WDF Exclusive - PAF signs contract for 9 C130J | Page 20 | World Defense

WDF Exclusive - PAF signs contract for 9 C130J

TomCat

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Oct 11, 2019
Messages
1,688
Reactions
4,796 153 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Tell tale sign is the 6 blade curved Dowty propeller versus 4 blade on E/H models. But that is hard to see in flight.
Impossible to differentiate unless a Super hercules
 

Scorpion

THINK TANK: SENIOR
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,868
Reactions
3,201 56 0
Country
Saudi Arabia
Location
Saudi Arabia
How many are you guys getting?
 

DHsquare

MEMBER
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
86
Reactions
219 2 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
How many are you guys getting?
10 were retired so I guess the entire lot will b picked up by paf to bring into service thise that can b salvaged while putting remaining into spares usage.
Plus there's a dedicated c130 overhauling setup as well under kamra.
If someone more learned can shed some light on their workings so it'll b great for all of us here. Thanks.
 

Gripen9

THINK TANK
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,413
Reactions
5,228 245 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
USA
10 were retired so I guess the entire lot will b picked up by paf to bring into service thise that can b salvaged while putting remaining into spares usage.
Plus there's a dedicated c130 overhauling setup as well under kamra.
If someone more learned can shed some light on their workings so it'll b great for all of us here. Thanks.
8 are airworthy. 2 older Es will be used for spares.
But the 8 Hs have a lot of airframe life left. With a SLEP they can be flying well into 2040s.
I think these are being acquired to replace our babas. older B/Cs we initially got in 1957!
 

Scorpio

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
1,661
Reactions
3,013 66 0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
8 are airworthy. 2 older Es will be used for spares.
But the 8 Hs have a lot of airframe life left. With a SLEP they can be flying well into 2040s.
I think these are being acquired to replace our babas. older B/Cs we initially got in 1957!
Something is better then nothing
 

Bayernulan

MEMBER
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Messages
65
Reactions
15 0 0
Country
Germany
Location
China
Not trying to be offensive or provoking an issue at all - but genuinely interested:

Aside from certain people making some "extra" money, is there a specific reason as to why Pakistan still relies or is willing to purchase US equipment?
 

Cookie Monster

THINK TANK
Joined
Oct 11, 2019
Messages
440
Reactions
1,568 76 0
Country
USA
Location
USA
Not trying to be offensive or provoking an issue at all - but genuinely interested:

Aside from certain people making some "extra" money, is there a specific reason as to why Pakistan still relies or is willing to purchase US equipment?
It is generally easier and more cost effective to upgrade to the same type of equipment than to make sweeping changes. We can use the C130 as an example. It is a reliable aircraft(as evident by its long history of service around the world and still continuing). Pakistan has a history of operating it. There's infrastructure in place to support it, there's pilots trained on it, tactics/strategies built around the specific aircraft and its role.

Changing all that means changing everything...which would incur an additional cost...not to mention the reliability would remain in question(until it is established again...which just takes time and up until then it would remain a gamble).

So while the political stuff does often get in the way...there are valid reasons why Pakistan continues to stick with systems it has a history of operating. It's not just Pakistan...u would see this among other armed forces as well. Any major changes that do happen...happen rather slow.
 

Bayernulan

MEMBER
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Messages
65
Reactions
15 0 0
Country
Germany
Location
China
It is generally easier and more cost effective to upgrade to the same type of equipment than to make sweeping changes. We can use the C130 as an example. It is a reliable aircraft(as evident by its long history of service around the world and still continuing). Pakistan has a history of operating it. There's infrastructure in place to support it, there's pilots trained on it, tactics/strategies built around the specific aircraft and its role.

Changing all that means changing everything...which would incur an additional cost...not to mention the reliability would remain in question(until it is established again...which just takes time and up until then it would remain a gamble).

So while the political stuff does often get in the way...there are valid reasons why Pakistan continues to stick with systems it has a history of operating. It's not just Pakistan...u would see this among other armed forces as well. Any major changes that do happen...happen rather slow.
Thanks for your reply.
That it is generally easier and more cost effective to upgrade to the same type of equipment or that the C-130 has a formidable record is understood.
It's just when looking upon their present inventory, aside from the F-16, a hand full of Bell's and the C-130 - there isn't AFAIK any other modern US equipment.

They have gone into great length to produce an own aircraft JF-17, and went onto Russian/Chinese IL-78 tankers. The Mirage (and the F-16 fleet) are being replaced by J-10's and most likely J-16's. My guess is that the USA won't be willing to supply the PAF with modern F-16's. Even taking cost's into account a change towards e.g. Russian or Chinese C-130 equivalents - won't cost more - rather less.

And I could very well imagine that the recent "cuddling up" between the USA and India is making them rather uncomfortable.

