PAF CAS, Turkish CGS discuss professional matters

[TomCat]

Air Chief, Turkish Commander discuss professional matters

November 19, 2019

Chief of General Staff of Turkish Armed Forces General Yasar Guler called on Air Chief Mujahid Anwar Khan in Islamabad on Tuesday and discussed matters of professional and mutual interest.

General Yasar Guler appreciated the sound professionalism of PAF personnel. He also expressed his desire to learn from each other experiences.

The Air Chief said both the countries enjoy cordial and brotherly relations and reiterated his resolve to further enhance the existing cooperation between the two countries.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What can the matters be ?
Some possibilities :-
- Cooperation in Air launched weapons
- Merger between AZM/TFX ?
- Dedicated LIFT platforms (Since both countries have shown interest in acquiring advanced trainers apart from basic trainers)
- Avionics Cooperation and Joint programs ?
- F-16 ozgur upgrades ?
- Air defence systems ?

 

[TomCat]

@AliYusuf @HRK @Signalian @Mastankhan @Khafee @Signalian @BATMAN @maxpane

 

[TomCat]

The last and most stupid idea i can think of is getting Turkey onboard the thunder program with a Major program upgrade post Block 3 to convert it to MRCA so that both countries can have 'em ? Turkey doesn't need thunder tho. Bringing in Turkey would loosen Thunder's potential sales to Middle East. China would also have issues..

 

[Mastankhan]

The last and most stupid idea i can think of is getting Turkey onboard the thunder program with a Major program upgrade post Block 3 to convert it to MRCA so that both countries can have 'em ? Turkey doesn't need thunder tho. Bringing in Turkey would loosen Thunder's potential sales to Middle East. China would also have issues..

the US has too much grip on mid east. So dont expect any sale.

i would love to have turkey buy this aircraft, because turkey develops the electronics and that would be a massive boost.

 

[AliYusuf]

Air Chief, Turkish Commander discuss professional matters

November 19, 2019

Chief of General Staff of Turkish Armed Forces General Yasar Guler called on Air Chief Mujahid Anwar Khan in Islamabad on Tuesday and discussed matters of professional and mutual interest.

General Yasar Guler appreciated the sound professionalism of PAF personnel. He also expressed his desire to learn from each other experiences.

The Air Chief said both the countries enjoy cordial and brotherly relations and reiterated his resolve to further enhance the existing cooperation between the two countries.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What can the matters be ?
Some possibilities :-
- Cooperation in Air launched weapons
- Merger between AZM/TFX ?
- Dedicated LIFT platforms (Since both countries have shown interest in acquiring advanced trainers apart from basic trainers)
- Avionics Cooperation and Joint programs ?
- F-16 ozgur upgrades ?
- Air defence systems ?

I would be very interested to know about the final outcome of the Ozgur Viper program, once the Turkish GaN based AESA becomes operational.

With a home grown mission computer, alternate FBW flight control systems etc etc it would truly be a sanctions free Viper.

Our existing fleet of Vipers could thus be modified as per our requirements and cut the dependency on the US, including mastering engine overhauls to add more life to it (like we have done on the Mirages).

 

[TomCat]

I would be very interested to know about the final outcome of the Ozgur Viper program, once the Turkish GaN based AESA becomes operational.

With a home grown mission computer, alternate FBW flight control systems etc etc it would truly be a sanction less Viper.

Our existing fleet of Vipers could thus be modified as per our requirements and cut the dependency on the US, including mastering engine overhauls to add more life to it (like we have done on on the Mirages).

You do know, such a move means having a death wish (given that you already don’t have worst relations with US then it’s ok). However, if we are to get Block 70s, we will have to remain sweet as honey for sometime. Not going raging mad like Turkey went, stupidly with no political calculations.
If USA-Turkey relations get better (which I don’t see happening soon), it would be a win-win for us as well as if USA denies us V upgrade for existing fleet, they might allow us ozgur but that would be a loss of business for USA.

 

[TomCat]

the US has too much grip on mid east. So dont expect any sale.

i would love to have turkey buy this aircraft, because turkey develops the electronics and that would be a massive boost.

