Qatar and Saudi Arabia, an arms race or a competition of who can buy more

[Jaeger]

a thread so we can discuss the Qatar-Saudi issue

it seems to me, that both are in an arms race against each other, however at the same time it seems like they are trying to show who spend more on both economics and defence.
feel free to keep the discussion going, but please try to keep it peaceful is all I ask.

 

[Yıldırım]

a thread so we can discuss the Qatar-Saudi issue

it seems to me, that both are in an arms race against each other, however at the same time it seems like they are trying to show who spend more on both economics and defence.
feel free to keep the discussion going, but please try to keep it peaceful is all I ask.

both are more in a political, influence race more so then an arms race. if you look into it, Qatar is constantly trying to ink contracts with countries the Saudis have already contracts with and it's quite funny to a sense, because the Qataris rarely ink major deals that can surpass the Saudi deals, and

when they do it's still not by much. for example when Saudi Arabia signed an agreement with Pakistan to invest $20 Billion into Pakistan's economy, Qatar signed an agreement with Pakistan to invest $22 Billion in Pakistan's economy.

Same thing can be said with Azerbaijan, Saudi Arabia is planning to invest ~$370 Million into Azerbaijan's economy, with a good chunk going on oil industry and recently flights from Baku to 3 Saudi Cities just began. Qatar only encouraged ~25 businesses from Azerbaijan to setup shop down in Doha and Baku to Doha flights also began, so you can see who Azerbaijan loves conducting more business ties with.

get onto the defence sector
Saudi Arabia purchased new weapons since the relations soured:
-24 UH-60L
-48 CH-47F
-6 P-8s
-150 M1 Abrams
-180 M109A6 Paladin Self Propelled Howitzers
-4 Lockheed Martin Freedom class MMCS
-6,600 TOW-2B missiles
- 620 JSOW Air to Ground Missiles
-5 batteries S-400
-local production on Kornet-E
-Local production on AK-103
-local production on TOS-1A
-local production on FREMM Frigates
-local production on Gowind-2500 corvettes
and so on
compared to Qatar
weapons bought since relations soured
-1,500 BMC Amazon
-215 FNSS NMS
-50 BMC Kirpi
-10 T-129s
-24 Firtina II, option for 24 more
-6 Bayraktar TB2 UCAVs
-100 Altay MBTs
-17 ARES ships from Turkey
-24 Rafales
-30 Nexter Higuard
-4 Doha class corvettes, being built by Fincantieri Italy
-1 LHD, being built by Fincantieri Italy
-12 THAAD launchers
-36 F-15QA
-24 AH-64E, another 24 contracted for =48
-24 Typhoon Tranche 3s, being built by BAE

what's actually ironic though is the Saudi's helped remove bigger purchases, for example Qatar planned to buy 48 Typhoons, and Saudi Arabia told Britain to cancel the contract, so an agreement was reached where Britain would only sell a max of 24 Tranche 3 Typhoons to the Qataris and Saudi Arabia purchased 48 Tranche 3 Typhoons. orignially, the Qataris planned to buy 72 F-15QAs all at once, however some say the Saudis even convinced the US to only sell 36 to Qatar.
In the End it shows who has stronger ties, and who is more worried. The Qataris even paid Turkey to help setup a base on the outskirts of Doha and wanted us to send troops there to protect them from a "Saudi-Emirati Invasion".

 

[Zaslon]

well too a certain extent it is an arms race, as well as a competition of who has a larger amount of spending money.

Qatar, is using it's money to buy high tech weapons from basically a certain number of nations, mostly top notch Allies if you will, such as Turkey and the US, over a fear they might get invaded from the Saudis (paranoia), since Qatar lost relations with a number of countries, I heard their economy actually took quite a toll and is begging for others to come in and hopefully invest. However, the Turks are only helping the Qataris for one basic reason, Erdogan himself got protected by Qatari Special Ops Soldiers during the Coup, which caused a stronger bond between both Ankara-Doha, and Doha used this to their advantage which got a Turkish base in Qatar and the Qatari Emir himself has SAT Commandos protecting him all the time.

