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vash

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That wasn't an opinion. He was stating it like it was fact. Nope, the country offered their help and given historical ties, ASEAN leaders won't refuse help voluntarily offered. Besides the only reason outsiders would help is because they have vested interests in the oil in Spratly's. At least India and Japan are helping for purely security and mutual respect reasons. Also, if you notice Vash's argument, he's elevating and praising China. Pretty much absurd for someone whose country isn't in good terms with it.

What I stated were indeed facts. What about you? Your opinion is heavily biased and favor Philippines based on nothing but Philippines' current point of view rather than historical facts.

Please counter-argue (with facts) when you can find one. :)
 

xTinx

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What I stated were indeed facts. What about you? Your opinion is heavily biased and favor Philippines based on nothing but Philippines' current point of view rather than historical facts.

Please counter-argue (with facts) when you can find one. :)
Do not bother me trying-hard fiction writer. Say what you will but no one in his right mind would bend over and accept your made-up facts and lousy arguments. Those are situations drawn out of your imagination. There's no point arguing in circles. You might as well talk to your self in the mirror. China never had and never will have sovereignty over Spratly's. You only need to check the map and read world history. Res ipsa loquitor - the thing speaks for itself. I rest my case. Ciao.
 

xTinx

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China's inciting war with their actions. You do not launch fighter planes on contested territories. Everyone knows that's clearly an invitation to war. When you assert your sovereignty over a strip of land, you don't build militarized zones - you occupy it properly the way the Malay Chinese occupied Singapore when it was still an inhabited island turned informal British port.
 

djdefense

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Can you please provide some link containing that news? And I don't mean cnn or bbc or something. Some reliable international news source that doesn't have a propoganda mindset against China?
 

vash

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Do not bother me trying-hard fiction writer. Say what you will but no one in his right mind would bend over and accept your made-up facts and lousy arguments. Those are situations drawn out of your imagination. There's no point arguing in circles. You might as well talk to your self in the mirror. China never had and never will have sovereignty over Spratly's. You only need to check the map and read world history. Res ipsa loquitor - the thing speaks for itself. I rest my case. Ciao.

So far you haven't brought up a single fact but question "look at the map". So what if I had looked at the map many times? What are you trying to prove? What is your point?
Let me guess, you want to say how much closer Philippines is to the Spartly islands? If distance is the deciding factor, then Falkland would be belonging to Argentine.


Me fiction writer? Which part of my fact is a fiction? So far you keep saying China is wrong, but you haven't offered any evidence.

The official map of the previous Chinese regime (ROC) had the 9-dash-line. That was before Philippines ever claimed any of the Spartly islands, and was still under US control. The US never objected to the ROC control of Spartly islands. In fact, after Japan surrendered to the allies (US, USSR, China, UK), the US navy escorted ROC troops to Spartly islands. ROC had troops stationed on many Spartly islands and had flags on all of them, until Philippines removed two of the flags in 1950s.


In 1950 when the Republic of China evacuated to Taiwan, they pulled out garrison at Spartly islands. Out of blue, the Filipino Tomas Cloma uprooted an ROC flag on Itu Aba and laid claim to the Spratlys. As a respond, the Republic of China (now Taiwan) again regarrisoned Itu Aba. The US reminded the Philippines at its independence that the Spratlys was not Philippine territory, both to not anger Chiang Kai-Shek in China and because the Spratlys were not part of the Philippines per the 1898 treaty Spain signed with America.
 
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djdefense

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Boy, now that's an argument I don't want to be a part of :) Its true that current international law is such that various countries can lay claim to the Spratlys islands, but considering the history that @vash has now provided about the place, I don't see any reason why China would back down anyways. Also, let us not forget that countries lay claim to territories in full, no one ever says lets split.

