Are large scale attacks ok?

[remnant]

The technique called blitzkrieg was used by the Germans during the Second World War and it involved huge numbers of warplanes attempting to overwhelm enemy defences. The Israelis are thought to have been exploring the possibility of using it to attack Iran's nuclear sites and Israel reportedly carried out a largescale drill involving more than 100 warplanes. Is it an effective technique in modern warfare?

 

[Susimi]

What with SAMs I don't think a blitzkrieg tactic would work in an attack against a modern military, such as Russia for instance. It might work against a third-world military but not against something modern and up to date.

 

[thomas pendrake]

Israel seems to have borrowed a number of concepts from NAZI Germany. Their approach to dealing with the 6000 year residents of Palestine is based on ethnic cleansing. They are yet to build gas chambers and ovens, but we can be assured that there is an active minority which would love to see that as the "final solution to the Palestinian problem". We have been able to appeal to the moderate majority in Iran and there is no nuclear weapons program in Iran, in distinction to the very active nucear weapons program in Israel. Remember, Israel exported nukes to apartheid South Africa. South Africa actually rid itself of those weapons after apartheid ended.
NAZI Germany considered Jewish freedom fighters to be terrorists, just as Israel treats Palestinian freedom fighters as terrorists. God has repeatedly banished the Jewish people from Israel, the last time for almost 2000 years. Will He again be forced to banish them?
Note that many Israelis and American Jews oppose the radical extremists in Israel and advocate for policies that will bring peace to the entire middle East. As a Christian, I believe that the solution lies in the ACTUAL teachings of the Prince of Peace, Jesus.

 

[explorerx7]

It worked then and I don't know if it would work now. The warfare landscape is completely different from what it used to be in those times and I believe the Iranians would be watching out for events like these because of their stance within the region. An action like this by Israel could provoke a real messy international affair so I don't see them doing it unless Iran physically provoked that action.

 

[vash]

What with SAMs I don't think a blitzkrieg tactic would work in an attack against a modern military, such as Russia for instance. It might work against a third-world military but not against something modern and up to date.

I disagree.

WWII planes attack in massive scales will not work against modern day SAM, but if the technological level is the same, then the number game still count.

Yes, SAM might or might not be able to shoot down a lot of incoming enemy aircraft, so are the defense aircraft. Thus, any small attack might end up being all shot down. But if you throw enough numbers at the target to the point completely overwhelm the defense, you are more likely to complete the objective.

It is not like all your attacking aircraft will be attacking the target. With enough aircraft, you can assign more escorts to deal with enemy aircraft as well as to fire on any SAM sites which had just exposed themselves. In such case, the enemies will have a lot harder time to deal with you than if you had only a few attacking aircraft.

 

[Susimi]

I disagree.

WWII planes attack in massive scales will not work against modern day SAM, but if the technological level is the same, then the number game still count.

Yes, SAM might or might not be able to shoot down a lot of incoming enemy aircraft, so are the defense aircraft. Thus, any small attack might end up being all shot down. But if you throw enough numbers at the target to the point completely overwhelm the defense, you are more likely to complete the objective.

It is not like all your attacking aircraft will be attacking the target. With enough aircraft, you can assign more escorts to deal with enemy aircraft as well as to fire on any SAM sites which had just exposed themselves. In such case, the enemies will have a lot harder time to deal with you than if you had only a few attacking aircraft.

With modern multi-role aircraft and their weaponry, one plane can do the work of handling SAMs, attacking a target, and defending itself. Why risk dozens when you could just send a couple?

Also with drones now having a firmly seated place in a countrys airforce, do you think it would be viable to develop "nuisance" drones for just such a purpose? For example a small propeller powered cheaply made drone that can be launched en mass from something like a large bomber or transport outside of or just inside the SAM range that would clutter up the radars while the strike aircraft went in, attacked the target and got out again relatively safely.

 

[vash]

With modern multi-role aircraft and their weaponry, one plane can do the work of handling SAMs, attacking a target, and defending itself. Why risk dozens when you could just send a couple?

Also with drones now having a firmly seated place in a countrys airforce, do you think it would be viable to develop "nuisance" drones for just such a purpose? For example a small propeller powered cheaply made drone that can be launched en mass from something like a large bomber or transport outside of or just inside the SAM range that would clutter up the radars while the strike aircraft went in, attacked the target and got out again relatively safely.

