Turkey S-400 Dilemma

Timsah

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Hisar-A/O are short-range with max range of 25km, and neither are expected to enter into service until 2020 at earliest. Siper (Hisar-U) has a max range of 120km and is expected by the end of 2021 (but there is not much information about this system). S-400 range is 400km and S-300PMU2 range is 200km, so Hisar-U/Siper is still not a substitute for those systems.

Russia only a few years ago accepted to export the s-400 and 40N6E missile in particular, and s-500 isn't even in service with Russia, so I very strongly doubt that the s-500 will be exported any time in the next 10 years.
given Russia's current economic state, they may export the S-500 but like I mentioned before it's quite doubtful, I'm not saying it's going to happen but there might be a slight possibility.
though Ukraine is currently on an air defence system themselves (Dnipro) it might be quite possible to see Ukraine try to promote that to Turkey. we will wait and see.
 

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Erdogan says Turkey committed to Russian missile defense deal
June 4, 2019

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ISTANBUL (Reuters) - President Tayyip Erdogan said on Tuesday it was out of the question for Turkey to take a step back from its deal with Moscow to buy Russian S-400 missile defense systems.

Speaking to reporters after morning prayers, Erdogan also said an offer from the United States to sell Patriot missiles to Turkey was not as good as the Russian offer.

“There is a certain step that we took, there is an agreement here and we are committed to it,” Erdogan said of the deal with Moscow. “It is out of the question for us to take a step back.”

Turkey’s deal to buy the Russian S-400s, which could be delivered within weeks, has alarmed Washington and Turkey’s other Western NATO allies, who say the Russian system is incompatible with NATO’s defense network and poses a threat to U.S. F-35 fighter jets that Turkey also plans to buy.


Erdogan said Turkey had offered to set up groups with the United States to work together on the issue, without saying what Washington’s response had been. He also said Turkey had also been discussing a U.S. offer to sell Patriot missiles.

“However, unfortunately the U.S. side has not given us an offer as good as the S400s,” he said.

Reporting by Bulent Usta; Writing by Dominic Evans; Editing by Andrew Heavens


 

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Ankara: Turkey is ready to purchase US Patriot system after acquiring S-400 systems from Russia
Wednesday, June 5, 2019




Russia offered Turkey a better deal for the sale of its anti-missile systems than the United States, said Turkish leader Redep Tayyip Erdogan.

“There can be no talk of Turkey withdrawing from its deal with Moscow. We are in agreement, we are determined,” the newspaper Haberturk quoted Erdogan saying.

He added that Turkey would be ready to purchase US Patriots if the United States was able to offer a deal as lucrative as the one offered by the Russian Federation.

According to Reuters, Turkey’s deal to acquire Russian S-400s has long been troubling Washington and its other western NATO allies. They claim that the Russian system is incompatible with the Alliance’s defense system and poses a threat to the US F-35 fighter jets that Turkey is also planning to buy.

On May 22, the US government gave Turkey a choice between the Russian missile defense systems or the American aircraft. The ultimatum will expire soon. However, according to a representative from Turkey’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, “at the official level, there have been no discussions on the topic.” The ministry added that in March the United States renewed the deal to supply the Patriot missile systems, but the terms of the deal did not suit Ankara.

 

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Turkish pilots currently training in the United States must leave the country by July 31

View attachment 7644


U.S. Secretary of Defence Patrick Shanahan is taking significant steps toward cutting Turkey out of the F-35 fighter jet program over concerns about Ankara’s plans to purchase Russian S-400 missile system, telling his Turkish counterpart that pilots currently training in the United States must leave the country by July 31 and halting training for new students.

Turkey can still change its mind on purchasing the S-400 missile system, which is expected to arrive on Turkish soil as soon as this month, and the steps regarding F-35 training will be reversed, a senior U.S. defense official told Foreign Policy.


The United States already stopped delivery of F-35 parts and equipment to Turkey. Without the training provided by the United States military, future Turkish F-35 pilots will not be able to operate the jet, which will provide the bulk of tactical airpower for the United States and many of its allied militaries for decades to come.
 

