2 Palestinians killed, 3 Israeli's injured in renewed violence | World Defense

2 Palestinians killed, 3 Israeli's injured in renewed violence

Falcon29

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2 Jerusalem cops shot in head, badly hurt, by Palestinian gunman
Two policemen are reported severely wounded in a Jerusalem shooting attack, with bullet wounds to the head.

3 seriously hurt in attacks in Petah Tikvah, Jerusalem | The Times of Israel

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What a fucking man, you dealt the cowardly Israeli terrorists a blow today.

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Confirmed: 1 Israeli soldier succumbs to wounds
 

Falcon29

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Hours after cowardly Israeli terrorists murdered an innocent 50 year old woman under guise of 'preventing stabbing attack', which was a lie.
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Abu Ghazala believed the ten minutes during which Red Crescent paramedics were prevented by Israeli forces from accessing Abu Teir could have been enough time to save her life.

Abu Ghazala said the woman received a gunshot to the eye and two shots to the abdomen.


Palestinian woman killed after alleged stab attempt in Jerusalem's Old City

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Falcon29

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Breaking: Palestinian man in Jewish occupied Jaffa kills one illegal Jewish settler, and wounds another 10.
 

xTinx

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This conflict will see no end if both parties - the Palestinians and the Israelis - continue to view each other as different races and enemies. If you think hard on it, they share a common history. They once lived in harmony. If this goes on, replicating that bloody event in Gaza a few years back, Netanyahu will no doubt lose the trust and confidence of the UN. He'll have no more reason to stay in power.
 

fcuco

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You clearly have a lot invested into this conflict, I am curious about what would you consider to be the best way to solve it. Will the Palestinians ever accept a two states solution?

I ask as a totally neutral person regarding this conflict. Do you think the Israelis will ever renounce to the settlements that they already have?
 

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This would seem to be the ultimate forever conflict. I don't see the possibility of an amicable solution anytime soon, probably not in this lifetime, so there will forever the usual drama, people being killed or injured on both sides, one side encroaching on the other's territory, one side denouncing the existence of the other, and I could go on and on. There are so many issues that need to be resolved and in spite of all the numerous efforts to broker a solution, there has been very little granted in the form of concessions by both sides.
 

Falcon29

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This conflict will see no end if both parties - the Palestinians and the Israelis - continue to view each other as different races and enemies. If you think hard on it, they share a common history. They once lived in harmony. If this goes on, replicating that bloody event in Gaza a few years back, Netanyahu will no doubt lose the trust and confidence of the UN. He'll have no more reason to stay in power.
You clearly have a lot invested into this conflict, I am curious about what would you consider to be the best way to solve it. Will the Palestinians ever accept a two states solution?

I ask as a totally neutral person regarding this conflict. Do you think the Israelis will ever renounce to the settlements that they already have?
This would seem to be the ultimate forever conflict. I don't see the possibility of an amicable solution anytime soon, probably not in this lifetime, so there will forever the usual drama, people being killed or injured on both sides, one side encroaching on the other's territory, one side denouncing the existence of the other, and I could go on and on. There are so many issues that need to be resolved and in spite of all the numerous efforts to broker a solution, there has been very little granted in the form of concessions by both sides.
The region is defined by tribal identity and religious sectaraniasm. There is a very rich history in terms of the tribes and mixed Mediterranean people's. Prior to Moses era, we had ancient Egyptians and their innovations, we had the Canaanites who excelled in forming and regulating sea trade/routes, etc....Until Moses came along, this rich culture was slowly depleted. Predestination and religion influenced societies afterwards, which led others in the region to see importance in religion. As it became the norm. Judaism holds that Abraham had two sons, one of which bred Hebrews, the other Arabs, and declares that the Arab offspring is evil. Of course like with many religions, this notion was fabricated in the early 20th century for political reasons(forming Israel on what was then Arab land). So even if people are secular or irreligious, these religious claims hold strong and will continue doing so. Nothing about the Middle East is interesting anymore, it used to have a unique culture, now it's just political hotbed. And therefore, you can't survive unless you do as others do.

The Palestinians, unfortunately, have to take extreme measures to get global attention for the cause. The world has signaled disinterest in solving the conflict, but they aid Israel militarily, and the Palestinians essentially have given up on the world and realize if they want to restore their rights, it's gonna happen at their hands, not by anyone else, even others of their ethnic background. Unless the next US president actually pushes an agenda of an two state solution. Which Palestinians will agree to on the 1967 borders, one that allows free trade/imports/exports and border security by third party.
 

fcuco

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o you believe that it is not that far fetched to claim that some of the Palestinians (their leaders, not the actual people) are not very interested in having peace since this perpetual state of conflict allows then to gain and retain power? How aligned is the general Palestinian population with their leadership?
 