But okay - maybe the Pakistan government is more "relaxed" when it comes to "just" a transport aircraft.
 
Last edited:

Cookie Monster

THINK TANK
Joined
Oct 11, 2019
Messages
440
Reactions
1,568 76 0
Country
USA
Location
USA
Thanks for your reply.
That it is generally easier and more cost effective to upgrade to the same type of equipment or that the C-130 has a formidable record is understood.
It's just when looking upon their present inventory, aside from the F-16, a hand full of Bell's and the C-130 - there isn't AFAIK any other modern US equipment.

They have gone into great length to produce an own aircraft JF-17, and went onto Russian/Chinese IL-78 tankers. The Mirage (and the F-16 fleet) are being replaced by J-10's and most likely J-16's. My guess is that the USA won't be willing to supply the PAF with modern F-16's. Even taking cost's into account a change towards e.g. Russian or Chinese C-130 equivalents - won't cost more - rather less.

And I could very well imagine that the recent "cuddling up" between the USA and India is making them rather uncomfortable.

But okay - maybe the Pakistan government is more "relaxed" when it comes to "just" a transport aircraft.
Not true...the rather few US defense equipment u listed are just the major items...
...there's plenty of US made stuff that Pakistan has(slowly it's becoming less so over the decades)...stuff like radars, artillery(M109s and M110s), M113 IFV, etc. Some of these...US is no longer using...or exercises less control over and Pakistan has been producing them locally(modifying as necessary) without any raised eyebrows from the US(M113 being an example). The fact is that Pakistan has historically relied on mainly western suppliers for the needs of its armed forces(US being the biggest among them). It mostly stemmed from the cold war days...India was largely in the USSR camp while Pakistan was in the US camp...which naturally built a reliance on US over decades(just like how India ended up with largely Russian defense equipment). It's not easy to switch over decades worth of experience and training...along with large chunks of equipment over night. It takes a long time...and slowly Pakistan's armed forces have started stepping away from US origin/US controlled equipment when possible. Yes there probably exist issues of kickbacks and just straight up bad decisions for some personal gain...but overall there's bigger reasons at play as highlighted above.

P.S. IL78 is reportedly not as reliable. F16 fleet is not being replaced by J10s in the normal sense of replacement...PAF would try to keep each and every F16 airborne for as long as possible(they would even go to US for more if it's doable). A change to Russian/Chinese equivalents of C130s would definitely not cost less and then there's the issue of reliability. The only thing I can see happening in the event US totally cuts off C130s would be possibly some Y9(China) variant...but until the C130s are an option from the US...those make the most sense(logistically and financially).
 

Bayernulan

MEMBER
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Messages
65
Reactions
15 0 0
Country
Germany
Location
China
Not true...the rather few US defense equipment u listed are just the major items...
...there's plenty of US made stuff that Pakistan has(slowly it's becoming less so over the decades)...stuff like radars, artillery(M109s and M110s), M113 IFV, etc. Some of these...US is no longer using...or exercises less control over and Pakistan has been producing them locally(modifying as necessary) without any raised eyebrows from the US(M113 being an example). The fact is that Pakistan has historically relied on mainly western suppliers for the needs of its armed forces(US being the biggest among them). It mostly stemmed from the cold war days...India was largely in the USSR camp while Pakistan was in the US camp...which naturally built a reliance on US over decades(just like how India ended up with largely Russian defense equipment). It's not easy to switch over decades worth of experience and training...along with large chunks of equipment over night. It takes a long time...and slowly Pakistan's armed forces have started stepping away from US origin/US controlled equipment when possible. Yes there probably exist issues of kickbacks and just straight up bad decisions for some personal gain...but overall there's bigger reasons at play as highlighted above.

P.S. IL78 is reportedly not as reliable. F16 fleet is not being replaced by J10s in the normal sense of replacement...PAF would try to keep each and every F16 airborne for as long as possible(they would even go to US for more if it's doable). A change to Russian/Chinese equivalents of C130s would definitely not cost less and then there's the issue of reliability. The only thing I can see happening in the event US totally cuts off C130s would be possibly some Y9(China) variant...but until the C130s are an option from the US...those make the most sense(logistically and financially).
Yes in regards to ground/Army related equipment - there is a lot of US (quite old) equipment.
India is in a tricky situation due to their heavy reliance on Russian equipment - especially Air-force with a lot of quite recent purchased and still on order aircraft. Personally I think that their decision towards Rafale also won't pay off - but they didn't allow themselves much of a choice.

Pakistan I would assume has made it's choice/decision - they are basically hampered/plagued by financial/budgetary issues at present that prevents them from a radical switch. Will be interesting to see how their inventory will be affected/changes in the next 10 years.
 
Top