27th Feb 2019 - History Made!

[Mastankhan]

Agreed 100%, cannot add anything to it. Well explained, Indinas dont have the morals or Psyche of a Typical nemesis. They wont accept their loss/es easily.



Well, there are two sides of the coins on this one, 2 or 9 . For me, something middle would have been fine. Your arguments are all True, no denying in it. The thing is what were the chances of India going full Throttle if we had gone at 9 AC (well they went on defcon 4 anyway). I am not going against you but am unable to quantify & outweigh Shooting 9 IAF Ac down against Preventing a WAR.

What were the Chances on paper?? Probability?

Well, worry not, plenty more chances will come for sure, you know better than anybody. Maywe learn from our Mistakes. Amen.

Hi,

When you see your top gun fighter going down in a one on one shoot out---fear and panic takes over decision making process---.

That is why---the Persian forces after seeing their famous fighters being slaughtered in a one on one battle with the invading arab armies refused to enter that kind of combat after the Generals realized how panicked and concerned their soldiers had become---.

You take out 9 enemy top notch aircraft and keep repeating the JF17's to be the culprits---you have decimated the enemy's psyche---.

That little insect just turned out to be the monster---just like the CORONA VIRUS---. No one was giving it a sh-it till yesterday and now the whole of the world is in a lock down---unbelievable---unimaginable---not thought of before---no one would have believed it before---but it has happened---.

You decimate the enemy's top line fighter---you send shock waves in the enemy's ranks---you catch them un-prepared for what you have leashed on them---.

An all out war at that time was more controllable to an all out war in the near future---.

At that time the enemy was ill-prepared---for our reaction and resources---. Now the enemy will be well prepared and would have recovered from the lack of resources ready with upgraded systems---.

The 27th feb reaction was a total blunder by the Paf---.

I state again---M M ALAM's statement---" a Paf pilot is ready when he goes on a mission to take on the enemy---he does not have to ask permission to take on the targets---that is already a part of PRE-PLANNING of the mission "---.

The failure in this case was the Paf pilots continuously asking for permission to take on the enemy---. That meant---all contingencies were not covered prior to the mission---.

Second---I blame the cowardice of the Air Vice Marshall who was flying with the group to not have courage to take immediate charge of the situation rather than passing on the buck---.

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

When you see your top gun fighter going down in a one on one shoot out---fear and panic takes over decision making process---.

That is why---the Persian forces after seeing their famous fighters being slaughtered in a one on one battle with the invading arab armies refused to enter that kind of combat after the Generals realized how panicked and concerned their soldiers had become---.

You take out 9 enemy top notch aircraft and keep repeating the JF17's to be the culprits---you have decimated the enemy's psyche---.

That little insect just turned out to be the monster---just like the CORONA VIRUS---. No one was giving it a sh-it till yesterday and now the whole of the world is in a lock down---unbelievable---unimaginable---not thought of before---no one would have believed it before---but it has happened---.

You decimate the enemy's top line fighter---you send shock waves in the enemy's ranks---you catch them un-prepared for what you have leashed on them---.

An all out war at that time was more controllable to an all out war in the near future---.

At that time the enemy was ill-prepared---for our reaction and resources---. Now the enemy will be well prepared and would have recovered from the lack of resources ready with upgraded systems---.

The 27th feb reaction was a total blunder by the Paf---.

I state again---M M ALAM's statement---" a Paf pilot is ready when he goes on a mission to take on the enemy---he does not have to ask permission to take on the targets---that is already a part of PRE-PLANNING of the mission "---.

The failure in this case was the Paf pilots continuously asking for permission to take on the enemy---. That meant---all contingencies were not covered prior to the mission---.

Second---I blame the cowardice of the Air Vice Marshall who was flying with the group to not have courage to take immediate charge of the situation rather than passing on the buck---.

Come on Bro, lets not be too harsh on the PAF, I would say overall an exemplary result and response to one dead crow, and few dead trees.

IAF has been scarred for life.

 

[Mastankhan]

Come on Bro, lets not be too harsh on the PAF, I would say overall an exemplary result and response to one dead crow, and few dead trees.

IAF has been scarred for life.

Hi,

I disagree with you. Pak army ISPR blundered when they vehemently denied no loss of life and missed targets---.

Why they blundered and made that statement because they did not want to retaliate initially against the enemy---they just tried to cooll the siuation down===Paf was happy that it shooed off the enemy on the night of the 26th---.

But tthe public reaction was sever and the Paf had to retaliate---but in the meantime---they had totally fckd up their advantage by making the claim of dead crows---.

They should have harped on the 300 dead children in the madrassah and made a heavy heavy strike on the enemy---and when later confronted by the US and other power---you would have claimed that it was in the heat of the moment that we were told that 300 of our children had died and we had to retaliate and do what we have to---and america would have understood very well---.