Saudi Arabia on the other hand, doesn't position itself to invade Qatar, since their dissolution in the political relations ended, Qatar's economy took a hit, and most of Saudi Arabia's weapon buying is that to counter Iran, not Qatar. Qatar is using these massive purchases on the Saudi side to justify massive buying spree of their own, as well as turn the people against the Saudis, Egyptians, Emiratis and so on.

 

[Scorpion]

Allow me to disagree here. Its true Qatar is on shopping spree however, I would not call it an arms race rather for political aims. Saudi Arabia on the other hand has a very big defense budget and it well known to everyone that Saudi Arabia buys arms on a regular basis before the Qatar/Saudi block boycott takes place. Qatar is very small in size, no geo depth which means Saudi Arabia can occupy it from within in a matter of an hour if it wants to. Not to mention being surrounded by the UAE and Bahrain. Qatar does not share borders with anyone except with Saudi Arabia and it does not qualify to be an opponent in an armed conflict.

With all the arms procurement, Qatar military bases are under the mercy of the Saudi land forces. Not even a fruit fly can take off let alone its fighter jets.

 

[Khafee]

both are more in a political, influence race more so then an arms race. if you look into it, Qatar is constantly trying to ink contracts with countries the Saudis have already contracts with and it's quite funny to a sense, because the Qataris rarely ink major deals that can surpass the Saudi deals, and

when they do it's still not by much. for example when Saudi Arabia signed an agreement with Pakistan to invest $20 Billion into Pakistan's economy, Qatar signed an agreement with Pakistan to invest $22 Billion in Pakistan's economy.

Same thing can be said with Azerbaijan, Saudi Arabia is planning to invest ~$370 Million into Azerbaijan's economy, with a good chunk going on oil industry and recently flights from Baku to 3 Saudi Cities just began. Qatar only encouraged ~25 businesses from Azerbaijan to setup shop down in Doha and Baku to Doha flights also began, so you can see who Azerbaijan loves conducting more business ties with.

get onto the defence sector
Saudi Arabia purchased new weapons since the relations soured:
-24 UH-60L
-48 CH-47F
-6 P-8s
-150 M1 Abrams
-180 M109A6 Paladin Self Propelled Howitzers
-4 Lockheed Martin Freedom class MMCS
-6,600 TOW-2B missiles
- 620 JSOW Air to Ground Missiles
-5 batteries S-400
-local production on Kornet-E
-Local production on AK-103
-local production on TOS-1A
-local production on FREMM Frigates
-local production on Gowind-2500 corvettes
and so on
compared to Qatar
weapons bought since relations soured
-1,500 BMC Amazon
-215 FNSS NMS
-50 BMC Kirpi
-10 T-129s
-24 Firtina II, option for 24 more
-6 Bayraktar TB2 UCAVs
-100 Altay MBTs
-17 ARES ships from Turkey
-24 Rafales
-30 Nexter Higuard
-4 Doha class corvettes, being built by Fincantieri Italy
-1 LHD, being built by Fincantieri Italy
-12 THAAD launchers
-36 F-15QA
-24 AH-64E, another 24 contracted for =48
-24 Typhoon Tranche 3s, being built by BAE

what's actually ironic though is the Saudi's helped remove bigger purchases, for example Qatar planned to buy 48 Typhoons, and Saudi Arabia told Britain to cancel the contract, so an agreement was reached where Britain would only sell a max of 24 Tranche 3 Typhoons to the Qataris and Saudi Arabia purchased 48 Tranche 3 Typhoons. orignially, the Qataris planned to buy 72 F-15QAs all at once, however some say the Saudis even convinced the US to only sell 36 to Qatar.
In the End it shows who has stronger ties, and who is more worried. The Qataris even paid Turkey to help setup a base on the outskirts of Doha and wanted us to send troops there to protect them from a "Saudi-Emirati Invasion".