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US gives Turkey ultimatum on Russian missiles
08 June 2019
06 hours ago
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Turkey has been given a deadline of the end of July to choose between buying US fighter jets and Russian anti-aircraft missile systems.

Acting US Defence Secretary Patrick Shanahan set out the ultimatum in a letter to his Turkish counterpart, Hulusi Akar.

Turkey, he said, could not have both America's F-35 advanced fighter jets and Russia's S-400 systems.

The two Nato allies have been locked in a row over the S-400 for months.

America argues that the Russian systems are both incompatible with Nato defence systems and pose a security threat, and wants Turkey to buy its Patriot anti-aircraft systems instead.

Turkey, which has been pursuing an increasingly independent defence policy, has signed up to buying 100 F-35s, and has invested heavily in the F-35 programme, with Turkish companies producing 937 of the plane's parts.

What consequences does Turkey face?
Mr Shanahan says in his letter that the US is "disappointed" to hear that Turkish personnel have been sent to Russia to train on the S-400.
"Turkey will not receive the F-35 if Turkey takes delivery of the S-400," he writes. "You still have the option to change course on the S-400."

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...and the S-400 missile system from Russia

The letter includes a schedule for winding down Turkish participation in F-35 pilot training.

Text of Shanahan letter to #Turkey on ending its participation in F-35 program over Russia S-400 acquisition. Mentions Congress support... pic.twitter.com/kKoUthyTjD
— Joyce Karam (@Joyce_Karam) June 7, 2019
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End of Twitter post by @Joyce_Karam

"We do not want to have the F-35 in close proximity to the S-400 over a period of time because of the ability to understand the profile of the F-35 on that particular piece of equipment," US Under Secretary of Defence Ellen Lord told reporters.

The first four F-35s due to be delivered to Turkey have still not left the US, officially to allow Turkish pilots to train in them in America.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Tuesday his country was "determined" to proceed with the S-400 deal.

"Unfortunately we haven't received a positive proposal from the American side on the subject of Patriots like the S-400s from Russia," he said.

Turkey has the second-largest army in Nato, a 29-member military alliance set up to defend against what was at the time the Soviet Union.

The head of Russia's state defence conglomerate Rostec, Sergei Chemezov, was quoted as saying on Friday that Russia would start delivering the S-400 to Turkey in "about two months".

What is the S-400 system?
The S-400 "Triumf" is one of the most sophisticated surface-to-air missile systems in the world.

It has a range of 400km (250 miles), and one S-400 integrated system can shoot down up to 80 targets simultaneously.
Russia says it can hit aerial targets ranging from low-flying drones to aircraft flying at various altitudes and long-range missiles.

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  1. Long-range surveillance radar tracks objects and relays information to command vehicle, which assesses potential targets
  2. Target is identified and command vehicle orders missile launch
  3. Launch data are sent to the best placed launch vehicle and it releases surface-to-air missiles
  4. Engagement radar helps guide missiles towards target
 

Eagle1

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No change in Turkey’s course on S-400 deal: Turkish officials
June 09 2019
ANKARA

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Turkish officials have told daily Hürriyet that there was no change regarding Turkey’s stance on an S-400 missile defense deal with Russia.

Their comments were in response to a question about the U.S. acting Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan’s letter to Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar that laid out the steps to remove Turkey from the F-35 training program.

The anonymous sources noted that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s has already said that the purchase from Moscow was a “done deal” and “there is no backtracking from that.”

The same sources said that “some of the U.S. institutions do not want to take into consideration” the issues that Erdoğan and his U.S. counterpart Donald Trump had previously mutually agreed on. They also said that Turkey’s suggestion of establishing a joint commission with the United States to examine the S-400 issue was “still on the table.”

Shanahan said in his letter sent to the Turkish Defense Ministry on June 7 that all Turkish pilots in the F-35 fighter jet program must leave the United States by July 31 and training for new pilots will be suspended.

The timetable would allow pilots currently training on the F-35 to complete their training and for other pilots to be reassigned to other posts, Shanahan said.

The letter said there were 34 students scheduled for F-35 training later this year.

