F-16 vs F-15 dogfight

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open link to view dog fight video
https://fighterjetsworld.com/2018/03/24/f-16-vs-f-15-dogfight-operation-red-flag/

General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon
The General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon is a single-engine supersonic multirole fighter aircraft originally developed by General Dynamics (now Lockheed Martin) for the United States Air Force (USAF).


Designed as an air superiority day fighter, it evolved into a successful all-weather multirole aircraft. Over 4,500 aircraft have been built since production was approved in 1976.

The Fighting Falcon’s key features include a frameless bubble canopy for better visibility, side-mounted control stick to ease control while maneuvering, a seat reclined 30 degrees to reduce the effect of g-forces on the pilot, and the first use of a relaxed static stability/fly-by-wire flight control system which helps to make it a nimble aircraft.

The F-16 has an internal M61 Vulcan cannon and 11 locations for mounting weapons and other mission equipment. The F-16’s official name is “Fighting Falcon”, but “Viper” is commonly used by its pilots and crews, due to a perceived resemblance to a viper snake as well as the Colonial Viper starfighter on Battlestar Galactica

McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle is an American twin-engine, all-weather tactical fighter aircraft designed by McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) to gain and maintain air supremacy in aerial combat. Following reviews of proposals, the United States Air Force selected McDonnell Douglas’ design in 1967 to meet the service’s need for a dedicated air superiority fighter. The Eagle first flew in July 1972, and entered service in 1976. It is among the most successful modern fighters, with over 100 victories and no losses in aerial combat, with the majority of the kills by the Israeli Air Force.

The Eagle has been exported to Israel, Japan, and Saudi Arabia. The F-15 was originally envisioned as a pure air superiority aircraft. Its design included a secondary ground-attack capability that was largely unused. The aircraft design proved flexible enough that an all-weather strike derivative, the F-15E Strike Eagle, an improved and enhanced version which was later developed, entered service in 1989 and has been exported to several nations. As of 2017, the aircraft is being produced in different variants with production set to end in 2022.
 

NightWolf

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Slovakia is on track to purchase 14 Lockheed Martin f-16V fighters to replace its MiG-29 jets. Along this, Slovakia also expects to receive five more Sikorsky UH-60M Black Hawk helicopters, which completes its planned purchase of nine. According to the media sources, the long-term plans call for at least 18 multi-role helicopters to replace Soviet-sedigned Mi-17 rotorcraft, though no platform has been selected as yet.
 

Scorpion

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Here is the video in the link.


My take is that the F-15 would chew the f-16 spit it out and catch it again. The F-16 may score well in air maneuverability but not in a dogfight.
 

NightWolf

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The U.S. State Department has cleared Morocco for a major increase to its F-16 fleet. The two potential deals cover the purchase of 25 F-16 C/D Block 72 as well as upgrades to the country's 23 F-16 to the move advanced F-16V Block 52+. Combined, the two sales could net American contractors roughly 4.8 billion $.
 

Signalian

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Speed, avionics, radar.
RCS of F-16 is much lower than that of F-15. F-16's avionics, EW suite and radar have caught up especially in block 60, block 70 and V-upgrade. probably in Block 52 also except AESA Radar. Speed depends upon altitude, F-16 is not disadvantaged at all anymore.
 

WebMaster

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Speed, avionics, radar.

Theoretically :-Y

RCS of F-16 is much lower than that of F-15. F-16's avionics, EW suite and radar have caught up especially in block 60, block 70 and V-upgrade. probably in Block 52 also except AESA Radar. Speed depends upon altitude, F-16 is not disadvantaged at all anymore.
Agreed.
 

Scorpion

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RCS of F-16 is much lower than that of F-15. F-16's avionics, EW suite and radar have caught up especially in block 60, block 70 and V-upgrade. probably in Block 52 also except AESA Radar. Speed depends upon altitude, F-16 is not disadvantaged at all anymore.
It depends, if a dog fight to take place at high altitude, the f-15 would have an advantage in terms of speed. Low altitude, the f-16 would perform better due to its TWR/WL. The block 70 has seen a lot of improvement not doubt but as webby mentioned, theoretically the f-15 would preform better but in real dog fight it depends on many factors.
 

