How Did India Master Rocket Technology, But Fail To Make A Fighter Jet Engine? | World Defense

How Did India Master Rocket Technology, But Fail To Make A Fighter Jet Engine?

Scorpion

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India has very sophisticated missile tech and have cooperated with Russia in missiles field for ages but when India decided to make its own fighter jet it used a foreign made jet engine. My question is How did India master rocket technology but fails To make a fighter jet engine? I was watching a YU asking same question but in another language I don't understand.

India missiles.jpg
 

TsAr

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I think its more about priorities.....
 

AliYusuf

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From a complete layman's perspective, Rocket propulsion is much simpler in design than a constantly re-usable jet-engine. Rockets only have exhaust where as jets have intakes and exhausts. Different type of metallurgical proficiency is required in the two types of engines. That is why many country have missile programs (like Pakistan) but they do not have any engines programs. Space Rockets are a more complex and powerful version of the military missiles, but the principles are the same. The design to utilize the propellant (fuel) is simpler in Rockets than in jet engines.

That is my very limited understanding on the topic. And I hope somebody would increase my knowledge on the topic and correct it by blowing holes in my perception presented above.
 

BATMAN

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There are many European and American turbine manufacturers working in India from decades and using Indian manpower for servicing world wide.
Most of that experience was used by Indians to embark on engine development program, and again with technical advise of SNECMA and GE.
It's really surprising to see, why Indians couldn't make it through, despite all available technical support from west.
My guess, it got to do more with Indian attitude of taking credit of other's hard work, so basically the co-ordination with western firms didn't bore any fruit.
 

BATMAN

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India's missile technology has also been a failure, here they had technical support from Russia.
 
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My guess, it got to do more with Indian attitude of taking credit of other's hard work, so basically the co-ordination with western firms didn't bore any fruit.
My experience working with Indians has been different. The caste system is hardwired into them, it will take a few more generations to weed it out of them. Most engineers and engineering managers you find will have come from lower classes. These castes have been hardwired to follow instructions without question. You give them something to work on, they'll do - to the letter! If something is unclear, incomplete or outright wrong, they won't question it - they will do it, and half-ass it.

It's very difficult to make them learn anything. That's the reason that despite all these ToT projects, very little of that knowledge has actually transferred.
 

AliYusuf

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The caste system is hardwired into them, it will take a few more generations to weed it out of them. Most engineers and engineering managers you find will have come from lower classes. These castes have been hardwired to follow instructions without question. You give them something to work on, they'll do - to the letter! If something is unclear, incomplete or outright wrong, they won't question it - they will do it, and half-ass it.
Not so much in the field of IT & Software Development. Especially people hailing from West Bengal, Mumbai & the IT community in Bangaluru/Bangalore. Caste system has come back much stronger with a vengeance in the last decade or so with the advent of the first BJP regime under Vajpayee. But the core problem is the interference of politicians and their lackeys in the management of such tech institutions and ventures. Hamara Bharat mahaan is the true culprit.
 
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Not so much in the field of IT & Software Development. Especially people hailing from West Bengal, Mumbai & the IT community in Bangaluru/Bangalore. Caste system has come back much stronger with a vengeance in the last decade or so with the advent of the first BJP regime under Vajpayee. But the core problem is the interference of politicians and their lackeys in the management of such tech institutions and ventures. Hamara Bharat mahaan is the true culprit.
I was specifically referring to IT / Software :)

Though I think you're saying pretty much the same thing I am.
 

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a lot of us tend to forget that the Kaveri engine was actually orginially not planned to begin with for the LCA Tejas, the first engine planned was the F404-GE-F2J3 and was highly successful, however the manufacturer, General Electric, declined for India to obtain a production agreement, so India's GTRE teamed up with France's SNECMA to develop the "indigenious" Kaveri engine.
the main reasons for the delays/partial cancellation of the K-Engine is because of this
1. ab-initio development of state of the art gas turbine tech
2. technical/technological complexities
3.Lack of availability of critical equipment & materials and denial of technologies by the technologically advanced countries.
4. Lack of availability of test facilities in the country necessitating testing abroad.

5. Non availability of skilled/technically specialized manpower
However, with the success of the sell of 36 Rafales, France is planning on spending

€1 billion on developing the Kaveri engine.

moving on from that, their missile tech was mostly provided by the Russians, most rumours indicate that the Russians provided them technology from either the Topol or Topol-M (not sure if it's true but that's what is debated), and that's why they are so advanced, the foreign aid, if they done by themselves they'd still be lagging behind.
 

Kargil 2.0

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There are many European and American turbine manufacturers working in India from decades and using Indian manpower for servicing world wide.
Most of that experience was used by Indians to embark on engine development program, and again with technical advise of SNECMA and GE.
It's really surprising to see, why Indians couldn't make it through, despite all available technical support from west.
My guess, it got to do more with Indian attitude of taking credit of other's hard work, so basically the co-ordination with western firms didn't bore any fruit.
servicing is different from actual R&D... building a high performance jet engine for current & future generation of fighter jet require huge investment not just capital but intellectual & it take time for both & we will reach there.
 

Kargil 2.0

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India ground tested a 2 diameter 12 tone ester- based solid propellent motor back in 2017 which is nothing but first stage of K-5 SLBM.
pic.JPG

this development will pave the way for building a SLBM in league of of trident, M 51 & Bulava....this development also show that India has achieved a sophisticated level of miniaturisation of not just missile itself but its nuclear payload as well. K -5 will arm upcoming S 4 class submarine

a5a6slbm.JPG

K -5 will also be India primary deterrent until much sophisticated k 6 arrive in 2035-40 timeframe for S-5 class submarine.
 

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