Actively Passive: Should I Be Listening? | Page 2 | World Defense

Actively Passive: Should I Be Listening?

orangesunset

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I think it is. I think about Buddhist monks in war-torn countries: they just meditate & eat & sleep etc. If the WMDs erupt in their midst, 'worrying about it' won't stop the fire they didn't start!

Short answer no. Some people follow sport's teams, some people watch movies, I like to watch foreign affairs. I can not directly change what is happening half a world away, about all I can do is vote for a leader and hope he does a good job. If watching foreign affairs and news causes you to get upset, then you should become like the Buddhist monks.

Arguing about foreign affairs and politics is like arguing about sports teams, a futile exercise but fun :)
 

Uncle Doc J

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No, your attitude is completely selfish. That's okay. Some people truly believe this brings them happiness, or they just are not able to have an all-compassing vision that goes further than their own needs. To be frank, I could care less about you, but since you ask, here's the thing:

If you were an ermit, a hobo, some homeless person on the street, I'd say sure, worry about your own problems, you have enough as it is! Besides, it's not like in those situations, you would elect some assholes and then pay tax money to pay the salary of politicians who make it their missions to fuck up and destabilize so many other countries! It's not like, if you were homeless, you would pay tax money to invest in wars and weapons! It's not like, if you were an ermit, you'd buy tons of products that would destroy the planet (either because of their lack of ethics or because of their lack of sustainibility).

If you live within society, you impact society. Because of the way society is running now, by being your kind of neutral, you're just lending weight to the snowball of Bad Things Happening.

You can act like the people who just talk about things on forums just "pretend to care" but don't have much impact. I'd probably agree. I don't really like the fact that I don't have the impact I want. I tell myself, oh, but at least I'm not from the States, so my tax money does not go to useless wars or attempts to destabilize poor country just to my politicians can then abuse the situation. But I'm from Canada and even if our country is (or was) better (yay, people of my country don't have to worry about healthcare!), we have the Harper business, and there's only so much I can do even for my own region.

I can protest in the street, I can write articles and essays, I can take part in a strike, I can have as many conversations as possible to see if people could be open-minded and care enough to pay attention to what the people who care about the future of the country and of other countries are screaming in the street and explaining more quietly, but with the force of more details, on paper and online.

Because it needs to be both -- the people who go and protest and who organize projects can DO stuff all they want, the majority of the people stays silent and uninterested in the fate of the world, and then the politicians point at those people who will never budge (unless it's something that they care about very personally), and they use those quiet and uninvolved people to say, "Yeah, so you have a minority of people who do things, and then you have another group of people who send us letters and petitions and talk bad about our laws, but look at this mass of people there, they just want the subject to go away so they can focus on entertaining themselves."

The silent majority.

People like you.

People who just don't care, and who are proud of it, and who do have a stupid weight and I wish you didn't.

End of the story:

Everybody has an impact -- if you don't want to orientate the direction of yours yourself, someone else will be happy to do it for you.
Wow.

I feel important again; thank you so much.

(Unless you're being sarcastic, which means that I'm being sarcastic too :*)... unless you're not, then neither am I)
 

starshine

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Wow.

I feel important again; thank you so much.

(Unless you're being sarcastic, which means that I'm being sarcastic too :*)... unless you're not, then neither am I)

Oh, I really was not being sarcastic -- I would not have written so much when a sarcastic joke could fit in a few lines, really.

I wrote it all because I really used to be uncaring about the world. I thought it was completely boring and that it made no difference if I as a person took interest or not. So I can actually understand your original question -- it feels distant and too huge to impact. In my lack of giving a fuck, I was also pretty easy to influence.

But then life happened and diverse things that impacted me directly were thrown my way. At first I thought, oh whatever, I can manage even with that. And yet a lot of people around me were like, "We will not take this crap", and explained very clearly how it makes no sense and is just unfair and on how many levels it's wrong.

And that's the thing, that was the first step when I realized how freaking absurd the world and its politics could be. No more were the injustices abstract concepts -- they pissed me off. Not only were they hurting people, but the only thing to explain it was greed and opportunism from the government. Which sucks.

You could also say it's selfish because it started from something that affected me. I see it more as a starter point -- like if you would be standing in a crowd and daydreaming by yourself, and suddenly someone pushes you and then the world starts to come into focus.

When you do that and you find out every absurd and unjust thing happening, usually, it makes you a bit more peeved than not. Arguments that before I would have agreed on because of my lack of interest and knowledge now appeared to my eyes as disingenuous, intellectual shortcuts or just some absurd things that the media had thrown to the people for them to bite on.