That is why in the US---if you don't intend to shoot anyone---keep your hand away from the GUN---don't just hold it in your hands.

The enemy gave pakistan military the Carte Blanche how to react---. Our fears got the better of us---. Now pakistani kids know what i had been telling them for decades---you cannot depend on the weapons you are planning to get---.

You have to fight your wars with what you got 5 years ago---.

The cross border strike---the world was claiming that is was an act of war---that india has declared war on pakistan---only the cowards of the Pak military were claiming it was not an act of war---how so---.

The ROT is set deep in pak military establishment---.

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

I disagree with you. Pak army ISPR blundered when they vehemently denied no loss of life and missed targets---.

Why they blundered and made that statement because they did not want to retaliate initially against the enemy---they just tried to cooll the siuation down===Paf was happy that it shooed off the enemy on the night of the 26th---.

But tthe public reaction was sever and the Paf had to retaliate---but in the meantime---they had totally fckd up their advantage by making the claim of dead crows---.

They should have harped on the 300 dead children in the madrassah and made a heavy heavy strike on the enemy---and when later confronted by the US and other power---you would have claimed that it was in the heat of the moment that we were told that 300 of our children had died and we had to retaliate and do what we have to---and america would have understood very well---.

That is why in the US---if you don't intend to shoot anyone---keep your hand away from the GUN---don't just hold it in your hands.

The cross border strike---the world was claiming that is was an act of war---that india has declared war on pakistan---only the cowards of the Pak military were claiming it was not an act of war---how so---.

The ROT is set deep in pak military establishment---.

I agree this would have been an ideal excuse to bomb the crap out of them, at least in Kashmir.

 

[Scorpio]

Hi,

When you see your top gun fighter going down in a one on one shoot out---fear and panic takes over decision making process---.

That is why---the Persian forces after seeing their famous fighters being slaughtered in a one on one battle with the invading arab armies refused to enter that kind of combat after the Generals realized how panicked and concerned their soldiers had become---.

You take out 9 enemy top notch aircraft and keep repeating the JF17's to be the culprits---you have decimated the enemy's psyche---.

That little insect just turned out to be the monster---just like the CORONA VIRUS---. No one was giving it a sh-it till yesterday and now the whole of the world is in a lock down---unbelievable---unimaginable---not thought of before---no one would have believed it before---but it has happened---.

You decimate the enemy's top line fighter---you send shock waves in the enemy's ranks---you catch them un-prepared for what you have leashed on them---.

An all out war at that time was more controllable to an all out war in the near future---.

At that time the enemy was ill-prepared---for our reaction and resources---. Now the enemy will be well prepared and would have recovered from the lack of resources ready with upgraded systems---.

The 27th feb reaction was a total blunder by the Paf---.

I state again---M M ALAM's statement---" a Paf pilot is ready when he goes on a mission to take on the enemy---he does not have to ask permission to take on the targets---that is already a part of PRE-PLANNING of the mission "---.

The failure in this case was the Paf pilots continuously asking for permission to take on the enemy---. That meant---all contingencies were not covered prior to the mission---.

Second---I blame the cowardice of the Air Vice Marshall who was flying with the group to not have courage to take immediate charge of the situation rather than passing on the buck---.

Totally agree with him, that 26 feb was our day we can make part international history,
He is public humiliation in front there own nation and internationally, will put them on there knees .
War possibility was at that time, was controlled?
How many month our forces remain on verge of war with 2 3 time, in few hours game.

These opportunities will not knock your door every time.

 

[Zeeman]

I still Believe it was a proportional response with carefully calibrated escalation calculated.

Last thing we could afford was a large scale war considering our disastrous economic situation. By then US and Europeans had already given signal that they approved of attack on terrorists hideouts.

Pakistan played brilliantly.... we showed them our willingness, ability and technology to strike them and bloodied them.

We took their pants off in public and that was a punishment enough ....

By the way pilots were allowed to shoot AAM only in two circumstances : if strike package was targeted or if any plane crossed into Pakistan. We all know what happened on that day...

 

[Caprxl]

An all out war at that time was more controllable to an all out war in the near future---.

I may not agree completely with you on this issue as i said before but you just Beautifully & rightly summarized it;

"An all out war at that time was more controllable to an all out war in the near future---."​

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Come on Bro, lets not be too harsh on the PAF, I would say overall an exemplary result and response to one dead crow, and few dead trees.

IAF has been scarred for life.

That's not true. Like I keep reminding people here, our ancestors told us and warned us about the mindset of those people. They think we were scared to do anything. That we shot the planes in the heat of the moment and that's why we had to return the pilot.