And the US just wants trade lanes open which is becoming harder as China grows in strength. To use a poker analogy, China has some good cards in its hands when it comes to military strength, but the moment it'll get called out, it'll fold because it doesn't have the top hand. Unlike poker, there is no luck involved in military growth. With a weak navy, China is laying claim to the islands. Imagine what they will do when they finally build up the kind of might that they are projecting each day on their national television.
 

joshposh

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Like I said earlier, it's going to be cherry picking on modern international law and historical facts. Maybe we should just let the Philippines defend them selves and the USA pulls back to Japan. Since Americans are outsiders but we provide the funds for the military that they are crying for, we should just let them fend for them selves.
 

arthnel

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I think that is a valid line of argument too. China is winning at this poker game, or chess or whichever one you choose. The strategy, while seemingly unfair, is still good for the rise of China as it takes its spotlight as leader, whether regional or world. All of these moves will have trickle effects for many areas of commerce, military, educational and social enhancement. China is not going to negotiate this one. It's clearly a full-house and is the best hand at the table.
 

djdefense

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Yeah and this is the same strategy that China is using with all of its neighbors. Its basically testing waters and checking who stands up to it and who doesn't.
 

vash

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The talk of "keep trade lanes open" is nothing but excuses. Since nobody has tried to close the lanes in the first place, it is just baseless accusations against China. Yes, every piece of news about the dispute had brought up the "5 trillion USD worth of trade" go through this area. Yet, how much of this "5 trillion" is actually goods from and to China? Well, a very large percentage of it for sure. China imports most of their oil and iron ores as well as lots of other goods through South China Sea. Why would China try to close the lanes their very own trade is depended on? In fact, Chinese push to take full control of the area is aimed at keep their trade router open. They see their lifeline as vulnerable if they do not change their "offshore defense" strategy to "forward active defense".
 

vash

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I think that is a valid line of argument too. China is winning at this poker game, or chess or whichever one you choose. The strategy, while seemingly unfair, is still good for the rise of China as it takes its spotlight as leader, whether regional or world. All of these moves will have trickle effects for many areas of commerce, military, educational and social enhancement. China is not going to negotiate this one. It's clearly a full-house and is the best hand at the table.

To China, it is their survival at stake.
To the US, it is to suppress another country from becoming a super power to ever challenge the US.
To the other countries in the disputes, some of them just want to benefit from this conflict between two great nations, while a few others are nothing but willing pawns in the game.

"China is not going to negotiate this one".
That is a wrong statement. China wants negotiation with each claimant in the dispute individually. Yet Philippines refused to talk one on one without bringing another dozen countries to back itself up. So it is Philippines refused to talk so far. Philippines also pointed fingers at other neighbors for not backing them up. So basically, "either you support me, or you are the bad guy too!".

Philippines had always pretended to be bullied in the dispute. Just look at what they did to a Taiwanese fishing boat. They opened fire and killed a fishman, then turned around and ran when a ROC warship showed up. So far all China did was to use water canons.

I also understand why Philippines suddenly feel they should own Spartly islands. It is indeed the distance.

The bottomline is, no one is absolutely right or wrong in this dispute. Yet the mainstream propaganda is clearly anti-China thanks to the US government's policy of suppressing any potential superpowers before they become too strong. You will not hear any actual factors support China in any of these news. It doesn't mean you can't dig deeper to see the facts which are left out intentionally by all the mass media. All the information are actually available online from credible sources.

One example when they had the actual location of the Chinese oil rig "off Vietnam" in one piece of news, I looked it up on the map and found the location was in fact closer to China than it was to Vietnam. It can only take people with independent thinking skills to see all the holes in the daily propaganda.
 

Corzhens

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Foreign ministers of the G7 (Group of Seven) advanced economies said they strongly opposed provocation in the East and South China Seas which angered China which is locked in territorial disputes with Philippines and Vietnam. China released a statement urging the G7 member states not to take sides on the issue as per their previous commitment involving territorial disputes.


Read more:Beijing angry over G7 statement on sea row | Inquirer Global Nation
 

Corzhens

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China blasts new US-Philippine military cooperation

China says it will defend its interests and accuses the US and Philippines of militarizing the region. The reaction was on the announcement of that the US will be sending troops and planes for increased joint sea and air patrols in the disputed are of the South China Sea. China said that the action of the partnership of the 2 allied countries in militarizing the area is like harboring a cold war mentality.


Read more:China blasts new US-Philippine military cooperation | Inquirer Global Nation
 

Zepplin

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Wasn't there people originally on the contested island before all this kicked off?
Who did they see themselves as?

Like the Falklands, it would be up to the residents if democracy was being followed.

But then if the island was without people, then I guess it goes on geography and proximity to nearest country (if they'd even want it).

Not sure what could be done with what the intentions are of the Chinese.
That would be up to the UN if any laws are being broken.
But I don't imagine China haven't weighed up the risk in sanctions and gain in rewards with owning the islands, this would've all been well planned out years ago.
 

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