Pakistan approaches Riyadh for renewal of $3.2b oil facility | Page 29 | World Defense

Pakistan approaches Riyadh for renewal of $3.2b oil facility

TsAr

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UK think tank credits Gen Bajwa for 'calming hype' surround Pak-Saudi relations


The Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), the world's oldest defence think tank, has credited Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa for calming the relationship between Saudi–Pakistan in recent days.

Analysts said that the army chief’s visit to Saudi Arabia last week, contrary to media hype, was to reassure the Saudis and continue the defence relationship.

Gen Bajwa and Crown Prince Muhammad Bin Suleman (MBS) have made the relationship more realistic where both countries help each other beyond slogans and history.

The analysis said: “General Bajwa has steered the institutional relationship away from personalities and one-man shows. Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman has done much the same. This has led to the first-ever private-led investment by a Saudi entity in Pakistan. Seen from this perspective, the $1-billion debt payback demand is a paltry sum, compared to the almost $20-billion private investment into Pakistan.”

The analysis said that Gen Bajwa has worked to develop the ties into a broader corporate relationship on a more equitable basis, rather than one of aid and dependence.

“[Gen] Bajwa had earlier also fixed Pakistan’s relationship with the UAE which had stalled since Pakistan refused to assist the UAE in military operations in Yemen. Prior to the army chief’s visit to the UAE, there had been a freeze in all UAE–Pakistan diplomatic activity," it noted.

Gen Bajwa visited Riyadh immediately after the media uproar and assured the Saudis that there is no danger of any Pakistani participation in the anti-Saudi alliance.

The Saudis, to their credit, have also explained to Pakistan that whilst Riyadh supports Pakistan’s Kashmir stance, India is an important economic partner and the Saudis are ready to mediate rather than pressure India.”

”Pakistan also must understand that, just as Kashmir is their jugular vein, Yemen is the Saudi weak spot. Both countries need a realistic perspective on their priorities and security threats. This cannot be a one-way street, especially since Egypt has now arguably replaced Pakistan as Saudi Arabia’s main guarantor for internal and regional security,” it said.

”Saudi analyst Dr Mohammad Al Sulami who is close to the Royal Court and has visited Pakistan several times, believed Pakistan politicians to hide their own failures over Kashmir were looking for a foreign scapegoat however Saudi stood behind Pakistan. Mohammad bin Salman and Bajwa have brought realism into the relationship, one which goes beyond just slogans of brotherhood and history. And that will be a source of strength for the future of both countries.”

The RUSI analysis stressed that Pakistan’s relation with Saudi Arabia is primarily handled directly by the Pakistan Army and the Saudi King and Crown Prince. “There have been some question marks about this alliance as a result of various regional changes, such as the Qatari, Malaysian and Turkish embrace of Pakistan and the anti-Saudi stance which such realignments may imply. However, despite the hype, there can be no rupture in this alliance.”

The analysis said that the growing Turkish and Malaysian influence on Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan has not gone unnoticed in Riyadh.

”Imran Khan has repeatedly said that his political heroes are Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan and Malaysia’s former Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad,” it said.

Imran Khan sees Pakistan as a democratic Islamic country and wants to replicate the economic success that underpinned Turkey and Malaysia’s rise, the report said, adding that at last year’s UN General Assembly summit, the three leaders decided to launch a joint Islamic platform to counter Islamophobia.

”This then resulted in a historic summit in Kuala Lumpur which was the first major Islamic conference outside the realms of the Saudi-based OIC,” the report said.

The presence of the Iranian president and the Emir of Qatar at that summit ”further annoyed the Saudis who perceived the Malaysia summit more as a threat to their leadership than a genuine Islamic forum”.

“The Saudis do not object to Pakistan’s bilateral ties with Turkey or Malaysia, however, do not want Pakistan to be part of Erdogan’s regional meddling in Arab affairs. Pakistan did not appreciate how acutely sensitive Riyadh may be to fears of Turkish and Qatari animosity towards Riyadh,” it added.
 

BATMAN

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Saudis must not fall for the trap... this 10 billion would only serve funding anti Arab Fighters and propaganda.
They must demand actions on ground for full blockade of hawala hundi business from Pakistani regime, before investing any penny.
Should also demand revival of 500 million $ Tuwarqi steel and investigations in to the murder of Saudi Ambassador.
 
