Coronavirus, is it a bioweapon that got out of the lab in Wuhan? | World Defense

Coronavirus, is it a bioweapon that got out of the lab in Wuhan?

mtime7

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Wondering what you guys think, I know a lot medicos are questioning how fast and persistent the spread of this, I have even spoke to one trained at Fort Detrick, and they seem certain this isn't natural
 

Scorpion

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Industrial espionage. The virus was transferred from the US and developed in Wuhan. Somehow it got out either intentional or none.
 

mtime7

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yea, there is a difference in stealing technology, developing it, and understanding how not to kill everyone with it. This wasn't connected when I originally posted it, Scorpion made me think of it.

 

BATMAN

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yea, there is a difference in stealing technology, developing it, and understanding how not to kill everyone with it. This wasn't connected when I originally posted it, Scorpion made me think of it.

First measure should be secure keeping of such tech. if you like to call it a tech.
Whole world future is in trouble and nothing can be said conclusively, if it was accidental or by design.
Following the development of spread and containment in China, it doesn't appeared to me a deliberate spread.
How it spread in rest of the developed world, specially US, reflects negligence, to say the least.
 

mtime7

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I guess you could call it negligence, in the US we call it freedom. If you go outside to walk your dog, no person from the state will show up to beat you dog to death with a pipe and tell you next time it will be you.

Freedom can be very costly, but we hold it in high regard, and guard it with our lives. People before us gave their lives so we would have it.
 
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mtime7

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Hong Kong (CNN)China has imposed restrictions on the publication of academic research on the origins of the novel coronavirus, according to a central government directive and online notices published by two Chinese universities, that have since been removed from the web.
Under the new policy, all academic papers on Covid-19 will be subject to extra vetting before being submitted for publication. Studies on the origin of the virus will receive extra scrutiny and must be approved by central government officials, according to the now-deleted posts.
A medical expert in Hong Kong who collaborated with mainland researchers to publish a clinical analysis of Covid-19 cases in an international medical journal said his work did not undergo such vetting in February.
The increased scrutiny appears to be the latest effort by the Chinese government to control the narrative on the origins of the coronavirus pandemic, which has claimed more than 100,000 lives and sickened 1.7 million people worldwide since it first broke out in the Chinese city of Wuhan in December.
Since late January, Chinese researchers have published a series of Covid-19 studies in influential international medical journals. Some findings about early coronavirus cases -- such as when human-to-human transition first appeared -- have raised questions over the official government account of the outbreak and sparked controversy on Chinese social media.
And now, Chinese authorities appear to be tightening their grip on the publication of Covid-19 research.
A Chinese researcher who spoke on condition of anonymity due to fear of retaliation said the move was a worrying development that would likely obstruct important scientific research.
"I think it is a coordinated effort from (the) Chinese government to control (the) narrative, and paint it as if the outbreak did not originate in China," the researcher told CNN. "And I don't think they will really tolerate any objective study to investigate the origination of this disease."
CNN has reached out to China's Foreign Ministry for comment.
Chinese President Xi Jinping inspects scientific research on the coronavirus during his visit to the Academy of Military Medical Sciences in Beijing on March 2.