“This training will not occur because we are suspending Turkey from the F-35 program; there are no longer requirements to gain proficiencies on the systems,” according to an attachment to the letter that is titled, “Unwinding Turkey’s Participation in the F-35 Program.”

In his letter, Shanahan also warned Ankara that its deal with Moscow risked undermining its ties to NATO, hurting the Turkish economy and creating over-dependence on Russia.

“You still have the option to change course on the S-400,” Shanahan wrote.

Tensions between the United States and Turkey have reached a fever pitch in recent months with Ankara set to begin receiving the advanced Russian surface-to-air missile system in July.

The United States has already suspended deliveries of parts and services related to Turkey’s receipt of the multi-million dollar jets.

Following protracted efforts to purchase an air defense system from the United States with no success, Ankara decided in 2017 to purchase Russia’s system.

U.S. officials advised Turkey to buy the U.S. Patriot missile system rather than the S-400 system, arguing that the Russian-made system would be incompatible with NATO systems and expose the F-35 to possible Russian subterfuge.

But Turkey has emphasized that the S-400 would not be integrated into NATO operability and would not pose a threat to the alliance.

Ankara said that it was Washington’s initial refusal to sell the Patriot missile system that led it to seek other offers, adding that Russia offered a better deal that included technology transfers.

Erdoğan said on June 4 the United States had yet to give Turkey an “offer as good as the S-400s.”

 

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US, Turkish defense chiefs to discuss S-400 row
12 June 2019
WASHINGTON- Anadolu Agency

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U.S. Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan said on June 11 he will discuss Washington's spat with Ankara over its purchase of Russia's S-400 missile defense system with his Turkish counterpart Hulusi Akar on June 12.

Asked if he had received any response from Akar on the issue, he said the two sides could update each other on developments during today's phone call.

"I'm hoping tomorrow for he and I to exchange views and get an update on what kind of progress we've made. That's really all I have to update you on," he told reporters.

His remarks came ahead of his meeting with Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Blaszczak at the Pentagon.

Shanahan said last week in a letter to Akar that the F-35 fighter jet training program for Turkish pilots would end July 31, giving the pilots enough time to complete their training. However, this action will cut things short.

"We've suspended some of the activities in terms of training. We haven't suspended any of the maintenance activity," he added.

But the Pentagon said June 11 that the U.S. Air Force has halted ongoing training of Turkish pilots on the F-35 before the end date for "safety" concerns.

The actions are the latest in a series of moves by the U.S. to try to remove Turkey from the F-35 program amid a standoff with its NATO ally over the purchase of Russian S-400 system.

Following protracted efforts to purchase an air defense system from the U.S. with no success, Ankara decided in 2017 to purchase Russia's system.

U.S. officials argued it would be incompatible with NATO systems and expose the F-35 to possible Russian subterfuge, but Turkey has emphasized that the S-400 would not be integrated into NATO operability and would not pose a threat to the alliance.

Ankara said it was Washington's initial refusal to sell its Patriot missile system that led it to seek other offers, adding Russia offered a better deal that included technology transfers

 

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Russia plans to deliver S-400 missiles to Turkey within weeks
"There is no future for Turkey having both Russian weapons and American F-35s," the chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs said.
June 12, 2019,
By Reuters
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A S-400 surface-to-air missile system during a parade in Novosibirsk, Russia.Alexandr Kryazhev / Sputnik via AP file


MOSCOW — Russia said on Tuesday it plans to deliver its S-400 missile defense systems to Turkey in July, setting the clock ticking on a U.S. threat to hit Ankara with sanctions if it goes ahead with a deal that has strained ties between the NATO allies.
Turkey and the United States have sparred publicly for months over Ankara's order for the S-400s, which are not compatible with the transatlantic alliance's systems.

Washington has threatened to remove Turkey from its F-35 fighter jet program unless it drops the deal, and has set its own deadline of July 31. If Ankara accepts delivery of the S-400s, that would trigger U.S. sanctions that could prolong Turkey's economic recession and prompt a re-evaluation of its 67-year membership of NATO.