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Mzafar

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Saudis must not fall for the trap... this 10 billion would only serve funding anti Arab Fighters and propaganda.
They must demand actions on ground for full blockade of hawala hundi business from Pakistani regime, before investing any penny.
Should also demand revival of 500 million $ Tuwarqi steel and investigations in to the murder of Saudi Ambassador.
This is an investment in Pakistan. What trap are you referring to.
Also how does the murdered Ambassador issue comes into play here.
 

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This is an investment in Pakistan. What trap are you referring to.
Also how does the murdered Ambassador issue comes into play here.
As we all know, Investments are different in nature, based on their nature in profit, which may not be limited to cash but starts a chain of prosperity and development, and has been the case of investments in Pakistan.

Refinery construction, will give jobs to Pakistanis, give boost to local companies, in a country full of skilled /un-skilled man power, but without jobs, such conditions are ripe for networks operated in Pakistan by enemies of Pakistan.

Discussing Saudi Arabia, they have had history of investments in Pakistan, most of those investments were in social development sector, some of us don't know or either don't want to hear about those investments, but the anti Saudi propaganda which is basically lies, is lead by the media, example propaganda: MBS phoned Imran Khan to not construct a block of 3 anti Saudi states including Iran. If true, was suppose to be a leak of top level.
Suddenly Pakistani media, started educating nation how Saudi Arabia was founded etc.... what possibly could be the objective here, it may not hurt Saudi Arabia but clearly reflects the priorities and emotions of state of Pakistan, towards Saudi Arabia.

Hence my statement, i.e. where's the sense in investing $10 billion in a country, who has assumed the role of anti Saudi activities, not limited to spreading lies, keeping diplomatic terms limited to keeping useless embassy in Riyadh, while ministers make statements undermining Saudi sovereignty, collaborating with states who are enemies of Saudi Arabia, threatening and even killing Saudi citizens in Pakistan etc.... but now since Saudi Arabia is investing, what's wrong in demanding report of investigation from Saudi Ambassador's killing... which actually lead to turbulence in historic Saudi investments. It's anyway in national interest of Pakistan to expose target killing networks and their links with ministers in state of Pakistan and foreign states.

You must understand, state level investments are not purely for profit reasons but they may have strategic dimension to it, but if the receiving state is strategically aligned with enemies of Saudi Arabia, investing $10 billion is pure insanity....
We all know present day Pakistan is owned by people, who put Pakistan's survival on risk by keeping borders with COVID ridden Iran open for months. I as a Pakistani is not willing to bet a penny on such ruling mafia, who are working day and night to undermine interests of Pakistan.
 
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Mzafar

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I have to disagree to the above as I see this as an over simplistic view of the strategic relationship, of which military and economics are just a few components.
Saudi, or for that matter any other country, will never back another country without considering the risks and benefits.
If they are investing in Pakistan then it means it's profitable for them. How a nation calculated it's profits may differ. Maybe for Saudi it's about money, influence, security guarantee or something else. But one thing is for sure that they see a benefit in it. The moment Pakistan ceases to be beneficial to them, all this money and support will stop.
So if it's ongoing then the mutual benefits are there. If they need any explanation they will ask / get it before embarking on any endeavor like this.
A universal truth always stands, there is no free lunch.
 

BATMAN

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I have to disagree to the above as I see this as an over simplistic view of the strategic relationship, of which military and economics are just a few components.
Saudi, or for that matter any other country, will never back another country without considering the risks and benefits.
If they are investing in Pakistan then it means it's profitable for them. How a nation calculated it's profits may differ. Maybe for Saudi it's about money, influence, security guarantee or something else. But one thing is for sure that they see a benefit in it. The moment Pakistan ceases to be beneficial to them, all this money and support will stop.
So if it's ongoing then the mutual benefits are there. If they need any explanation they will ask / get it before embarking on any endeavor like this.
A universal truth always stands, there is no free lunch.
I do not trust regime's reach out maneuver to Saudis as a sincerer one based on factual history, what boils up in future is different story.
I usually avoid giving May be and Maybe not type of opinions, which are waste of time. i gave you what you asked for, based on facts.

You however touched some of your opinions.... may i ask, what security Pakistan can offer to Saudi Arabia, while they are daily intercepting Iranian missiles? That too, considering Pakistan is not willing to offer condolences on Saudi loss, and condemnation to the apparatus behind it, which again is Iran and it's missiles and suicide drones made up of ''stolen'' technology from Pakistan.