How are you going to deal with SAM, hostile jets who are trying to intercepting you, as well as bombing all at the same time?
Just how many missiles can you carry? Typical jet fighters can only carry 6 to 8 missiles. The more AA missiles you carry to deal with aerial threats, the fewer air-to-surface missiles you can carry for the bombing run. As for deal with AA, you just need extra maneuvering... (distraction when trying to drop the bomb), and require more bombs to destroy the SAM site in order to stop it from keep firing on you.

We are not talking about sending a single 4th generation fight jet to attack WWII era foe here. Your enemy is on the similar technological level as you.

 

[Susimi]

How are you going to deal with SAM, hostile jets who are trying to intercepting you, as well as bombing all at the same time?
Just how many missiles can you carry? Typical jet fighters can only carry 6 to 8 missiles. The more AA missiles you carry to deal with aerial threats, the fewer air-to-surface missiles you can carry for the bombing run. As for deal with AA, you just need extra maneuvering... (distraction when trying to drop the bomb), and require more bombs to destroy the SAM site in order to stop it from keep firing on you.

We are not talking about sending a single 4th generation fight jet to attack WWII era foe here. Your enemy is on the similar technological level as you.

I'm saying this with modern tech in mind.

I have to admit I overlooked the air-to-air aspect but again I would not dismiss outright a modern multi-role jet being able to destroy it's target as well as fending off any approaching fighters should the situation arise.

 

[vash]

I'm saying this with modern tech in mind.

I have to admit I overlooked the air-to-air aspect but again I would not dismiss outright a modern multi-role jet being able to destroy it's target as well as fending off any approaching fighters should the situation arise.

Unless you completely outmatch your opponent in every aspect, it is highly unlikely you can accomplish a bombing run with just a single jet. What if the enemy sends up two jets to intercept your only jet long before you even reach your target? What if they send 4? Or 6? Or even more? What if multiple SAM sites are opening fire on you with a dozen or so AA missiles? Have you thought about it at all? No chance for your (one) jet. It would be lucky enough to escape alive, let alone to accomplish the goal.

 

[John Snort]

In this hypothetical scenario, the U.S launches a large scale attack against Russia.

The Russians know the Americans are coming. What do they do? Wait for the Americans and hope their air defenses will stop them? I don't think so.

The Russians can destroy the entire fleet with just one EMP weapon. This is why a large scale attack against a country like Russia may not be a wise move.

 

[Susimi]

Unless you completely outmatch your opponent in every aspect, it is highly unlikely you can accomplish a bombing run with just a single jet. What if the enemy sends up two jets to intercept your only jet long before you even reach your target? What if they send 4? Or 6? Or even more? What if multiple SAM sites are opening fire on you with a dozen or so AA missiles? Have you thought about it at all? No chance for your (one) jet. It would be lucky enough to escape alive, let alone to accomplish the goal.

If an enemy outmatches you then it's highly unlikely that you would send a single jet to do the job, rather multiple jets assigned different tasks .

I suppose what I'm getting at is that a modern day fighter jet can do all those jobs by itself, in theory. Take the Super Hornet for instance. It could have a couple of Sidewinders on it's wingtips, anti-radiation missiles on underwing hardpoints and a couple of dumb bombs slung under the belly.

When you think about it it's pretty crazy to see how far aircraft capabilities have come compared to that of WWII aircraft for instance.

 

[vash]

If an enemy outmatches you then it's highly unlikely that you would send a single jet to do the job, rather multiple jets assigned different tasks .

I suppose what I'm getting at is that a modern day fighter jet can do all those jobs by itself, in theory. Take the Super Hornet for instance. It could have a couple of Sidewinders on it's wingtips, anti-radiation missiles on underwing hardpoints and a couple of dumb bombs slung under the belly.

When you think about it it's pretty crazy to see how far aircraft capabilities have come compared to that of WWII aircraft for instance.

Do you realize how many jet fighters the coalition had sent to Iraq during the first wave attack in 1991 the First Gulf War?
Just some food for thoughts. It was 8 Apache attack choppers sneak attacked and knocked out the Iraqi forward radar systems in the desert. As soon as the radar was down, 200+ jet fighters rushed in from the opening.

Did Iraqi force outmatch the coalition? Not a chance! They were even outnumbered, outgunned, and their tech was inferior in everything.