"No Fly List"

starshine

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Now that terrorism is in the news again, I wanted to ask you guys what you thought of the "No Fly List". It seems the US has many lists to keep track of potential dangerous citizens (such as the sex offenders register), but this one seems like the most random and less solid of all, since it does not seem to be based on any proof of a crime or of any malconduct.

Surely US airport security is tight and crazy enough as it is!

(infographic from Grounded: Life on the No Fly List | American Civil Liberties Union
 

missbishi

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Just wow! So they can put you on this list, which has no known criteria, without ever explaining why. Now I understand why this list exists but to never explain the reason for someone's inclusion is outrageous, especially with no fair way of clearing your name. Best of luck to the plaintiffs in the above lawsuit.
 

RobertNick

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Appears reasonable, for the accompanying reasons.

Arrangements.

Case, Canada Britain and the USA were establishing parts of NATO, accordingly we are vowed to shield each other. Having a no fly rundown is a mean of defending the USA from dangers.

Distrustfulness.

Buildup in the USA was the terrorists originated from Canada (which was ended up being totally false) - having a no fly rundown strengthens the likelihood that terrorists still won't be touching base in the USA from Canada.

Advertising.

USA as a nation beyond any doubt would like to be in the News connecting us to some assault against our own companion and neighbor; that is nothing americans need to be known for... rundown decreases shot of us being made to look terrible.

Wellbeing.

What America needs to be on a spot with a terrorist.

Household Terrorism.

Little of this exists in US, they should keep it that way.
 

orangesunset

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Like most things run by the government, sucks up lots of tax payer money, doesn't work. The anti-terrorism laws have cost the taxpayer how much, and is there any proof they are effective ?

The most sensible would be to put all politicians on a no fly list and then force them to reveal all their communciations to the public.
 

starshine

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@RobertNick: still a wonder how many times US decides to trade individual freedom against a sense of "vague general security". Land of the free and all, huh? Well I guess you are free to limit without fair and justified ground the liberties of others and be proud of it because it's their sacrifice for the good of the nation or something.

I personally am not a fan of this. I really think your airport security is over the top and ridiculous as it is, but at least it is reasonably fair (everyone goes through it; even if they have "random" searches and profiling, that is). But something so permanent that is not based on valid proof is uncalled for.
 

mizrael

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As long as the US continues to be the main player when it comes to antiterrorism, there will always be a flight restrictions on certain individual, we have to call it what it is, the US is not the most liked country throughout the world, and as long those facts are current. there will always be a level of paranoia.
 

Mackmax

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This is awful. They won't even tell you why you're on the list? How can they blacklist you without any justification? I understand why this list exists, and I support the idea, but the way it is being carried out is absolutely wrong. The first thing they ask you is about your religion instead of where you work, and your vast accomplishments. They don't care who you are, just what you look like, and yet they say this isn't religiously or racially biased..
I'm surprised terrorist groups don't start hiring blonde haired blue-eyed people do to their dirty work. Lord knows that a white guy would never get stopped under the suspicion that he is a terrorist.
 

WebMaster

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The part about religion is very disgusting. A terrorist is a terrorist regardless of his/her religion or race.
 

kd3pc

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But we must remain PC (politically correct) thus the religion questions remain. Sadly, both Christians and Muslims have perpetrated acts of terror on US soil, so that is where the questions start. And without the ability to Profile travelers, EVERYONE is treated the same.

Some of us fully ticketed contractors, working at the highest levels of US gov't for decades are still in the cattle lines, just like the tourists and kids traveling.

Fair? Effective? Options?
 

orangesunset

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The part about religion is very disgusting. A terrorist is a terrorist regardless of his/her religion or race.
George Washington and Jefferson where terrorists. They also believed that they should be allowed to live a certain type of life. The majority of Britain thought that the American way of life is barbaric and disgusting.

Personally I feel that the traditional Afghan and middle eastern way if life is disgusting and barbaric. But the majority of the middle east does not agree with me otherwise they would have overthrown their governments.

The question I ask is why are we meddling in these middle eastern countries ?

No fly lists are not appropriate for real Americans.
 

kd3pc

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No fly lists are not appropriate for real Americans.

Just who are these "real Americans"?

I was born here, ticketed out the ying for DOD/DOE/DIA/etc.....yet my butt stands in line to travel, just like everyone else.

What makes a "real American"?
 

kittyworker

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George Washington and Jefferson where terrorists. They also believed that they should be allowed to live a certain type of life. The majority of Britain thought that the American way of life is barbaric and disgusting.

Personally I feel that the traditional Afghan and middle eastern way if life is disgusting and barbaric. But the majority of the middle east does not agree with me otherwise they would have overthrown their governments.

The question I ask is why are we meddling in these middle eastern countries ?

No fly lists are not appropriate for real Americans.
I don't think its fair to call George Washington and Thomas Jefferson terrorists. They didn't send people to go kill innocents to inspire terror. They didn't kill crown loyalists unless they took up arms against them. They were fighting for the freedom of a nation against a tyrannical (in their opinion) government. You want an example or terrorists who fight for the freedom of their nation just look at the IRA who blow up buses or attack the police. There is a difference between a Terrorist and a Rebel.
 

littlexchelsea

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Now that terrorism is in the news again, I wanted to ask you guys what you thought of the "No Fly List". It seems the US has many lists to keep track of potential dangerous citizens (such as the sex offenders register), but this one seems like the most random and less solid of all, since it does not seem to be based on any proof of a crime or of any malconduct.

Surely US airport security is tight and crazy enough as it is!

(infographic from Grounded: Life on the No Fly List | American Civil Liberties Union
Wow, this really speaks to me. I myself have never been on the 'No Fly List', been racially profiled, etc. It must be a terrible experience to go through; being denied to travel because of your apperance.
 

orangesunset

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George Washington came for a bygone era when there was a firm line between combatants and non-combatants. That is why the Boston Tea party rocked the world. By definition it was an act of terrorism. A civilian ship carrying cargo was attacked, this cargo was destroyed. That is terrorism.

You want an example or terrorists who fight for the freedom of their nation just look at the IRA who blow up buses or attack the police. There is a difference between a Terrorist and a Rebel.
This where the distinctions between terrorist and rebel start to blur. The Nazis considered the French resistance terrorists and treated them accordingly. The French resistance targeted railways and trains, civilians would often get killed or injured.

Ron Paul was one of the few Americans who addressed the issue about American foreign policy. One can argue all day long about morality and idealism. Or maybe one can take a pragmatic approach and work on cost effective solutions.
 

tournique

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Really nice comic that shows the stupidity of the no-fly list. No problems have been fixed with no fly lists and it is stupid that USA has such bad implementations which make up for their bad international name.
 
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