Most recently, Pakistan has threatened Saudi Arabia publicly to form an alliance with Iran, which is as much hilarious as much is absurd, but it surely does not shows Pakistan in any posture to help Saudi in security matters, at least as long Pakistan's leadership is reporting to Supreme Leader.

It's also a fact that it was Imran Khan, who went to Saudi Arabia begging aid, after IMF started to play cards in rounds with Finance ministry.
It's also a fact that Saudis facilitated and organized meeting of Imran Khan with Trump.
It's also a fact, that Imran Khan demanded release of prisoners in KSA, on demand of Iranian puppies around him.

I can keep on mentioning facts, non of which is an opinion and neither is may be maybe not.

Most important to notice for you, Pakistani propagandists always find Saudi fault, when they invest and also when they don't invest.

As far investigation to murder of Saudi Ambassador is concerned, every patriot Pakistani should ask for it, simply because we like to see the faces of covert enemies of Pakistan.
 
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Counter-Errorist

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Saudi, or for that matter any other country, will never back another country without considering the risks and benefits.
Then you don't understand Pakistan-KSA relationship and history. Up until MBS took over, KSA has always helped Pakistan without accounting for profit. Kings Faisal and Salman have always had a soft spot for Pakistan. Weigh in everything KSA has done for us. Our initial F-16s we are so proud of and is prime truck art, was bought by Saudis - we have been buying subsidized oil from them since forever, they've bailed out us of tricky economic situations countless times.

Then consider what we have truly for them in return, you'll find it to be negligible.
 

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Then you don't understand Pakistan-KSA relationship and history. Up until MBS took over, KSA has always helped Pakistan without accounting for profit. Kings Faisal and Salman have always had a soft spot for Pakistan. Weigh in everything KSA has done for us. Our initial F-16s we are so proud of and is prime truck art, was bought by Saudis - we have been buying subsidized oil from them since forever, they've bailed out us of tricky economic situations countless times.

Then consider what we have truly for them in return, you'll find it to be negligible.
I do not trust regime's reach out maneuver to Saudis as a sincerer one based on factual history, what boils up in future is different story.
I usually avoid giving May be and Maybe not type of opinions, which are waste of time. i gave you what you asked for, based on facts.

You however touched some of your opinions.... may i ask, what security Pakistan can offer to Saudi Arabia, while they are daily intercepting Iranian missiles? That too, considering Pakistan is not willing to offer condolences on Saudi loss, and condemnation to the apparatus behind it, which again is Iran and it's missiles and suicide drones made up of ''stolen'' technology from Pakistan.

Most recently, Pakistan has threatened Saudi Arabia publicly to form an alliance with Iran, which is as much hilarious as much is absurd, but it surely does not shows Pakistan in any posture to help Saudi in security matters, at least as long Pakistan's leadership is reporting to Supreme Leader.

It's also a fact that it was Imran Khan, who went to Saudi Arabia begging aid, after IMF started to play cards in rounds with Finance ministry.
It's also a fact that Saudis facilitated and organized meeting of Imran Khan with Trump.
It's also a fact, that Imran Khan demanded release of prisoners in KSA, on demand of Iranian puppies around him.

I can keep on mentioning facts, non of which is an opinion and neither is may be maybe not.

Most important to notice for you, Pakistani propagandists always find Saudi fault, when they invest and also when they don't invest.

As far investigation to murder of Saudi Ambassador is concerned, every patriot Pakistani should ask for it, simply because we like to see the faces of covert enemies of Pakistan.
I think both of you are neglecting the fact that this particular conversation is only about 10B USD investment in Pakistan.
It was mentioned that Saudi should avoid walking into a trap and my point was that every country will look out for Self interest.

It has been mentioned and discussed on this very forum that Saudi have ceased the finances for recent Pakistan military acquisitions. Now that points to the fact that Saudi are not getting what they expected from Pakistan.
Frankly no one can blame them, their money, their call.
It can be a temporary pause or a more serious breakdown, time will tell.
Considering the history, I would say its former rather than latter.

The exact same applies to this 10B investment.
If Saudi are going ahead then it means they see a profit in it, otherwise this investment will also stop.

End of the day, no free lunch. Everyone has to earn it.
 