Chinese President Xi Jinping inspects scientific research on the coronavirus during his visit to the Academy of Military Medical Sciences in Beijing on March 2.
Increased scrutiny
According to the directive issued by the Ministry of Education's science and technology department, "academic papers about tracing the origin of the virus must be strictly and tightly managed."
The directive lays out layers of approval for these papers, starting with the academic committees at universities. They are then required to be sent to the Education Ministry's science and technology department, which then forwards the papers to a task force under the State Council for vetting. Only after the universities hear back from the task force can the papers be submitted to journals.
Other papers on Covid-19 will be vetted by universities' academic committees, based on conditions such as the "academic value" of the study, and whether the "timing for publishing" is right.
The directive is based on instructions issued during a March 25 meeting held by the State Council's task force on the prevention and control of Covid-19, it said.
The document was first posted Friday morning on the website of the Fudan University in Shanghai, one of China's leading universities.
When CNN called a contact number left at the end of the notice, a staff member of the Education ministry's science and technology department confirmed they had issued the directive.
"It is not supposed to be made public -- it is an internal document," said the person, who refused to reveal his name.
A few hours later, the Fudan University page was taken down.
The China University of Geoscience in Wuhan also posted a similar notice about the extra vetting on Covid-19 papers on its website. The page has since been deleted, but a cached version of it remains accessible.
The Chinese researcher who spoke to CNN said the notice was issued a few days ago, adding that only Covid-19 research was subject to the additional checks.
David Hui Shu-cheong, a respiratory medicine expert at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, said he did not encounter any additional vetting when he and a team of mainland Chinese researchers published a clinical analysis of Covid-19 cases in the New England Journal of Medicine in February.
"The process was really simple then," he told CNN over the phone.
Hui said he was still revising the draft of the paper until 3 a.m. on the day it was due for submission, and the paper was sent to the NEJM by midday.
"There was completely no restriction at all," he said.
"I don't know if it is because some researchers published something that is considered sensitive domestically in China. (I'm) not sure if it is because of the controversy about the origin of the virus later, and the non-sensitive stuff becomes sensitive too."
Laboratory technicians test samples of the coronavirus at a lab in Hengyang in China's central Henan province.


Laboratory technicians test samples of the coronavirus at a lab in Hengyang in China's central Henan province.

Origin of the virus
In late December, Wuhan reported the first cases of the coronavirus, linked by authorities to a seafood market in the city. Scientists in China and the West have said the virus is likely to have originated in bats and jumped to humans from an intermediate host -- just like its cousin that caused the SARS epidemic in 2002 and 2003.
However, parts of Chinese social media and even the country's government appear to have launched a concerted campaign to question the origin of the virus.
Chinese officials and state media have repeatedly stressed that there has been no conclusion on the exact origin of the virus. Last month, Zhao Lijian, a spokesperson of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, promoted a conspiracy on Twitter that the virus had originated in the US and was brought to China by the US military.
Yanzhong Huang, a senior fellow for global health at the Washington-based Council on Foreign Relations, said the origin of the coronavirus has become a politically sensitive topic in China.
"It is no surprise that the government seeks to control related scientific research so that the findings do not challenge its own narrative on the origin of the virus and the government response to the crisis," Professor Huang told CNN.
"The danger is that when scientific research is subject to the needs of those in power, it further undermines the credibility of the government narrative, making accusations of underreporting and misinformation more convincing."
In China, research papers on the coronavirus are already subjected to layers of vetting after they are submitted to Chinese academic journals, according to an editor at a Chinese medical journal.
Wang Lan, the editorial director of the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology, said all Covid-19 papers have to go through an approval process for "major topics" after being submitted to her journal.
"It has always been the case," she told CNN. "They have to be approved by three levels of organizations. It's a long process."
The Chinese researcher who requested anonymity said under the new restrictions, however, coronavirus research that contradicted the official narrative could be suppressed by Beijing.
"I think the importance is that the international scientific community must realize that any journal or manuscripts from (a) Chinese research institution has kind of been double-checked by the government," said the researcher. "It is important for them to know there are extra steps between independent scientific research and final publication."
CNN's Steven Jiang and Alexandra Lin contributed reporting.
 

mtime7

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First measure should be secure keeping of such tech. if you like to call it a tech.
Whole world future is in trouble and nothing can be said conclusively, if it was accidental or by design.
Following the development of spread and containment in China, it doesn't appeared to me a deliberate spread.
How it spread in rest of the developed world, specially US, reflects negligence, to say the least.
I was just cleaning up around the house, and your statement rolled around in my head, mind you I was up late last night drinking, made some statements on here I normally wouldn't and am still feeling it.
But if say a man in the middle east specialized in building armored trucks, he was great at it, these other people don't want to learn how to build such things but think it easier to learn to steal them. They go as far as to get their people in the factory to learn how to steal them, one day they steal one. They don't know how to properly operate it and as they go down the rode they careen into a bus stop full of people killing a dozen. Who do you blame? The people standing at the bus stop, for not getting out of the way? The builder of the truck, for not having it secure enough from the people who only work to steal it? Or the people that steal it? Seems you want to blame everyone but the thief.
 

