat Umar only chose to travel to Jerusalem which indicates its importance...
Let me say it like this "First qiblah was/is Kabba but Muslims did used to pray towards bait ul muqadas until above verses were revealed..

I have not claimed that it never happened. I think you missed the point that the first Qibla was built by Ibrahim al-Masjid al-Haram the Kabbah. The prophet and his companions when in Makkah used to face the Kabbah in direction of Al Aqsa at the same time and it was made temporary to test the faith of the Christians and Jews who claimed to follow the prophet as also justified in the verses to why that took place. Remember that Prayer was made obligatory in Makkah right after al isra wal miraj and before the migration to Madinah. When migrated to Madinah that was impossible to do I mean facing the Kabbah and AlAqsa at the same time as both are opposite of each other. Let's go back to the verse and I urge you to read them carefully.

And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful.

We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.

And if you brought to those who were given the Scripture every sign, they would not follow your qiblah. Nor will you be a follower of their qiblah. Nor would they be followers of one another's qiblah. So if you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, indeed, you would then be among the wrongdoers.


After reading this in order we come to know that the first Qibla was the Kabbah and the people of the book know that as it was revealed to them before the coming of the prophet but they went astray. Why was it temporary changed the justification is given in the first verse hi lighted in red.


Coming to back to Umar may allah be pleased with him he did prayed in Al Aqsa and rejected to pray in the church for the reason that he feared muslims may later size it.


Sorry I didn't go over this clarification yesterday as I didn't pay close attention what have been written.
 

I.R.A

MEMBER
Joined
Nov 21, 2017
Messages
494
Reactions
610 69
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
@Scorpion @H!thchiker Suppose if I agree that Muslims were facing Al Aqsa before they were given order to start facing Khana Kaba then how do we explain this


[10:87 ] And We inspired to Moses and his brother, “Settle your people in Egypt in houses and make your houses [facing the] qiblah and establish prayer and give good tidings to the believers.”

Were Moses, his brother and their people facing Al Aqsa or Khana Kaba? I say they faced Khana Kaba and the Jews later on changed the direction on their own ...... the reason Quran keeps telling them ..... People of Scripture you know the truth already and you still don't believe it. And that makes sense because Muhammad Peace be upon him reinforced the correct direction and these same Jews objected that why he has left our Qiblah and started a new Qiblah ......... whereas they already knew which one is the true Qiblah.
 
Last edited:

Atalay

MEMBER
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
340
Reactions
280 9
Country
Turkey
Location
Germany
Glorified be He Who took His servant (Muhammad) for a journey by night from the Sacred Mosque (at Makkah) to the Al-Aqsa Mosque (in Jerusalem), the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, in order that We might show him some of Our signs. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer. (Quran 17:1)

Set out deliberately on a journey only to three mosques: this mosque of mine [in Madinah], the Sacred Mosque [in Makkah], and Al-Aqsa Mosque [in Jerusalem]. (Al-Bukhari)


A prayer in the Sacred Mosque [in Makkah] is worth 100,000 prayers, a prayer in my mosque [in Madinah] is worth 1000, and a prayer in Jerusalem [Al-Aqsa Mosque] is worth 500 prayers more than in any other mosque. (Al-Bukhari)
 

Hithchiker

MEMBER
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
619
Reactions
741 28
Country
Pakistan
Location
Saudi Arabia
@Scorpion @H!thchiker Suppose if I agree that Muslims were facing Al Aqsa before they were given order to start facing Khana Kaba then how do we explain this


[10:87 ] And We inspired to Moses and his brother, “Settle your people in Egypt in houses and make your houses [facing the] qiblah and establish prayer and give good tidings to the believers.”

Were Moses, his brother and their people facing Al Aqsa or Khana Kaba? I say they faced Khana Kaba and the Jews later on changed the direction on their own ...... the reason Quran keeps telling them ..... People of Scripture you know the truth already and you still don't believe it. And that makes sense because Muhammad Peace be upon him reinforced the correct direction and these same Jews objected that why he has left our Qiblah and started a new Qiblah ......... whereas they already knew which one is the true Qiblah.
The Qur'anic verses referring to the change of Qiblah are all within the second chapter, Al-Baqarah (meaning the Heifer). One verse reads thus: "The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To God belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight." (2:142 from Abdullah Y. Ali's translation)
The Qibla al-Qudsiyya is the name given to a small sect of the Jews of Medina who converted to Islam in 622/623. When the qibla (direction of prayer for Muslims) was changed from Jerusalem (known in Arabic as al-Quds) to Mecca, these Jews protested and finally declined the change. They remained Muslims, but did not accept any of the verses in the Qur'an written after the date of the split. Little is known of the existence of these Islamic Jews afterwards.

I believe it's clear..Quran is much clear about change of Qiblah..As stipulated in previous post
 

Scorpion

THINK TANK
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,042
Reactions
2,176 27
Country
Saudi Arabia
Location
Saudi Arabia
@Scorpion @H!thchiker Suppose if I agree that Muslims were facing Al Aqsa before they were given order to start facing Khana Kaba then how do we explain this


[10:87 ] And We inspired to Moses and his brother, “Settle your people in Egypt in houses and make your houses [facing the] qiblah and establish prayer and give good tidings to the believers.”

Were Moses, his brother and their people facing Al Aqsa or Khana Kaba? I say they faced Khana Kaba and the Jews later on changed the direction on their own ...... the reason Quran keeps telling them ..... People of Scripture you know the truth already and you still don't believe it. And that makes sense because Muhammad Peace be upon him reinforced the correct direction and these same Jews objected that why he has left our Qiblah and started a new Qiblah ......... whereas they already knew which one is the true Qiblah.
Again dear brother as I mentioned above that Muslims in Makkah were praying facing the Kabbah in the same direction as Al-Aqsa.

Here is a little illustration

hqdefault.jpg


When the prophet migrated to Maddiah he was turning his face toward the heaven hoping that God will grants him what he wanted the Qibla of Abraham and then this verse was revealed.

We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.

Its very important to read the bolded part with care.

The verse you quoted doesn't contradicts what I said and FIY in the Arabic language the meaning is turn your houses into places for prayers facing the Kabbah of course as Pharaoh and his people were after them(Moses and his followers). So basically God ordered them not to pray in public that is the whole story.
 

Top