Is there such an thing as an Islamic Civilization? | World Defense

Is there such an thing as an Islamic Civilization?

Falcon29

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A lot of critics nowadays assert that the reason Muslims are where they are today is due to excessive identification/reliance on faith and in some cases complete disassociation of their national identity. What I mean by this, is instead of identifying a Muslim Empire as a Arab, Turkish or Persian civilization, Muslims identify it as Islamic. Islam as a religion, doesn't put emphasis on nationality, in fact it focuses mostly on faith that can be attained by anyone. However, some see this a problem. Because if Muslims of various national backgrounds identify moreso with Islam rather than their history/achievements behind their background then this causes a identity crisis. What this means is that Muslims don't really know what culture to follow since Islam is indeed a way of life but not a culture. So what happens is that they blend Islam with something like Persian , Turkish, Indonesian and Arab culture as some examples. This shows that Muslims try to implement Islam as a culture when it really isn't, so they follow some traditions pertaining to their nationality but overall they are struggling to have a modern way of life or any sense of belonging to a culture.

Why is this? Because Muhammad(SAW) the Prophet in Islam did not appreciate Arab culture. Arab culture, while they were nomads had an Arab way of life which included consumption of alcohol, dance rituals, pride in their Arab/tribal identity, interest in poetry, polytheism, no belief in after life or following set of laws during this life, etc....Muhammad once he succeeded in delivering the message of Islam eventually banished almost of this. In Islam drinking is not allowed, pre-marital relations with opposite sex is not allowed, listening to music isn't allowed, having too much fun isn't allowed, you need to pray 5 times a day, you shouldn't watch bad tv shows or listen to bad mesages in society(movies). Essentially it is very strict religion, Arabs at that time were content with it because they had simple lifestlye and socalized a lot with each other.

In the modern world though, observing Islam as it is is very difficult not just for Western Muslims but Muslims in the East. Because music, partying, pre-marital relations, movies, etc....have become norms. So what happens is Muslims not sure what to do follow this culture completely, so they are essentially Muslim by name. But the Muslims who try observing Islam have a difficult time, because they can't find people who relate with their interests, not even other Muslims. So these Muslims either begin questioning their faith and God or they become more extreme with their views. And this is why some Muslims are joining ISIS. Because remember the people who compromise ISIS aren't just upset at political status quo in region but more importantly they notice that religion has lost its prominence in the world. And that secularism is the superior way of life, and it is being chosen by all people around world including Muslims. So ISIS realizes Abrahamic religion is in danger and with this insurgency they are trying to restore its prominence by showing that religion can be an alternative and hence they want to prove it by taking over the Middle East. This is why they are resorting to terror attacks such as one we saw in France recently. Because they are very desperate to prove that the way of life according to Abrahamic faiths is not man-made and is compatible with humans.

So we are entering a phase in the world where there is a clash of civilzations not between Muslims and the West, but between Secularism and Strict Abrahamic way of life. So this means many if not most Muslims will be on the side of the West. However this thread wasn't do analyze this clash, or predict how it will ensure. It was to make my point that I don't believe there is such a thing as Islamic civilization, it is simply not a culture and hence it can't survive today without use of force. As all religions(Christianity and Judaism have no prominence anymore because humans prefer Secularism). That doesn't mean I doubt God. I believe in God but I always ask myself what was the purpose of this? Did God really want humanity to choose between him and Secularism? Is this how the world will play off in the coming decades? A war between people who believe religion should dominate and people who want secularism to dominate?

In Islam, Muhammad spoke the words:
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.


These words make Muhammad even more interesting to me. He is acknowledging that life if following Islam is pretty much a 'prison' and for those that follow secularism it is fun, full of achievements, etc....So does God want us to experience a prison on this earth in order to reap salvation/his reward? And if so until how long? Because indeed I do feel as if I live in a prison where I don't belong obversving Islam.





 

Corzhens

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Even Christians have those values that require strict adherence to religious laws like indulgence in vices and other sinful acts. But like the Christians, Islam has created sects due to the differences in interpretation of the law. In that case, there is no unity of Muslims like the very same situation Christians are in. So I guess an Islamic civilization cannot be achieved, it will remain a dream for the idealists.
 

Falcon29

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Even Christians have those values that require strict adherence to religious laws like indulgence in vices and other sinful acts. But like the Christians, Islam has created sects due to the differences in interpretation of the law. In that case, there is no unity of Muslims like the very same situation Christians are in. So I guess an Islamic civilization cannot be achieved, it will remain a dream for the idealists.
That's not the point I'm trying to make. :)

Even with unity it doesn't make it a 'Islamic civilization'. Try re-reading it's a bit hard to understand what I meant. :)
 

djordjem87

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Too much fractions and disputes inside of the religion itself to become a civilization. I learned about true and first Islam to be the most peace pro religion. These so called Jihad fighters are rejected by some parts of Islamic church. Not everybody believes that your God wants you to kill. Those things are not in any holy book or in any religion in general. I do not know when did a religion became an organization of people who wants to conquer the world. That is what governments and military do. I realize that people are hiding behind religion in a search of their own goals. Using the fate of someone is very sinful thing to do.
 

Juanpeace

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I read your post and it seems you are having doubts on being a Muslim? Religious freedom does exist if you live in a non-Muslim Country. The dream of ISIS is not a civilization but a worldwide Caliphate, ruled by a Caliph or supreme religious leader. The ISIS believe in literal interpretation of the Holy Quran in the strictest sense. For example, If the book says "Blot out and eliminates sinners" it means total annihilation of man. woman and children. Combatants are not identified when extremists observe the written law. Corporal punishments are meted out and stoning people to death is normal for it is written in the book. Raqqa the city is an example of how a caliphate is ruled.
 

Falcon29

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I read your post and it seems you are having doubts on being a Muslim? Religious freedom does exist if you live in a non-Muslim Country. The dream of ISIS is not a civilization but a worldwide Caliphate, ruled by a Caliph or supreme religious leader. The ISIS believe in literal interpretation of the Holy Quran in the strictest sense. For example, If the book says "Blot out and eliminates sinners" it means total annihilation of man. woman and children. Combatants are not identified when extremists observe the written law. Corporal punishments are meted out and stoning people to death is normal for it is written in the book. Raqqa the city is an example of how a caliphate is ruled.
Not really doubt being a Muslim, I am a traditional yet liberal person if that makes sense to you. I follow Islam's rules but I have some beliefs of my own and I don't derive all my views off religion. However my post was meant to explain the current crisis inside Islam. As far as ISIS, they do not target woman and men but yes they do have religious ideology which they believe is a struggle to make sure Abrahamic religion prevails against secularism. Obviously that makes many feel they are targeted. But I'm not that type of person, I know ISIS arose out of middle eastern conflicts and I disagree with them but I don't exaggerate their aims.

My post is more related to philosophy, I am confused as to why God would want us to make religious society if he knows it will fail. It could be that he intended it to be that way. The Universe, our exisistence is confusing, and God does confuse me. I do believe in him though.
 

vegito12

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It would take a lot of work and some people use religion to do acts of violence or terror and think it is for the peace and also it is approved by god when in fact it is not and the other people don't agree with what the Jihadi people are doing, and some people are joining due to thinking these people are heroes. Some of these people claim to be from Moses or Abraham but act different and not like how these people were when they were in the earth, and religion is divided and also there is different ideas of religion in general. There is a lot of conflict and tension which can make people have different ideas and also this may never be resolved as there are different beliefs and some may be joining these sort of groups to run away from their own problems.
 
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