Saudi Arabia strikes a deal for THADD and S-400 at once.

[Scorpion]

I think we all have heard the news. Saudi Arabia has signed a deal with Russia for the S-400 air defense system and one day later the US congress approved the Saudi purchase of THAAD system.

This is will give Saudi Arabia an upper hand in the region.

Saudia Arabia have agreed a deal to purchase S400 missile defense systems from Russia on Thursday during the state visit of King Salman Bin Abdulaziz to Moscow.
The deal will allow the kingdom to acquire one of the most advanced missile defense platforms in the world.
The S-400 Triumf is an anti aircraft, anti ballistic missile and anti cruise missile defense system that has been in service with the Russian Army since 2007.
The system uses four missiles, a very-long-range 400 km missile, a long-range 250 km missile, a medium-range 120 km missile and a short-range 40 km missile.
The System gives Saudi Arabia a multi-layer defense ability against aerial threats.
The S-400 is utilized by The Russian, Belarussian and Chinese armies. Turkey and India are awaiting delivery.
Although the kingdom utilizes an American-European missile defense base depending heavily on Raytheon’s Patriot missile systems, the inclusion of the Russian system will not affect but enhance the system in place according to Riad Kahwaji, Chief Executive of the Institute of Near East and Gulf Military Analysis in Dubai.
“The S400 is an effective missile platform that can be effectively utilized as long as the communications network is in place,” he said. “As long as your command and control can talk to each other and see any emanating threats you are fine with this system in place,“ he added.
Saudi Arabia already has an established early warning system with radars, early warning aircraft and missile defense systems, Kahwaji added.

US approves $15 billion THAAD missile defense sale to Saudi Arabia

Pentagon says State Department has signed off on deal
The US State Department has approved the possible sale of a anti-missile defence system to Saudi Arabia at an estimated cost of $15 billion, the Pentagon has said as it labelled Iran a regional threat.
Saudi Arabia asked to purchase 44 Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) launchers and 360 missiles, as well as fire control stations and radars.
“This sale furthers US national security and foreign policy interests, and supports the long-term security of Saudi Arabia and the Gulf region in the face of Iranian and other regional threats,” the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation agency said in a statement.

• Read more

Russia and Saudi Arabia 'sign $3bn arms deal' on King Salman visit

Iran has one of the biggest ballistic missile programmes in the Middle East, viewing it as an essential precautionary defence against the United States and other adversaries, primarily Gulf Arab states and Israel. THAAD missile systems are deployed to defend against ballistic missile attacks.
Saudi-owned al Arabiya television reported on Thursday that the kingdom had agreed to buy Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile systems, an announcement that came as Saudi King Salman made during his visit to Russia, the first by a Saudi monarch.
US military sales to Saudi Arabia have come under increased scrutiny over a Saudi-led coalition's war in Yemen.
Riyadh and its allies have been bombing the Iran-aligned Houthis in Yemen since the Houthis seized much of the countr's north in 2015. Riyadh says the coalition is fighting terrorists and supporting Yemen's legitimate government.

 

[Khafee]

SAUDI ARABIA’S S-400 TALKS PROGRESS, BUT QUESTIONS REMAIN
Feb 11, 2018
by Bilal Khan

S-400 Triumf launchers. Photo source: Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation

In an interview with Kommersant, Russia’s Presidential Aide for Military-Technical Cooperation (MTC) said that negotiations with Saudi Arabia for the sale of Almaz-Antey S-400 air defence systems are progressing, but Riyadh’s near-term outlook for transfer-of-technology (ToT) has complicated the matter.

“With Saudi Arabia, negotiations were difficult, but the documents were signed, their parameters are known. I can not say that everything is smooth in our country … [Saudi Arabia] insists on a sudden breakthrough, implying both supplies and technology transfer,” said Presidential Aide Vladimir Kozhin.

Kozhin acknowledged that in Riyadh’s case, Moscow was willing to extend ToT for the S-400 (though it is unclear what this could entail), but Moscow prefers moving gradually, to reduce risk and complications.

“First, the supply of finished weapons, mastering and understanding it, familiarizing our specialists with the capabilities of the opposite side. This is a complex chain, so we tell the partners that we should not hurry,” said Kozhin.

Saudi Arabia is reportedly aiming to localize the sustainment/support of the S-400 through Saudi Arabia Military Industries (SAMI), a state-owned industry established in May 2017 with the aim of spearheading the country’s defence industry growth as part of Riyadh’s Vision 2030.

Under Vision 2030, Saudi Arabia aims to localize 50% of its defence procurement. Thus far, the contracts ostensibly supporting this goal involve co-production and commercial offsets. However, Saudi Arabia has also begun partnerships, namely with Ukraine through the latter’s An-132D transport aircraft platform.

Negotiations between Saudi Arabia and Russia for the S-400 began in October following a memorandum-of-understanding (MoU) that could see the sale – with local manufacturing – of TOS-1A multiple rocket launch systems, AGS-30 automatic grenade launcher and Kornet-EM anti-tank guided-missiles.

Kozhin confirmed that negotiations regarding ToT of Russian small-arms for manufacturing in Saudi Arabia are also ongoing. Like the S-400, Kozhin hopes that these contracts will be inked in the “very near future.”

https://quwa.org/2018/02/11/saudi-a...il&utm_term=0_290f015d1a-cb3aa33e2e-206475549

 

[Timsah]

The Saudi airspace will be very covered now due to the acquirement of the S-400. smart move for your guys air defense. but I have question how many S-400s will be bought 32 launchers (4 battalions) or more?

