Abhijit ayer in conversation with Sanjay Dixit | World Defense

Abhijit ayer in conversation with Sanjay Dixit

TsAr

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Armchair

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Interesting claim that a JF-17 was shot down "and the americans confirm". He has some good points but I think there is also some aspects he doesn't fully grasp and unable to appreciate.

For instance dual pulse AAMs vs "air breathing" aams. Or how stealth is being considered differently in different parts of the world. Russians surely could have avoided exposing the engine face, but didn't. Not because they "don't know about stealth", but they made a conscious choice that Mr. Mitra doesn't understand.

And more.
 

TsAr

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Interesting claim that a JF-17 was shot down "and the americans confirm". He has some good points but I think there is also some aspects he doesn't fully grasp and unable to appreciate.

For instance dual pulse AAMs vs "air breathing" aams. Or how stealth is being considered differently in different parts of the world. Russians surely could have avoided exposing the engine face, but didn't. Not because they "don't know about stealth", but they made a conscious choice that Mr. Mitra doesn't understand.

And more.
I do not agree that any PAF aeroplane was shot down, but I have always maintained that if India claimed to shoot down a JF-17 the world might have acknowledged there claim but claiming to shoot down an F-16 is like taking on USA. Secondly the F-16 claim proved that the Indians were clueless about the package that was used in the operation.
 

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As it stands - nothing officially is there to believe that a JF-17 was shot down or a F-16 was shot down. All we know for certain is a MiG-21 was shot down.

However, in terms of "conspiracy", @Khafee believes 8-9 Indian aircraft were lost and theTallGuy also has a similar theory. Messiach suggested JF-17s shot down aircraft as well. Oscar also noted that something on Pak side was lost (whether people or aircraft or something else, we don't know).

How can we reconcile this info?

My own theory and attempt to reconcile this information is to think that a second engagement happened, after the PAF bombed Bipin and came back. In this second engagement, after IAF lost their Bison and a Su-30MKI, they came back for revenge and the PAF shot down 6 more aircraft. During that engagement, the IAF perhaps managed to shoot down a PAF aircraft.

Again, all of this is just unsubstantiated, theories, thoughts rumours.

I do not agree that any PAF aeroplane was shot down, but I have always maintained that if India claimed to shoot down a JF-17 the world might have acknowledged there claim but claiming to shoot down an F-16 is like taking on USA. Secondly the F-16 claim proved that the Indians were clueless about the package that was used in the operation.
 

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As it stands - nothing officially is there to believe that a JF-17 was shot down or a F-16 was shot down. All we know for certain is a MiG-21 was shot down.

However, in terms of "conspiracy", @Khafee believes 8-9 Indian aircraft were lost and theTallGuy also has a similar theory. Messiach suggested JF-17s shot down aircraft as well. Oscar also noted that something on Pak side was lost (whether people or aircraft or something else, we don't know).

How can we reconcile this info?

My own theory and attempt to reconcile this information is to think that a second engagement happened, after the PAF bombed Bipin and came back. In this second engagement, after IAF lost their Bison and a Su-30MKI, they came back for revenge and the PAF shot down 6 more aircraft. During that engagement, the IAF perhaps managed to shoot down a PAF aircraft.

Again, all of this is just unsubstantiated, theories, thoughts rumours.
Oh bhai! Khudda ko maano, re-read what I wrote. I said "due to post-engagement, increased flt activity, IAF managed to crash 8~9 more jets, on their own."

They have admitted to this, as it kept appearing in their media. But there was one Jaguar crash I remember, which was very suspicious. It literally looked like the wreckage had been placed there.

As to PAF loosing anything, with all due respect to Oscar, he wasn't there. And no wreckage, of any kind was found on the Pak side. Given how densely populated the PAk side is, it would have made it to social & electronic media very fast.

Secondly, Sats, and other Allied assets have confirmed the IAF losses, but none on the PAF's sides.
 

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Oscar never said an aircraft was lost. He just hinted, there was something hidden, some kind of loss on the Pak side. So if Pak told tales, India could retaliate by doing the same about it. It could be losses on the ground, due to Indian air strike, or whatever. An unknown loss.

I have presumed it could mean JF-17 loss, given how convinced Mr. Mitra is and how the "Americans told him so".
 

TsAr

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Oscar never said an aircraft was lost. He just hinted, there was something hidden, some kind of loss on the Pak side. So if Pak told tales, India could retaliate by doing the same about it. It could be losses on the ground, due to Indian air strike, or whatever. An unknown loss.

I have presumed it could mean JF-17 loss, given how convinced Mr. Mitra is and how the "Americans told him so".
what the Americans could have said is that there is no chance a F-16 went down perhaps you guys shot a JF-17, there is no concrete evidence to suggest that PAF has any losses.
 

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what the Americans could have said is that there is no chance a F-16 went down perhaps you guys shot a JF-17, there is no concrete evidence to suggest that PAF has any losses.
In this day and age, Where live sat feeds, SIGINT drones and a/c's fly with transponders off, it is not possible that an AAM is fired, and it does not get picked up. Forget an a/c being shot down.
 

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