Qatar was dangling the US$22bn carrot in front of the Pakistanis, in return for Nawaz Sharief. The Pakistanis said "NO"

 

[Khafee]

Allow me to disagree here. Its true Qatar is on shopping spree however, I would not call it an arms race rather for political aims. Saudi Arabia on the other hand has a very big defense budget and it well known to everyone that Saudi Arabia buys arms on a regular basis before the Qatar/Saudi block boycott takes place. Qatar is very small in size, no geo depth which means Saudi Arabia can occupy it from within in a matter of an hour if it wants to. Not to mention being surrounded by the UAE and Bahrain. Qatar does not share borders with anyone except with Saudi Arabia and it does not qualify to be an opponent in an armed conflict.

With all the arms procurement, Qatar military bases are under the mercy of the Saudi land forces. Not even a fruit fly can take off let alone its fighter jets.

Qatar does not have the manpower either to operate these cutting edge systems, these deals are nothing less than a bribe, to win political support.

 

[Jaeger]

Qatar does not have the manpower either to operate these cutting edge systems, these deals are nothing less than a bribe, to win political support.

I been hearing they are hiring former PAF pilots to fly their Rafales now. I'm actually pretty surprised with all the weapon purchasing, even though they can't operate everything they are buying. but as @Scorpion mentioned, political aims.

 

[Scorpion]

I been hearing they are hiring former PAF pilots to fly their Rafales now. I'm actually pretty surprised with all the weapon purchasing, even though they can't operate everything they are buying. but as @Scorpion mentioned, political aims.

Yes, Rafales are operated by former Pakistani pilots. Qatari pilots used to train in Saudi Arabia and the UAE but after the boycott not anymore. They are sending students to train in the US and the UK to operate the EF and the F-15 but it will take them ages to be fully capable.

 

[Persian Gulf]

Qatar, is using it's money to buy high tech weapons from basically a certain number of nations, mostly top notch Allies if you will, such as Turkey and the US, over a fear they might get invaded from the Saudis (paranoia), since Qatar lost relations with a number of countries, I heard their economy actually took quite a toll and is begging for others to come in and hopefully invest.

Firstly, I don't think it can be called an arms race because KSA's military budget is 11x the size of Qatar's.

Secondly, the plans of a Saudi invasion of Qatar are well reported and thus not merely Qatari "paranoia": Saudi Arabia Planned to Invade Qatar Last Summer. Rex Tillerson’s Efforts to Stop It May Have Cost Him His Job.

Lastly, it's not true that Qatar's economy "took quite a toll" (or is "begging" anyone). Qatar's economy continued to grow despite the KSA-led blockade against it: Qatar’s Economy Booming Under Embargo, GDP Growth Expected at 2.5-3% - Gov’t Financial Body ; Bloomberg - Are you a robot?.

 

[nasser_qa22]

both are more in a political, influence race more so then an arms race. if you look into it, Qatar is constantly trying to ink contracts with countries the Saudis have already contracts with and it's quite funny to a sense, because the Qataris rarely ink major deals that can surpass the Saudi deals, and

when they do it's still not by much. for example when Saudi Arabia signed an agreement with Pakistan to invest $20 Billion into Pakistan's economy, Qatar signed an agreement with Pakistan to invest $22 Billion in Pakistan's economy.

Same thing can be said with Azerbaijan, Saudi Arabia is planning to invest ~$370 Million into Azerbaijan's economy, with a good chunk going on oil industry and recently flights from Baku to 3 Saudi Cities just began. Qatar only encouraged ~25 businesses from Azerbaijan to setup shop down in Doha and Baku to Doha flights also began, so you can see who Azerbaijan loves conducting more business ties with.