BATMAN

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I was just cleaning up around the house, and your statement rolled around in my head, mind you I was up late last night drinking, made some statements on here I normally wouldn't and am still feeling it.
But if say a man in the middle east specialized in building armored trucks, he was great at it, these other people don't want to learn how to build such things but think it easier to learn to steal them. They go as far as to get their people in the factory to learn how to steal them, one day they steal one. They don't know how to properly operate it and as they go down the rode they careen into a bus stop full of people killing a dozen. Who do you blame? The people standing at the bus stop, for not getting out of the way? The builder of the truck, for not having it secure enough from the people who only work to steal it? Or the people that steal it? Seems you want to blame everyone but the thief.
I'm not holding anyone responsible and my statements were in regard to COVID. I said; available info. is not enough to decide who's guilty. If it is China or US... so jury is still out there.

I took as a reference Wuhan outbreak, where my impression is that they can't be blamed for deliberate leak, i.e., from Wuhan virology center (if that's what we believe as source), i exclude possibility of accident, because in that nature of business, there's care all around, in design of building, equipment, handling protocols, walking in and out. etc.

My other remark was on technology stealing from US, which as well was in connection to Corona virus. There again i /world expect a fool proof security and safety measures being in practice from country like US, when they are researching on deadly and contagious virus at some super secret lab. Example of truck doesn't fit in.

Another remark was of negligence, there i see developed world taking precautions quite a bit late. At least that's how the debates are going on in Europe. May be your people would ask similar questions later.
 

BATMAN

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mtime7

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What in the world does Trump have to do with this? Secondly, if we are going with theft, no one thinks this was deliberate. Personally I don't think the US was working on this, this a Chinese thing, but if they did steal it, they are not very smart about keeping things safe, they aren't good at keeping things safe at anything. Life has little meaning to them, they can kill millions of their own people with out much care, they have done this in the past. This wouldn't be the first time something escaped their labs, and my post wasn't about placing blame, it was to find out what others thought. Again, I know there are people here that love the Chinese, for whatever reason. It was to find out whether you folks think it escaped a lab a few hundred meters from the market, or whether it came from the market, but you personally are always looking for a way to blame the US, for anything, pot hole in the rode or whatever.
 

BATMAN

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No one is blaming US as source of virus.
How trump is being held responsible is given in the news link above, and this is same story all across Europe. i.e. delay in precautionary measures.
It is scientific research, that suggest virus in Wuhan is different in it's construction, than the virus in US.

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mtime7

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No one is blaming US as source of virus.
How trump is being held responsible is given in the news link above, and this is same story all across Europe. i.e. delay in precautionary measures.
It is scientific research, that suggest virus in Wuhan is different in it's construction, than the virus in US.

View attachment 12261
The same Europe which didn't close travel with China, this all goes back to the same thing, Who are you blaming, I wasn't blaming anyone, but you are looking to blame the US for what ever this is. My question was where do you guys think this came from, natural or from a lab? But you want to blame the US, Trump; or anyone from the US, even though you admit it did not come from US. It's the same as you saying the US is in bed with the Ayatollas, and they work hand in hand. Who is calling the shots?
 

Falcon29

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I don't think so but I know China is scrambling to deal with post-Coronavirus fallout. They are communist but they aren't stupid and won't allow this situation to repeat again. I don't think they understood severity of the virus in initial stages of breakout and will take advice of their medical professionals with more open hands from now on.

However, they still will face pressure , especially from the US that wants to decrease their standing/influence.
 

Scorpion

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Lets get rid of this virus first then we can debate who spread it.
 
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