Turkey said that a U.S. House of Representatives' resolution on Monday condemning the S-400 purchase and urging sanctions was unacceptably threatening.

Later on Tuesday in Moscow, Kremlin aide Yury Ushakov told reporters: "The agreements reached between Russia and Turkey are being fulfilled on time in the given context. There are no bilateral problems."

Asked if the surface-to-air missiles will be delivered in July, he said: "Yes, that's what we plan somehow."

The comments came days after the head of Russian state conglomerate Rostec, Sergei Chemezov, said Moscow would start delivering the S-400s to Turkey in two months. Turkish officials have said the delivery could take place as soon as June.

The U.S. resolution, introduced in May and entitled "Expressing concern for the United States-Turkey alliance," was agreed in the House on Monday.

It urges Turkey to cancel the S-400 purchase and calls for sanctions if Ankara accepts their delivery. That, the resolution said, would undermine the U.S.-led transatlantic defense alliance.

In response, Turkey's Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday that its foreign policy and judicial system were being maligned by "unfair" and "unfounded" allegations in the resolution.

"It is unacceptable to take decisions which do not serve to increase mutual trust, to continue to keep the language of threats and sanctions on the agenda and to set various artificial deadlines," it added in a statement.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's government faces a balancing act in its ties with the West and Russia, with which it has close energy ties and is also cooperating in neighboring Syria.

The United States is also pressuring Turkey and other nations to isolate Iran, including blocking oil exports.

U.S. officials said on Monday the training of Turkish pilots on F-35 fighter jets had come to a faster-than-expected halt at an air base in Arizona, as Ankara's involvement was wound down over the S-400 controversy.

The United States says Turkey's acquisition of Russia's S-400 air defenses poses a threat to Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 stealth fighters, which Turkey also plans to buy.

"We rarely see it in foreign affairs, but this is a black and white issue. There is no middle ground. Either Mr. Erdogan cancels the Russian deal, or he doesn't," Eliot Engel, chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, said on the House floor on Monday.

"There is no future for Turkey having both Russian weapons and American F-35s. There's no third option," he said.

Turkey appeared set to move ahead with the S-400 purchase despite the U.S. warnings. Erdogan said last week it was "out of the question" for Turkey to back away from its deal with Moscow

 

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Turkey Vows Retaliation if US Imposes Sanctions over S-400 Deal
Friday, 14 June, 2019
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Russian S-400 Triumph medium-range and long-range surface-to-air missile systems drive during a Victory Day parade at Red Square in Moscow, Russia, May 9, 2016. (Reuters)

Asharq Al-Awsat

Turkey vowed on Friday to retaliate against the United States should it impose sanctions over its purchase of the S-400 missile defense system from Russia.

“If the United States takes any negative actions towards us, we will also take reciprocal steps,” Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said when asked about possible US sanctions in an interview broadcast on Turkish TV.

“We are determined on the S-400 issue. No matter what the results will be, we will not take a step back,” he remarked, adding it is impossible to cancel the order.

Ankara and Washington have sparred publicly for months over Turkey’s purchase of the S-400 missile systems. Washington has said that would trigger US sanctions and sent a letter warning that Ankara would be pulled out of the F-35 jet program.

The Turkish lira weakened to as far as 5.93 against US dollar after the comment, to its weakest level in two weeks.

The S-400s are not compatible with NATO’s defense systems and Washington says they would compromise its F-35s, which Turkey also plans to buy. Turkey has proposed that the allies form a working group to asses the impact of the S-400s, but has yet to receive a response from the United States.

US Acting Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan last week sent his Turkish counterpart a letter warning that Ankara would be pulled out of the F-35 jet program unless it changes course from its plans to install the defenses.

Cavusoglu said Thursday no one can give Turkey ultimatums.

“Turkey will not back down from its decisions with these kinds of letters,” he said. “Turkey bought S-400, it is going to be delivered and stationed in Turkey.”

A day earlier, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that Turkey had completed the deal with Russia and that the systems will be delivered in July. Moscow has said it will begin the delivery of the systems in July.

