Are The Ukrainian Rebels That Strong?

#1

Redheart

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Was it a day or two back when they took another town? Does it mean that the separatists are stronger than the the government's army? Though Russia consistently denies claims that Russian troops aren't fighting alongside the rebels in Ukraine, fact it's highly unlikely that the rebels, most of whom have never been soldiers in their lives would force the Ukrainian army to flee.

Pro-Russian rebels take another town in push against Ukraine troops | CTV News
"A soldier wounded in combat for the town, Vuhlehirsk, said armoured vehicles and tanks were used in the attack on government positions, forcing a hasty retreat."
 
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Let's just say they have better strategy and better weapons than the Ukrainian army. There's a great strategist - an awesome mind - on the rebels' side. That's just my hunch, though. On the one hand, there are desperate people behind Ukraine's military. From the looks of it too, it's much easier to take the offensive than be on the defence.
 
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Let's just say they have better strategy and better weapons than the Ukrainian army. There's a great strategist - an awesome mind - on the rebels' side. That's just my hunch, though. On the one hand, there are desperate people behind Ukraine's military. From the looks of it too, it's much easier to take the offensive than be on the defence.
I disagree on the weapons part. The UA has mostly the same or better weapons than the rebels, and also it has fighter jets and helicopters. Also, you have to understand the the UA was the one that was leading the offensive and attacking (until recently). As we've seen recently their army is in almost total chaos. They have no clear goals nor anyone to lead them. More and more Ukrainians are evading military draft (from the data that I've seen only 20% reported for duty in the last round up), and that's completely understandable as all they are seeing is their countrymen coming back in either body bags or surrendering to the rebels as soon as they get a chance (asa they get surrounded by the rebels to be more precise).
 
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Redheart

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Cmok, the separatists do have better weapons than the Ukrainian army because Russia ARMS them. That's probably the reason why the U.S is considering giving the Ukranian government better weapons.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Russia tests new weapons
Ukrainian forces are . . . outclassed by the tanks arriving from Russia. Not only are these more modern than Ukrainian models, but Ukraine is also short of effective anti-armour weapons in working order.
 
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Cmok

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Cmok, the separatists do have better weapons than the Ukrainian army because Russia ARMS them. That's probably the reason why the U.S is considering giving the Ukranian government better weapons.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Russia tests new weapons
Ukrainian forces are . . . outclassed by the tanks arriving from Russia. Not only are these more modern than Ukrainian models, but Ukraine is also short of effective anti-armour weapons in working order.
From all the videos and pictures I've seen both the rebels and the Ukrainian Army are using the same weapons. The article that you provided gives no evidence to claims that Russia is sending weapons to the rebels, and all the equipment mentioned in the article (such as the Strela, Grad etc..) ,for which BBC claims is Russian state of the art equipment, is actually nothing more than Soviet era ''junk'' widely available and stationed throughout Ukraine. Keep in mind that the rebels have captured/destroyed at least 136 tanks in the past 20 days.

Strela-10 (at least 150 stationed in Ukraine)
Grad (at least 120 stationed in Ukraine)
 
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Falcon29

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From all the videos and pictures I've seen both the rebels and the Ukrainian Army are using the same weapons. The article that you provided gives no evidence to claims that Russia is sending weapons to the rebels, and all the equipment mentioned in the article (such as the Strela, Grad etc..) ,for which BBC claims is Russian state of the art equipment, is actually nothing more than Soviet era ''junk'' widely available and stationed throughout Ukraine. Keep in mind that the rebels have captured/destroyed at least 136 tanks in the past 20 days.

Strela-10 (at least 150 stationed in Ukraine)
Grad (at least 120 stationed in Ukraine)
Agreed, grad/manpads are thing of past. Russia now uses MLRS type missiles. Media prefers to sensationalize these old, ineffective weapons. They do it with the Palestinians, claim they have 'advanced' weapons because of several manpads/anti-tank missiles. Which were norm long ago and cannot create strategic capability.
 
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When they are fighting against civilians who have armed themselves then yes they are strong. Put them against a trained military unit and we will see a different outcome. I think it is full time the West put ground troops in Ukraine to restore order and democracy.
 
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I disagree on the weapons part. The UA has mostly the same or better weapons than the rebels, and also it has fighter jets and helicopters. Also, you have to understand the the UA was the one that was leading the offensive and attacking (until recently). As we've seen recently their army is in almost total chaos. They have no clear goals nor anyone to lead them. More and more Ukrainians are evading military draft (from the data that I've seen only 20% reported for duty in the last round up), and that's completely understandable as all they are seeing is their countrymen coming back in either body bags or surrendering to the rebels as soon as they get a chance (asa they get surrounded by the rebels to be more precise).
The rebels undoubtedly have better weapons - enough to shoot dead all the passengers inside MH17. Or did you forget? The latest siege at the airport where several Ukrainian soldiers were left for dead also proved what everyone suspected - not only did Russia supply the rebels with calibre weapons, they also covertly placed their own men within their ranks.
 
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Redheart

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When they are fighting against civilians who have armed themselves then yes they are strong. Put them against a trained military unit and we will see a different outcome. I think it is full time the West put ground troops in Ukraine to restore order and democracy.
No one wants war with Russia, as they constantly remind the West, "no one should mess with nuclear armed Russia."

Considering how devastating nuclear warfare can be, the West might be willing to sacrifice Ukraine for their own safety. Sending ground troops or giving any [lethal] military aid to Ukraine would imply that the West has declared war on Russia. And Russia would wade straight in . . . because they have NOTHING TO LOSE.
 
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Cmok

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The rebels undoubtedly have better weapons - enough to shoot dead all the passengers inside MH17. Or did you forget? The latest siege at the airport where several Ukrainian soldiers were left for dead also proved what everyone suspected - not only did Russia supply the rebels with calibre weapons, they also covertly placed their own men within their ranks.
When and where has it been proven that the rebels shot down MH17? Please back your claims with evidence otherwise they are nothing more than speculations.
One of the subjects of Minsk agreement was the Donetsk airport and according to the agreement Ukrainian forces obliged to withdraw from the airport and surrender it to the rebels. The airport was of great significance to the Ukrainian Army, it provided a boost to the moral as the soldiers who were entrenched there for months became known as ''cyborgs''. They were presented as undefeatable, patriotic force (well, truth be told they forgot to mention that the soldiers were allowed, by the rebels, to leave the base so new ones can come, get supplies etc otherwise they would have perished after a week). I'm really not sure how and based on what you believe that Ukrainian Army abandoning their own proves that the Russians are involved?
 
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