That Pakistan had bowed down to their pressure and that's why we backed off. Now this would have been alot different if a pole was erected at wagha and the pilot found atop of it. They wouldnt been going around singing these tunes now.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Did they ?? You sure brother? Here are two points to think over and then access the facts;

• "They are claiming that they remained in the Pakistani airspace for 21 minutes and killed 350 terrorists. They claim that the second strike was in Muzaffarabad and the third in Chakothi. "Allah almighty is the greatest and we should not make tall claims, but come and try to spend 21 minutes in Pakistani airspace," challenged Maj Gen Ghafoor.

• In the documentary Invincible Resolve, please watch from 10:52 to 11:55 Listen to Shehzad Chaudhry at 11:01 & Kaisar Tufail at 11:40, both ex-PAF.

So brothers, positive criticism is welcomed but facts also need to be seen. SOW, Stand Of Weapons ..

Summary of Maj Gen Ghafoor, Shehzad Chaudhry & Kaisar Tufail on IAF Intrusion & use of SOW.

Maj Gen Ghafoor ex- DG ISPR:

1. Allah is GREAT.
2. India should come & try to Stay in Pakistan Airspace for 21 minutes.

"Meaning from Day one, it was known IAF used SOW across LOC & did not come on Balakot"​

Shehzad Chaudhry :

1. IAF comes in about 1km - 2km across LOC & Turned around trying to get away after dropping Bombs (SOW).
2. It is not difficult to intrude 2-3 km inside enemy Air Space imagining Aircraft flying sub-sonic they would intrude this much while taking 180 turn BUT not at the cost of ACCURACY.

Kaisar Tufail:

1. It was not a conventional bombing that they had come over Balakot & bombed.
2. If they had come over Balakot ofcourse we would have intercepted them.
3. The bombs were lobbed 45-50 km away i.e on LOC.

Links:

Transcript of DG ISPR Press Conference : https://www.dawn.com/news/1466161
DG ISPR Press Conference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppc--qD1L4
Invincible Resolve | Operation Swift Retort : https://youtu.be/J-vYtEqu1MQ
Shehzad Chaudhry on IAF Intrusion : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-vYtEqu1MQ&feature=youtu.be&t=652
Kaisar Tufail on SOW Launch from 45-50 KM away from Balakot : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-vYtEqu1MQ&feature=youtu.be&t=699

You can see distance of Balakot from LOC in following image, you can use google maps yourself as well to confirm the distance.

View attachment 12794

So your saying sows cant be stopped? That's nice to know

 

[Caprxl]

Now this would have been alot different if a pole was erected at wagha and the pilot found atop of it. They wouldnt been going around singing these tunes now.

I am sure you are just saying it in heat of Discussion, are you not? Because it goes against norm of Islam.

 

[Caprxl]

So your saying sows cant be stopped? That's nice to know

Well that is another good topic to discuss, So if you want to discuss about SOW please open another thread,

BUT;

my answer was to your Statement saying IAF came deep Inside Pakistan to Balakot & i am correcting your facts. You did not say anything about stopping SOW.

May I remind everyone here how shameful it is for enemy jets to fly so far into Pakistan without being shot down
On top of that they also escaped back into India. A proper reaction would have been to shoot them all down as soon as they crossed the borders. How is PA addressing this? Or are they going to let Indian jets reach Peshawar next time. Just like the good old days when the Indians bombed Peshawar airport. Utterly shameful

Remember ?? So not Utterly shameful at all.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

I am sure you are just saying it in heat of Discussion, are you not? Because it goes against norm of Islam.

What goes against Islam?

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Well that is another good topic to discuss, So if you want to discuss about SOW please open another thread,

BUT;

my answer was to your Statement saying IAF came deep Inside Pakistan to Balakot & i am correcting your facts. You did not say anything about stopping SOW.



Remember ?? So not Utterly shameful at all.

Still is since the sows weren't prevented. This just means it can happen again and all eastern cities in Punjab, GB, AJK, and Sindh can get hit.

The fact of the matter was HOW was this allowed to happen in the first place. That was the emphasis in my earlier statement.

 

[Caprxl]

Still is since the sows weren't prevented. This just means it can happen again and all eastern cities in Punjab, GB, AJK, and Sindh can get hit.

The fact of the matter was HOW was this allowed to happen in the first place. That was the emphasis in my earlier statement.

Well it wasn't the emphasis i got as it was regarding IAF coming on top of Balakot , Bombing & escaping. We will derail the thread, so if you want further discussions open a new thread, in fact i liked the thought of a thread discussing how to Stop SOW.

To conclude, YES it can happen again, BUT so can happen to Indian cities as well like it was demonstrated on morning of 27th. By this way Pakistan Cities can be painted with Mushroom Clouds as well BUT so does the Indian cities.

So, signing off from this topic, make a new thread if you want to discus this further brother.

 

[Caprxl]

What goes against Islam?

Hanging a Prisoner who has already laid arms goes against the ethics of our Prophet (P.B.U.h) teachings. So despite our Patriotism, Anger & spirit we had to have cool minds.