Erdogan also said that Ankara would challenge its potential removal from the F-35 program on every platform and hold those who exclude Turkey accountable.

 

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Turkey's Erdogan sees Russian S-400s delivery starting in July: NTV
16 June 2019

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FILE PHOTO: Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan addresses bussiness people during a meeting in Ankara, Turkey, May 2, 2019. Kayhan Ozer/Presidential Press Office/Handout via REUTERS

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said he expected Russian S-400 missile defense systems to start arriving in Turkey in the first half of July, broadcaster NTV reported on Sunday, a development set to fuel tensions with NATO ally Washington.

The S-400s are not compatible with NATO’s systems and have been a growing source of discord between Turkey and the United States in recent months.

“We discussed the S-400 subject with Russia. Indeed the S-400 issue is settled,” Erdogan was cited as telling reporters on his plane returning from a visit to Tajikistan, where he attended a summit and met Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“I think they will start to come in the first half of July,” he added, giving a more specific forecast than he has in the past.

U.S. acting Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan this month outlined how Turkey would be pulled out of the F-35 fighter jet program unless Ankara changed course from its plans to buy the missile systems.

Erdogan said he would discuss the issue with U.S. President Donald Trump when they meet at this month’s G-20 summit.

“When someone lower down says different things, then we immediately make contact with Mr Trump and try to solve issues with telephone diplomacy. Matters don’t take long there,” he said.

Reporting by Daren Butler; Editing by Raissa Kasolowsky

 

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US, Turkey remain in dialogue over S-400 dispute: Top NATO general
LE BOURGET- Reuters
June 18 2019

View attachment 8215

U.S. Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan and his Turkish counterpart Hulusi Akar remain in contact about Ankara's plans to buy a Russian air defense system, and may meet during NATO meetings in Brussels next week, NATO's commander told Reuters.

U.S. General Tod Wolters said the military-to-military relationship between the United States and NATO remained "absolutely, positively solid," despite Washington's decision to cancel Turkey's purchase of F-35 stealth fighters if it proceeds with its purchase of the Russian S-400 air defense system.

"I know there'll be follow on dialogue to work on ... details between Minister Akar and Secretary Shanahan. As a matter of fact there may the opportunity to meet next week at the ministerials in NATO," Wolters said at the Paris Airshow.

 

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Trump Weighs New Sanctions on Turkey Over Russian Missiles

The Trump administration is weighing three sanctions packages to punish Turkey over its purchases of the Russian S-400 missile-defense system, according to people familiar with the matter.

The most severe package under discussion between officials at the National Security Council and the State and Treasury departments would all but cripple the already troubled Turkish economy, according to three people familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing internal deliberations.

Any of the options would come on top of the months-old U.S. pledge to cut off sales of the F-35 jet to Turkey if President Recep Tayyip Erdogan keeps his vow to buy the Russian system.

The idea with the most support for now is to target several companies in Turkey’s key defense sector under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, or CAATSA, which targets entities doing business with Russia. Such sanctions would effectively sever those companies from the U.S. financial system, making it almost impossible for them to buy American components or sell their products in the U.S.

The Turkish lira was trading 0.6% weaker against the dollar as of 12:05 p.m. in Istanbul, after falling as much 1.5% to 5.9171 on the news earlier Wednesday. Bonds and stocks fell, with the yield on 10-year government debt jumping 38 basis points to 18%. The benchmark Borsa Istanbul 100 Index was poised for its first loss in four days.

 

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Turkey unafraid of US sanctions over S-400 deal: Foreign minister
Updated 7 sec ago
AFP
June 24, 2019
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A Russian serviceman walks past S-400 missile air defence systems before a parade marking the anniversary of the victory over Nazi Germany in World War Two, in central Moscow, Russia April 29, 2019. (Reuters/File Photo)

  • US has given Turkey a deadline of July 31 to drop the purchase
  • Relations between Washington and Ankara have deteriorated over multiple issues
ANKARA: Turkey said Monday it does not fear US sanctions over its decision to buy a Russian missile defense system that has frayed ties between the NATO allies.