Falcon29

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o you believe that it is not that far fetched to claim that some of the Palestinians (their leaders, not the actual people) are not very interested in having peace since this perpetual state of conflict allows then to gain and retain power? How aligned is the general Palestinian population with their leadership?
We need to define peace, peace does not mean temporary lull in any violence for majority of the world. Peace means achieving a long lasting solution to the conflict. Achieving calm is in interest of Israeli parties, because it allows them to implement more advanced stages for annexation of West Bank. If this is the peace you're referring to you, then it makes sense to oppose it. Now as far as actual peace, that requires an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and international force deployment to control borders. All Palestinian parties agree to a 1967 two state solution. The only party that prefers your type of 'peace', same kind Israel prefers, is the Palestinian authority. Whom leaders take pride in advancing the Israeli agenda of annexing the West Bank. Hope that answered your question.
 

fcuco

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No, the peace I am referring to is not the absence of conflict or fighting, and certainly not resolution without justice because that would be no resolution at all, not even a cease fire, I am talking about a full fledged stop of all hostilities because both parties reached some kind of agreement that satisfies both.

I could see a certain type of leadership that is secretly opposed to that by the simple fact than then they will lack the excuse of the perpetual conflict to justify not so bright governments and they will need to start to answer to the basic needs of their people without the alibi of war.
 

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This conflict will see no end if both parties - the Palestinians and the Israelis - continue to view each other as different races and enemies. If you think hard on it, they share a common history. They once lived in harmony. If this goes on, replicating that bloody event in Gaza a few years back, Netanyahu will no doubt lose the trust and confidence of the UN. He'll have no more reason to stay in power.
That's what has been happening all along - it's like a vendetta game where the other party would retaliate for the retaliation of the other party. It seemed that no one has the memory of who started it first (the violent act toward the enemy) and all they know is that they must seize any opportunity to "retaliate." I am not taking sides on this issue because it's a matter of human nature to protect his survival and both parties - Israel and Palestine - are feeling that way.
 

Falcon29

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No, the peace I am referring to is not the absence of conflict or fighting, and certainly not resolution without justice because that would be no resolution at all, not even a cease fire, I am talking about a full fledged stop of all hostilities because both parties reached some kind of agreement that satisfies both.

I could see a certain type of leadership that is secretly opposed to that by the simple fact than then they will lack the excuse of the perpetual conflict to justify not so bright governments and they will need to start to answer to the basic needs of their people without the alibi of war.
You can find parties like that on both sides, in Israel that is the Likud party(which Netanyahu heads), in Palestine I'm assuming you're referring to Hamas. I disagree with your notion, however, Hamas isn't looking for perpetual conflict. It actually didn't want to govern Gaza, it's a daunting nightmare to govern under siege with closed borders. Hamas believes in militarization and very strict position on the two state solution which it won't back away from. That is a two state solution on 1967 borders, with full Israeli withdrawal. Hamas has stated since 20 years ago this is the solution it would sign to. And agreed to full cessation of hostilities for at least a decade, and if the agreement is honored during that decade, then we will live aside one another as neighbors.

Netanyahu's party, also is what some term the 'right wing' party which stays in power by promising militarization of Israel, the West Bank, but also promising immense settlement construction(to move ten of thousands of settlers in). Do you believe that party will agree to a two state solution? Compare the Israeli government position with Hamas's, Hamas won't disarm, but it will agree to a reasonable two state solution. Israeli government will not withdraw from West Bank or end settlement construction at this point. Hamas's position appears to be the defensive one as opposed to the Israeli position. Israel will also still consider Gaza as separate entity from West Bank, which complicates matters.
 

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I am not naive enough to ignore that some groups in Israel probably benefit from the conflict too.

I was talking about all governments in general, even in the United States we have a couple of war hawks that enjoy the fruits of perpetual conflict in the form of the industrial military complex.

I will take your word on the whole Hamas thing, because usually the rhetoric that we hear is one that will only accept a solution that involves wiping out Israel from the face of earth, or at least that's what you hear from the Iranians, so maybe they are actually not helping your cause.
 

Falcon29

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I am not naive enough to ignore that some groups in Israel probably benefit from the conflict too.

I was talking about all governments in general, even in the United States we have a couple of war hawks that enjoy the fruits of perpetual conflict in the form of the industrial military complex.

I will take your word on the whole Hamas thing, because usually the rhetoric that we hear is one that will only accept a solution that involves wiping out Israel from the face of earth, or at least that's what you hear from the Iranians, so maybe they are actually not helping your cause.
Iranians represent their nation, so I don't see point in dragging them into this frankly. Palestinians don't believe in what you mentioned, Hamas modified it's charter long ago regarding that. Even if we do counter rhetoric in, what Palestinians say or don't say doesn't influence the direction of their plight. As long as US veto/monopoly on both parties(Israel and PA) continues to persist, then the international community cannot strike a deal. Otherwise, those states that recognized Palestine as a state at the UN would mediate as honest brokers.
 
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