get onto the defence sector
Saudi Arabia purchased new weapons since the relations soured:
-24 UH-60L
-48 CH-47F
-6 P-8s
-150 M1 Abrams
-180 M109A6 Paladin Self Propelled Howitzers
-4 Lockheed Martin Freedom class MMCS
-6,600 TOW-2B missiles
- 620 JSOW Air to Ground Missiles
-5 batteries S-400
-local production on Kornet-E
-Local production on AK-103
-local production on TOS-1A
-local production on FREMM Frigates
-local production on Gowind-2500 corvettes
and so on
compared to Qatar
weapons bought since relations soured
-1,500 BMC Amazon
-215 FNSS NMS
-50 BMC Kirpi
-10 T-129s
-24 Firtina II, option for 24 more
-6 Bayraktar TB2 UCAVs
-100 Altay MBTs
-17 ARES ships from Turkey
-24 Rafales
-30 Nexter Higuard
-4 Doha class corvettes, being built by Fincantieri Italy
-1 LHD, being built by Fincantieri Italy
-12 THAAD launchers
-36 F-15QA
-24 AH-64E, another 24 contracted for =48
-24 Typhoon Tranche 3s, being built by BAE

what's actually ironic though is the Saudi's helped remove bigger purchases, for example Qatar planned to buy 48 Typhoons, and Saudi Arabia told Britain to cancel the contract, so an agreement was reached where Britain would only sell a max of 24 Tranche 3 Typhoons to the Qataris and Saudi Arabia purchased 48 Tranche 3 Typhoons. orignially, the Qataris planned to buy 72 F-15QAs all at once, however some say the Saudis even convinced the US to only sell 36 to Qatar.
In the End it shows who has stronger ties, and who is more worried. The Qataris even paid Turkey to help setup a base on the outskirts of Doha and wanted us to send troops there to protect them from a "Saudi-Emirati Invasion".

you forgot the 400 ejder 250 gurkha
1500 qatari made nomad mrap 1500 storm light apc made by qatar 1500 thunder mrap qatari made mrap unknown number of lynx and

 

[BATMAN]

Qatar was dangling the US$22bn carrot in front of the Pakistanis, in return for Nawaz Sharief. The Pakistanis said "NO"

Hypocrite Imran Khan and his ministers would do anything to undermine Pak-Saudi relations, leading to evaporate Saudi investment interests.. this is the whole direction of every step they take and every word they state.

 

[Khafee]

Hypocrite Imran Khan and his ministers would do anything to undermine Pak-Saudi relations, leading to evaporate Saudi investment interests.. this is the whole direction of every step they take and every word they state.

You know the funny part is that Turkey is selling KSA the tech / ToT to build drones. Bahrain is buying Turkish naval systems, Qatar is negotiating with KSA to be let back into GCC, BUT clueless kids are howling against KSA.

 

[Zeeman]

Americans are removing Patriots and soldiers in a spat with Saudis :

Why the US removed Patriot missiles and troops from Saudi Arabia

The two allies have recently been at odds on oil prices, which has inflicted heavy damage on the American oil industry.

www.trtworld.com

 

[Khafee]

Americans are removing Patriots and soldiers in a spat with Saudis :

Why the US removed Patriot missiles and troops from Saudi Arabia

The two allies have recently been at odds on oil prices, which has inflicted heavy damage on the American oil industry.

www.trtworld.com

Not spat. It was a temp deployment. Thaad is coming. I think the Saudi AD teams have bee certified. @Scorpion ?

 

[Scorpion]

Not spat. It was a temp deployment. Thaad is coming. I think the Saudi AD teams have bee certified. @Scorpion ?

I am not sure how accurate this news but for sure not spat. Trump just phoned King Salam yesterday. The US can not pull the Patriot system without prior arrangement with Saudi Arabia. There is a rental contract going on. We have a shortage now and RSAD even rented out some Patriot from Greece. Unless the Patriot that were sent for maintenance came back that I do not know of. As far as the TAAD concern, I think one or more groups out of what have been sent yet to conclude but those sent first yes trained and certified already. The THAAD delivery was supposed to take place by the end of 2022 but I have heard from a friend first batch is coming by the end of this year or early next year. This news was first published by WSJ citing anonymous source and from there it spread out. I can not comment on the accuracy of the Patriot being pulled out but if it was i would been a bilateral agreement.