The US has given Turkey a deadline of July 31 to drop the purchase of the S-400 system, or face sanctions and removal from its F-35 fighter jet program.

“Regardless of whatever sanctions there may be, whatever the messages from America, we’ve bought the S-400,” Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu told reporters in Ankara.

He said Turkey was working on the date for the system’s delivery, which President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said would be in the first half of July.
“If there’s an attack on Turkey tomorrow, we cannot expect NATO to protect us because NATO’s capacity would only protect 30 percent of Turkey’s airspace,” Cavusoglu said.

Turkey will no longer allow other countries to dictate its defense purchases, he said.

Relations between Washington and Ankara have deteriorated over multiple issues, including the S-400 deal and US support for a Syrian Kurdish militia viewed as terrorists by Turkey.

Sanctions could cause damage at a time when Turkey’s economy is already struggling.

Its currency lost a third of its value last year, in part due to temporary US sanctions over the detention of an American pastor.

Turkey has plans to buy 100 F-35s, and has lucrative contracts to build parts of the jet.

Erdogan said last week he would use his “good” relationship with US counterpart Donald Trump to defuse the crisis when they meet at the G20 summit in Osaka, Japan this week.

 

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Turkey will lose F-35 warplane if Russia arms deal goes ahead, U.S. says
June 25, 2019
Robin Emmott
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FILE PHOTO: A Lockheed Martin F-35 aircraft is seen at the ILA Air Show in Berlin, Germany, April 25, 2018.
REUTERS/Axel Schmidt/File Photo



BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The United States will stop Turkish forces flying and developing its F-35 stealth jets if Ankara goes ahead with the purchase of a Russian air defense system, the U.S. envoy to NATO said on Tuesday.

Washington and its allies have urged fellow NATO member Ankara not to install the S-400 Russian system, saying that would let the technology learn how to recognize the jets, which are built to avoid tracking by enemy radars and heat sensors.

But Turkey’s President Tayyip Erdogan has refused to budge, exacerbating a diplomat rift already widening over conflicting strategy in Syria, Iran sanctions and the detention of U.S. consular staff.

“Everything indicates that Russia is going to deliver the system to Turkey and that will have consequences,” the U.S. Ambassador to NATO, Kay Bailey Hutchison, told reporters in Brussels.

“There will be a disassociation with the F-35 system, we cannot have the F-35 affected or destabilized by having this Russian system in the alliance,” she said.

The United States says the jets, made by Lockheed Martin Corp., give NATO forces a number of technological advantages in the air, including the ability to disrupt enemy communications networks and navigation signals.

Turkey produces parts of the F-35s fuselage, landing gear and cockpit displays. Hutchison said Ankara was an important partner in that production but that security concerns about Russia were paramount.

“So many of us have tried to dissuade Turkey,” she said.

The Pentagon has already stopped training Turkish pilots on the jets.

Erdogan is expected to discuss the issue with U.S. President Donald Trump at the G20 summit in Japan this week. One senior NATO diplomat said that was probably the last chance of finding a way out.

NATO defense ministers, who meet for two days in Brussels from Wednesday, are not planning to formally raise the issue, but there could be some diplomacy in informal meetings, diplomats said.

“It’s not over until its over, but so far Turkey has not appeared to retract from the sale,” Hutchison. “The consequences will occur, we don’t feel there’s a choice in that.”

Reporting by Robin Emmott; Editing by Alissa de Carbonnel and Andrew Heavens


 

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Russia to deliver first S-400 missile to Turkey in July: reports
Reuters
June 26, 2019

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Above, Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile launching system on display in this file photo taken on August 22, 2017. (AFP)

  • ‘We are making first delivery in July as part of out plans’
MOSCOW: Russia will make first delivery of the S-400 missile systems to Turkey in July, Russian news agencies cited the head of Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport saying on Wednesday, in accordance with the earlier-stated plans.

“We are making first delivery in July as part of out plans,” Alexander Mikheev is quoted as saying by RIA news agency.

The plans of Turkey, a NATO member, have irked Washington, which threatened with sanctions against Ankara if it goes ahead with the purchase.

 

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