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I think both of you are neglecting the fact that this particular conversation is only about 10B USD investment in Pakistan.
It was mentioned that Saudi should avoid walking into a trap and my point was that every country will look out for Self interest.

It has been mentioned and discussed on this very forum that Saudi have ceased the finances for recent Pakistan military acquisitions. Now that points to the fact that Saudi are not getting what they expected from Pakistan.
Frankly no one can blame them, their money, their call.
It can be a temporary pause or a more serious breakdown, time will tell.
Considering the history, I would say its former rather than latter.

The exact same applies to this 10B investment.
If Saudi are going ahead then it means they see a profit in it, otherwise this investment will also stop.

End of the day, no free lunch. Everyone has to earn it.
What do you mean by Saudis are not getting what they expected?
If said expectation was not clearly defined to Imran Khan or Arif Alvi than Pakistan is not to be blamed for it, and i'm no fan of discussing hypothetical stuff, as pointed earlier.

However what we know from ground reality, the partnership effectively collapsed with Pakistan's threats to Saudi Arabia via social media.
Hope you are aware, how international press perceived this show down.

'Pause' remained, at least until Bajwa went to Riyadh, with whatever message. If you know please share.

As well please share, how Imran Khan or Zardari have helped Saudi Arabia more than they both received the aid?

It's a FACT that history of Pakistan is full of BEGGING to Saudi Arabia, but it was never mention type attitude from Saudi Arabia.

What Imran Khan is leading here is a deliberate agenda, and as stated before is not limited to the planted statement of SMQ.

Saudi investments are not protected in Pakistan from the Iranian mafia, who are shamelessly lying and making things up, in open violation of PEMRA regulations. Therefore, i see no sanity in Saudi decision of going forward, unless Pakistan show any bit of sincerity, investigations into murder of Saudi ambassador could be one such gesture.
 
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Mzafar

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What do you mean by Saudis are not getting what they expected?
If said expectation was not clearly defined to Imran Khan or Arif Alvi than Pakistan is not to be blamed for it, and i'm no fan of discussing hypothetical stuff, as pointed earlier.

However what we know from ground reality, the partnership effectively collapsed with Pakistan's threats to Saudi Arabia via social media.
Unless you are ignorant to the international press, how they perceived this show down.

Pause remained, at least until Bajwa went to Riyadh with whatever message. If you know please share.

As well please share, how Imran Khan or Zardari have helped Saudi Arabia more than they both received the aid?

All the history of Pakistan is full of BEGGING to Saudi Arabia, but it was never mention type attitude from Saudi Arabia.

What Imran Khan is leading here is a deliberate agenda, and as stated before is not limited to the planted statement of SMQ.

Saudi investments are not protected in Pakistan from the Iranian mafia, who are shamelessly lying and making things up, in open violation of PEMRA regulations.
My fried you are too emotionally invested in Pak-Saudi relationship issue.
I have seen enough seasons to know when a discussion is going towards an argument.
So lets agree to disagree.
Have a nice day
 

BATMAN

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My fried you are too emotionally invested in Pak-Saudi relationship issue.
I have seen enough seasons to know when a discussion is going towards an argument.
So lets agree to disagree.
Have a nice day
Un-like forums infested by Iranian loyalists, here no one have yet used abusive language. I challenge all the FIGHTER types to come here on neutral forums, if they like to have discussion with even parity.

Ask those millions of Pakistanis, who have earned their livelihood from Saudi from generations, how they were able to invest in their children's future, which is not possible in a country where to get a govt. job, ministry or have business licence or even smuggling permit, etc., loyalty with Iranian supreme leader is a must have.

I asked you to explain your claims with facts, which at best can be described as inside news, while my argument is built upon facts, which are publicly available.

You even failed to point at your stated possible Saudi interest, in going ahead with investment of $10 billion.

While my argument hints at clear signs of forth coming sabotage, as it happened in history, when Zardari ruled.

As well there are clear hints, that imran Khan and Zardari have common supreme leader, who is strategically aligned with India.

Saudis will loose $ 10 billion, but Pakistan will loose a cycle of progress and development, can be valued far above than $ 10 billion, but most of above Pakistan will loose it's image in front of Saudi public. That would be the true catastrophe for Pakistan but by than Imran Khan and mafia would be living easy life funded by their sponsors.

Even the planted statement of SMQ's is nothing but a blatant lie.
Enjoy:
 
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