Spot on... What benefits we can get from Turkey is definitely in terms of avionics. However, my question, Does Turkey even need Thunders? They do have around 50 F-4s. Getting a custom made Block 3 with their own sourced avionics and possibly engine might be a viable option for them. Also the universal support of thunder in terms of weaponry makes them suitable for Turkish AF

 

[AliYusuf]

You do know, such a move means having a death wish (given that you already don’t have worst relations with US then it’s ok). However, if we are to get Block 70s, we will have to remain sweet as honey for sometime. Not going raging mad like Turkey went, stupidly with no political calculations.
If USA-Turkey relations get better (which I don’t see happening soon), it would be a win-win for us as well as if USA denies us V upgrade for existing fleet, they might allow us ozgur but that would be a loss of business for USA.

The success of the Ozgur Viper should increase the chances of our getting the Block-70 upgrades. Why? Becuase the US would then be aware that if they try to block the deal at some point, we would already have an alternative and a sustaining option for our viper fleet.

So the success of the Ozgur Viper program is very important in my book.

Also the relationship with the US is a progressively diminishing returns game vis-a-vis military hardware. Because slowly and steadily they are going to make it very difficult for us to acquire their weapons systems. Their policies are headed that way. We might get a few deals in between based on their need for our cooperation over something. But nothing log term can be expected with them. Turkey is a long term friend.

 

[TomCat]

The success of the Ozgur Viper should increase the chances of our getting the Block-70 upgrades. Why? Becuase the US would then be aware that if they try to block the deal at some point, we would already have an alternative and a sustaining option for our viper fleet.

So the success of the Ozgur Viper program is very important in my book.

Also the relationship with the US is a progressively diminishing returns game vis-a-vis military hardware. Because slowly and steadily they are going to make it very difficult for us to acquire their weapons systems. Their policies are headed that way. We might get a few deals in between based on their need for our cooperation over something. But nothing log term can be expected with them. Turkey is a long term friend.

If we play with F-16 fleet, they will blackmail us with multiple sanction dramas

 

[AliYusuf]

If we play with F-16 fleet, they will blackmail us with multiple sanction dramas

Well that is something that is more of a psychological leverage than anything else. We already have close to 200 Nuclear Warheads with many dozens of fully operational missiles of varying ranges which exceed the tactical range of the viper. There is no sanction yet. There won't be in the future. I am not saying that the Ozgur track should be our first option, but it's success will be a very real and viable bargaining chip for the Block-70s and the V upgrade.
Just my two cents on the issue.

 

[HRK]

The last and most stupid idea i can think of is getting Turkey onboard the thunder program with a Major program upgrade post Block 3 to convert it to MRCA so that both countries can have 'em ? Turkey doesn't need thunder tho. Bringing in Turkey would loosen Thunder's potential sales to Middle East. China would also have issues..

Turkey is already in design phase of advance trainer-cum-light attack jet with engine thrust +19,000 lb which is more or less equivalent to RD-93 engine of JF-17 .... so they don't have any need for our JF-17 ....

 

[TomCat]

Well that is something that is more of a psychological leverage than anything else. We already have close to 200 Nuclear Warheads with many dozens of fully operational missiles of varying ranges which exceed the tactical range of the viper. There is no sanction yet. There won't be in the future. I am not saying that the Ozgur track should be our first option, but it's success will be a very real and viable bargaining chip for the Block-70s and the V upgrade.
Just my two cents on the issue.

Ok, nicely summer up, unless F-21 happens which is certainly not happening, ozgur should be a second option

 

[TomCat]

Turkey is already in design phase of advance trainer-cum-light attack jet with engine thrust +19,000 lb which is more or less equivalent to RD-93 engine of JF-17 .... so they don't have any need for our JF-17 ....

Hurkus-C?

 

[HRK]

Hurkus-C?

HÜRJET these are old specification from official site

 

[TomCat]

HÜRJET these are old specification from official site

It lacks A2A mode buddy. Plus, it’s more of a TRAINER than a fighter, more like a next-gen trainer. Turkey can definitely benefit from AESA Block 3