Signalian

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It depends, if a dog fight to take place at high altitude, the f-15 would have an advantage in terms of speed. Low altitude, the f-16 would perform better due to its TWR/WL. The block 70 has seen a lot of improvement not doubt but as webby mentioned, theoretically the f-15 would preform better but in real dog fight it depends on many factors.
High altitude is mostly BVR combat. Both aircraft will climb high to fire BVR missiles at a long range from each other. F-15 may climb faster but will get detected first due to higher RCS and could potentially get shot at first. Older blocks of F-16 didn't have a long range radar, in newer blocks, F-16 has better radars. Even then Aim-120 has to be fired at certain range to achieve a kill. F-15 usually carries 4 BVR +4 WVR, F-16 usually carries 4 BVR+ 2 WVR AAM's. Both have good ECM pods for jamming and towed decoys to cater for missiles which come close enough to the plane and cause damage. So even at high altitude, its anybody's game now.
Since you mentioned wing loading; Nominal wing loading cannot directly relate to maneuverability. F-16's horizontal tail is strongly loaded up, which provided additional lift. so F-16's angle of attack is lower. F-15's tails are down loaded, meaning the wing and fuselage have to provide additional lift. The angle of attack will be higher for F-15, however F-16's fuselage also provides good lift, around 35-40% of total lift. In WVR combat, the G limit gives a certain edge to F-16 and leading edge flaps. F-16 G limit is significantly higher than F-15 (F-16 = 9, F-15 = 7.2) and F-15's G limit is automatically limited. F-16 pilot can pull left/right to the limit keeping his senses focused on dog fight, whereas the F-15 pilot has to monitor his G's to prevent Over G. The use of HMD and off bore missiles could again tilt the favour towards any side at low altitude or WVR combat.
This means pilot's training is now the most important factor. Then the supplementary factors of AEW and other supporting aircrafts.
 

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@Scorpion @Signalian

1) BVR is all about who blinks first, so lets leave that for now.

2) WVR is where a pilots mettle is tested, lets discuss this for now?

Best Regards
 

Eagle1

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That is new to me, I think the F-15 can also withstand a G force of 9 is it not?
There are a couple of factors to consider:

1) The max G limit a pilot can take, and for how long before he blacks out. Major reason why GCAS - Ground Collison Avoidance System is standard on the Blk60 & 70.

2) F15 C/D, E and EX all have the same shape, but very different flying characteristics.

3) The Max G limit that an a/c is allowed to fly, depends directly on the payload it is carrying.

Regards
 

Scorpion

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High altitude is mostly BVR combat. Both aircraft will climb high to fire BVR missiles at a long range from each other. F-15 may climb faster but will get detected first due to higher RCS and could potentially get shot at first. Older blocks of F-16 didn't have a long range radar, in newer blocks, F-16 has better radars. Even then Aim-120 has to be fired at certain range to achieve a kill. F-15 usually carries 4 BVR +4 WVR, F-16 usually carries 4 BVR+ 2 WVR AAM's. Both have good ECM pods for jamming and towed decoys to cater for missiles which come close enough to the plane and cause damage. So even at high altitude, its anybody's game now.
Since you mentioned wing loading; Nominal wing loading cannot directly relate to maneuverability. F-16's horizontal tail is strongly loaded up, which provided additional lift. so F-16's angle of attack is lower. F-15's tails are down loaded, meaning the wing and fuselage have to provide additional lift. The angle of attack will be higher for F-15, however F-16's fuselage also provides good lift, around 35-40% of total lift. In WVR combat, the G limit gives a certain edge to F-16 and leading edge flaps. F-16 G limit is significantly higher than F-15 (F-16 = 9, F-15 = 7.2) and F-15's G limit is automatically limited. F-16 pilot can pull left/right to the limit keeping his senses focused on dog fight, whereas the F-15 pilot has to monitor his G's to prevent Over G. The use of HMD and off bore missiles could again tilt the favour towards any side at low altitude or WVR combat.
This means pilot's training is now the most important factor. Then the supplementary factors of AEW and other supporting aircrafts.
The RCS doesn't matter, it depends on the payload carried. The F-15 can detect at a wider range and the speed gives it an advantage when firing. The radar capability can lock on from a distance and keeps on the lock for a wider range. F-15 can also handle 9 G, Pilots are told to keep it at 7.2 G to maximize airframe life thats all.
 

Signalian

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The RCS doesn't matter, it depends on the payload carried. The F-15 can detect at a wider range and the speed gives it an advantage when firing. The radar capability can lock on from a distance and keeps on the lock for a wider range. F-15 can also handle 9 G, Pilots are told to keep it at 7.2 G to maximize airframe life thats all.
RCS matters, payload is not the only factor since F-18 E/F has smaller RCS than F-18 C/D even when it has more hard points. It also helps in locking-on to a target. F-16's radars range has also improved comparable to F-15's radar , so F-16 carries the same advantage when firing. APG-66 is hardly used in modern AF's now. As for keeping a lock on, F-16 ECM pods are designed to continuously break the lock so again F-15 gets no advantage here again. As for G's, F-16 will pull more.
 
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