What is the chance for Greece against the Turkish navy.
You are implying we are observing Islam so you should come up with plenty of reasons. I will start with a simple but grave example, we do not have shura based Islamic system and our rulers came into power with the help of colonial powers. These rulers are clan based and there is no shura that chose them.You said:
If you can elaborate pls.
I asked you to give me one example where we(as in the United States) did one positive thing in the Middle East(minus Israel) aimed at developing the nations there and/or assisting them in their security. You could not give me one. So maybe you're indifferent towards that but it doesn't make my point 'not constructive'.I don't think it's a good idea to ask him to elaborate. Some people want an argument, it's not constructive with some people.
Well that's what you believe, that's not what the Prophet or God ordained. So are you not Muslim? If this is how you guys who rule us(the clans and their supporters) think, then you are not fit to rule Muslim nations and must be overthrown. God/religion leads people to the right path and produces God conscious people. And a God conscious Muslim needs to rule Muslims and not the other way around. Those God conscious Muslims need to work to develop their nations and provide security for their people. And work to produce a healthy society that observes laws of Islam. We can't have non-Islamic norms or lifestyle.I do not believe we should interject God or religion when it comes to politics. What brings us together is common interest period.
You assume I agree with US policy in the Middle EastI asked you to give me one example where we(as in the United States) did one positive thing in the Middle East(minus Israel) aimed at developing the nations there and/or assisting them in their security. You could not give me one. So maybe you're indifferent towards that but it doesn't make my point 'not constructive'.
I don't my friend, but it was just a point I wanted to make with our earlier discussion. To be honest it is not about agree to disagree but rather that about right and wrong. We have wronged the people there and could have developed a great relationship with them and realized our economic potential had we not adopted these strange policies for decades.You assume I agree with US policy in the Middle East
So you are implying that we should overthrow those so called rulers and turn the entire region into another chaos?You are implying we are observing Islam so you should come up with plenty of reasons. I will start with a simple but grave example, we do not have shura based Islamic system and our rulers came into power with the help of colonial powers. These rulers are clan based and there is no shura that chose them.
Well said, the thing is many Muslims associate Islam with corruption or violence today. They think Islam is like the Saudi scholars in the 80's who they believe were employed by the government for a 'sahwa' or 'awakening' program set up by the government to counter Iranian Islamic revolution. Or they associate it with Al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood or ISIS. So when it comes to Muslim Brotherhood they see it as like democratic Muslims who just want power. And with AQ/ISIS they think fanatics and violence. And the other 'Islam' ie the governments employing scholars to get people to cherish their rule. So we can't blame such Muslims when they see all of these associated with supposed puritanical way of Islam.Politics without religion is just secularism and man made laws. We are Muslims not westerners. Our religion encompasses things all the way from personal deeds up to how we should govern.
You can read a book about the Prophet's (pbuh) life and you can clearly see that religion and politics are mixed. The same with the rashidun caliphate afterwards. And they were the best generation of Muslims. Secularism and Islam are polar opposites, they don't mix. Turkey is a good example of what removing religion from politics does to a nation. Those guys even banned hijab at one point until Erdogan reversed it.
I do not think now is a good time to overthrow them. I see many of them toppling themselves. Whether by angering their populations or getting dragged into wars. What I am saying is they are not allowed nor fit to rule Muslims and in perfect case scenario would be overthrown long ago. But so many Muslims are misguided and support them so it makes it chaotic to try that today. And it is not good to create fitnah it in this environment.So you are implying that we should overthrow those so called rulers and turn the entire region into another chaos?
The Saudi state is 300 years old my friend, if it did not rule according to the well of the people it wont last this long. I do not know why you assume Saudi Arabia has the capacity to fight left and right in the neighboring Muslim countries and have them in order! We in Saudi Arabia live in an Islamic country that rules based on the ruling of Islam. Why do I have to go around and impose that on others? Why should we also bear the responsibility of what is happening in the Muslim countries? We live in a different world now. Every country has its own leaders and it would be illogical to interfere in those countries and have them go against their well. We can talk to bridge the gaps and reach common interest but nothing we can do pass that. While I understand your zeal but most of what you are asking is very inapplicable. I think what should be done is to have a dialogue to discuss the challenges we face and probably come to a conclusion but overall the most Islamic country on face of the earth is Saudi Arabia.Well that's what you believe, that's not what the Prophet or God ordained. So are you not Muslim? If this is how you guys who rule us(the clans and their supporters) think, then you are not fit to rule Muslim nations and must be overthrown. God/religion leads people to the right path and produces God conscious people. And a God conscious Muslim needs to rule Muslims and not the other way around. Those God conscious Muslims need to work to develop their nations and provide security for their people. And work to produce a healthy society that observes laws of Islam. We can't have non-Islamic norms or lifestyle.
Non-Islamic lifestyle doesn't mean drinking, premarital relations, etc.... You don't have to do that to go into a non-Islamic lifestyle. It simply means losing track of the purpose of life and having beliefs that life is about enjoyement/fun and God is in second place behind all of that.
Politics is different than social rulings. You basically act according to your moral anchors that is driven from Islam when it comes to politics.Politics without religion is just secularism and man made laws. We are Muslims not westerners. Our religion encompasses things all the way from personal deeds up to how we should govern.
You can read a book about the Prophet's (pbuh) life and you can clearly see that religion and politics are mixed. The same with the rashidun caliphate afterwards. And they were the best generation of Muslims. Secularism and Islam are polar opposites, they don't mix. Turkey is a good example of what removing religion from politics does to a nation. Those guys even banned hijab at one point until Erdogan reversed it.
I am talking about greater Arab world and not Saudi Arabia, Scorpion.The Saudi state is 300 years old my friend, if it did not rule according to the well of the people it wont last this long. I do not know why you assume Saudi Arabia has the capacity to fight left and right in the neighboring Muslim countries and have them in order! We in Saudi Arabia live in an Islamic country that rules based on the ruling of Islam. Why do I have to go around and impose that on others? Why should we also bear the responsibility of what is happening in the Muslim countries? We live in a different world now. Every country has its own leaders and it would be illogical to interfere in those countries and have them go against their well. We can talk to bridge the gaps and reach common interest but nothing we can do pass that. While I understand your zeal but most of what you are asking is very inapplicable. I think what should be done is to have a dialogue to discuss the challenges we face and probably come to a conclusion but overall the most Islamic country on face of the earth is Saudi Arabia.
I agree with the bolded part, but what I don't agree with is that leaders in greater Arab world act according to moral anchors driven from Islam. I don't think they are much driven by Islam when it comes to their decision making in general.Politics is different than social rulings. You basically act according to your moral anchors that is driven from Islam when it comes to politics.
What do you mean by politics then bro? I'm confused. It looks you agree with me but at the same time you don't.Politics is different than social rulings. You basically act according to your moral anchors that is driven from Islam when it comes to politics.