The funny thing is, protesting in the streets was a wonderful experience with the crowd and the people on the sidewalk and in their houses talking to us and cheering us on. To just walk in a crowd and to feel the energy -- I guess it would be like a marathon feeling, if I was fit enough to know how a marathon would feel like. It carries you. As much as I had not a care about the world before, I could feel a very strong connection to the people around me.

The stupid thing though is that a group usually has to militate so hard for a cause, they try to put pressure on the representatives, they try to rally the people to their cause, or just to at least make them open their mind a little bit so that they would stop demonizing the protesters. Because if nobody of the population hears you out, then they will believe the propaganda, it's harder to win the fight. And so you spend months and years fighting to make one little thing right, and during this time the government makes many stupid laws and fucks a lot of things up, and I'm barely exaggerating.

I'm not asking you to go extreme and fight for all the injustices of the world. I mean, you can. Go right ahead if you want. But you don't have to. All you have to do is be aware. Be aware of when people use your name and your silence or whatever to further their agenda.

Just... knowledge sometimes is power. The more you know, the less likely you are to fall for lies and smoke screens, and thus the less likely you are to be manipulated. At this point, it would already make a difference, because every single person has an impact on the people around them.

It has nothing to do with following sports or not.

You can spend your life thinking that it doesn't matter, that you don't matter. But it does, and you do.
 

Uncle Doc J

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Oh, I really was not being sarcastic -- I would not have written so much when a sarcastic joke could fit in a few lines, really.

I wrote it all because I really used to be uncaring about the world. I thought it was completely boring and that it made no difference if I as a person took interest or not. So I can actually understand your original question -- it feels distant and too huge to impact. In my lack of giving a fuck, I was also pretty easy to influence.

But then life happened and diverse things that impacted me directly were thrown my way. At first I thought, oh whatever, I can manage even with that. And yet a lot of people around me were like, "We will not take this crap", and explained very clearly how it makes no sense and is just unfair and on how many levels it's wrong.

And that's the thing, that was the first step when I realized how freaking absurd the world and its politics could be. No more were the injustices abstract concepts -- they pissed me off. Not only were they hurting people, but the only thing to explain it was greed and opportunism from the government. Which sucks.

You could also say it's selfish because it started from something that affected me. I see it more as a starter point -- like if you would be standing in a crowd and daydreaming by yourself, and suddenly someone pushes you and then the world starts to come into focus.

When you do that and you find out every absurd and unjust thing happening, usually, it makes you a bit more peeved than not. Arguments that before I would have agreed on because of my lack of interest and knowledge now appeared to my eyes as disingenuous, intellectual shortcuts or just some absurd things that the media had thrown to the people for them to bite on.


The funny thing is, protesting in the streets was a wonderful experience with the crowd and the people on the sidewalk and in their houses talking to us and cheering us on. To just walk in a crowd and to feel the energy -- I guess it would be like a marathon feeling, if I was fit enough to know how a marathon would feel like. It carries you. As much as I had not a care about the world before, I could feel a very strong connection to the people around me.

The stupid thing though is that a group usually has to militate so hard for a cause, they try to put pressure on the representatives, they try to rally the people to their cause, or just to at least make them open their mind a little bit so that they would stop demonizing the protesters. Because if nobody of the population hears you out, then they will believe the propaganda, it's harder to win the fight. And so you spend months and years fighting to make one little thing right, and during this time the government makes many stupid laws and fucks a lot of things up, and I'm barely exaggerating.

I'm not asking you to go extreme and fight for all the injustices of the world. I mean, you can. Go right ahead if you want. But you don't have to. All you have to do is be aware. Be aware of when people use your name and your silence or whatever to further their agenda.

Just... knowledge sometimes is power. The more you know, the less likely you are to fall for lies and smoke screens, and thus the less likely you are to be manipulated. At this point, it would already make a difference, because every single person has an impact on the people around them.

It has nothing to do with following sports or not.

You can spend your life thinking that it doesn't matter, that you don't matter. But it does, and you do.
I think about the purpose of government---we elect people whom we trust to take care of problems that are-too big for us individually but -too small for God/Allah/Flying-Spagetti-Monster to bother-with.

However, I think that that "trusting" has to be affirmed by us actively not-caring about 'whether the elected-officials are corrupt or not.' I know that opens us to possibly being duped into 'letting' them waste our tax-dollars, but 'we should've thought of that before we elected them' :xD:
 

starshine

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I think about the purpose of government---we elect people whom we trust to take care of problems that are-too big for us individually but -too small for God/Allah/Flying-Spagetti-Monster to bother-with.

However, I think that that "trusting" has to be affirmed by us actively not-caring about 'whether the elected-officials are corrupt or not.' I know that opens us to possibly being duped into 'letting' them waste our tax-dollars, but 'we should've thought of that before we elected them' :xD:

I think you got democracy wrong.

You elect people who you pay to represent you.

If they promised things and then don't carry them out, they failed on their part of the contract. If they do not step up to the responsibility of at least trying to listen to what the people who elected them want, then they have no business being our "representatives".

As far as I'm concerned, it's like hiring someone for your business. You hire them so that they can carry out the responsibilities that you cannot really tackle by yourself, and you pay them for doing this job to the best of their capacity. It means you trust them to do what they said they would when they took the position, sure. But if they turn around and screw you and then act like, "Hey, you hired me already, so now that I have the post, I do whatever I want".... I mean, it just makes no amount of sense. At all. And an employer would not deal with bullshit like this, and since we have the nerve to call this a democracy then we should not just shrug and be like, "Oh, we get fooled everytime, whatever, it's not like it's their job to do what's best for us".

(Because it kind of is).
 

Uncle Doc J

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I think you got democracy wrong.

You elect people who you pay to represent you.

If they promised things and then don't carry them out, they failed on their part of the contract. If they do not step up to the responsibility of at least trying to listen to what the people who elected them want, then they have no business being our "representatives".

As far as I'm concerned, it's like hiring someone for your business. You hire them so that they can carry out the responsibilities that you cannot really tackle by yourself, and you pay them for doing this job to the best of their capacity. It means you trust them to do what they said they would when they took the position, sure. But if they turn around and screw you and then act like, "Hey, you hired me already, so now that I have the post, I do whatever I want".... I mean, it just makes no amount of sense. At all. And an employer would not deal with bullshit like this, and since we have the nerve to call this a democracy then we should not just shrug and be like, "Oh, we get fooled everytime, whatever, it's not like it's their job to do what's best for us".

(Because it kind of is).
Of course, I don't think I got democracy wrong; I 'know' I'm right (as is human nature <!?!>).

Democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia That's the thing about America; you can argue against the majority & totally agree at the same time. I haven't studied any other legislative-systems, but America's works out so that the elected officials can't fulfill all their promises. (All they can do is 'suggest changes.' Every law has to be approved by two of the three government-branches, and can always be repealed by any one of them!)

The primary role of government is 'to keep peace among the citizens.' Whatever their 'promises' are, we basically just trust them to 'make the right decisions from the options that arise.' (Their 'promises' are usually "the policies they promise to support" anyway ... if they 'promise' to "make something happen," they're bald-faced liars.)

My disagreement with 'people who don't trust our elected leaders' is that (like Penn & Teller say about Numbers) you can manipulate political-actions to say anything---you can claim the Bush 2 presidency caused 9/11-terrorism, you can claim the Obama presidency caused the current gas-prices. If you seek cause to accuse leaders of misdeeds, such cause is what you will find.
 

starshine

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From your Wikipedia source:

and the politicians represent their constituents

If they don't and they act on their own interests, you basically got the second part of democracy wrong. Electing is just the first part. If they then proceed to not listen to the voters but rather make their decisions based on companies and lobbies, it is not a democracy. It's a mockery of it.
 

Uncle Doc J

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That's why America isn't governed by a democracy. Our system of government is a "democratic republic" ... or a 'representative democracy' rather than a 'direct democracy.'

This is why people don't trust politicians---because we know that they want us to believe that their interests are our interests.

As a Republican (I'm registered "Independent," but that's just my way of 'not instantly agreeing with anyone who's "on my team"'), I trust my representatives to 'do what I myself would do in their position.' (it's "re-presentation," not 'rep-resentment' ~^~ ... funny how the 'partay-hat' so-resembles the 'dunce-cap' O<=>O) Oh, I can watch what they do on the news & see whether they are doing a good job or not; but if they're not, it usually means there's more to the story than what I care to see.
 

starshine

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Democratic republic means democracy. Republic just means anything that ain't a monarchy. And representative and direct are just two modes of democracy. There are many reasons one might say that "America (scratch this and say US) isn't governed by a democracy", but nothing of what you say would actually constitute a decent follow up explanation.

Aside from this, I'm not really sure what to say to you anymore. It looks like you are just fine watching condensed version of events, not caring and just trusting that everything will work out for you. It's okay. People who're satisfied with the current system are a dime a dozen -- so no, you do not need to care about what is going on around you. It's probably all going your way anyway.
 
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