 

[Scorpion]

The Saudi airspace will be very covered now due to the acquirement of the S-400. smart move for your guys air defense. but I have question how many S-400s will be bought 32 launchers (4 battalions) or more?

This has yet to be disclosed but Im guessing its going to be around ~40 but definitely less than 48. We are not yet certain because the deal has some Tot conditions and Russians might not agree to all of them.

 

[Timsah]

This has yet to be disclosed but Im guessing its going to be around ~40 but definitely less than 48. We are not yet certain because the deal has some Tot conditions and Russians might not agree to all of them.

In my opinion you guys should of bought some S-300s before moving onto S-400 so you guys could grow stronger cooperation with Russia, either way I hope it happens we need a stronger Saudi Arabia

 

[Scorpion]

In my opinion you guys should of bought some S-300s before moving onto S-400 so you guys could grow stronger cooperation with Russia, either way I hope it happens we need a stronger Saudi Arabia

Saudi Arabia marinates a good relation with Russia but after the Syrian crisis things have slightly changed. I think it was a political deal not a military one considering Saudi Arabia is part of the western school when it comes to arms. Its going to be difficult to synchronize the S-400 with the other system in the Saudi inventory mainly the Patriot and the airforce platforms. As for the s-300 Iran now has them so the Saudis wants to have an edge over kind of approach.

 

[Timsah]

Saudi Arabia marinates a good relation with Russia but after the Syrian crisis things have slightly changed. I think it was a political deal not a military one considering Saudi Arabia is part of the western school when it comes to arms. Its going to be difficult to synchronize the S-400 with the other system in the Saudi inventory mainly the Patriot and the airforce platforms. As for the s-300 Iran now has them so the Saudis wants to have an edge over kind of approach.

The Saudi arms deal with Russia was a political move to keep Russia from supplying Iran more advanced weaponry. but the Iranians have PMU2 variant of the S-300 which is a step below S-400.

 

[Scorpion]

The Saudi arms deal with Russia was a political move to keep Russia from supplying Iran more advanced weaponry. but the Iranians have PMU2 variant of the S-300 which is a step below S-400.

In a real confrontation with Iran the S-300 won't really change the game because it is not war and conquer anymore. DEAD/SEAD would be easy for the Saudi and its allies unlike Iran with its current airforce. Iran relies heavily on surface to surface missiles and if you don't have the means to protect the S-300 then you are doomed. All of the missiles Iran has now are unguided and most of them are liquid fuel. With the combination of THAAD and PAC-3 Iran missles won't really have a chance to penetrate the Saudi Airforce thou few might escape. They only thing Saudi Arabia needs for now is the ADM-160 missile and with its AWACS most surface to air defence system of Iran would be targeted.

 

[Timsah]

In a real confrontation with Iran the S-300 won't really change the game because it is not war and conquer anymore. DEAD/SEAD would be easy for the Saudi and its allies unlike Iran with its current airforce. Iran relies heavily on surface to surface missiles and if you don't have the means to protect the S-300 then you are doomed. All of the missiles Iran has now are unguided and most of them are liquid fuel. With the combination of THAAD and PAC-3 Iran missles won't really have a chance to penetrate the Saudi Airforce thou few might escape. They only thing Saudi Arabia needs for now is the ADM-160 missile and with its AWACS most surface to air defence system of Iran would be targeted.

I agree, I am not much updated with Iran. The Saudi DEAD missions will prove successful considering their main SAM is MIM-23 HAWK. though I heard the Iranian air force is looking at buying SU-27SM3s, SU-30SMEs and SU-35s if so that will boost their capability and be a better fight against the RSAF's F-15SA

 

[Scorpion]

I agree, I am not much updated with Iran. The Saudi DEAD missions will prove successful considering their main SAM is MIM-23 HAWK. though I heard the Iranian air force is looking at buying SU-27SM3s, SU-30SMEs and SU-35s if so that will boost their capability and be a better fight against the RSAF's F-15SA

That needs at least two decades of training and setting-up the foundation to accumulate such a large number of newly introduced tech. Iran won't be able to swallow that in a short period of time. Importantly to note that Saudi Arabia will also keep on enhancing its capability and we might see the F-35 in service you never know, more f-15sa, more typhoon, Tornado will be phased out by 2025 and we are not sure what is going to be a replacement for it. The after math is is our favour but there should not be war to begin with. Iran has nothing to lose but we do.

 

[Timsah]

I heard KSA wanted Rafales for replacement or was Rafales just to supplement?

 

[Lieutenant]

I heard KSA wanted Rafales for replacement or was Rafales just to supplement?

I personally believe Saudi Arabia would go for EF. @Scorpion

 

[Khafee]

I personally believe Saudi Arabia would go for EF. @Scorpion

Current EF's will be upgraded to Tranche3b specs as well.

 

[Khafee]

I agree, I am not much updated with Iran. The Saudi DEAD missions will prove successful considering their main SAM is MIM-23 HAWK. though I heard the Iranian air force is looking at buying SU-27SM3s, SU-30SMEs and SU-35s if so that will boost their capability and be a better fight against the RSAF's F-15SA

MIM-23A Hawk of the '70s era, that have not been upgraded like other users in the region
http://www.janes.com/article/68383/emirati-hawks-to-soldier-on

In the mean time, Iran has developed (or propoganda) Sayyad 2, details below:

***********************************************************************************************************************

Iran rolls out another medium-range SAM
Jeremy Binnie, London - Jane's Defence Weekly
12 November 2013

Iran's Sayyad-2 is based on the RIM-66 (SM-1) naval SAM and launched from Patriot-style canisters. Source: Iran MoD

Iran has continued to increase the confusion surrounding its air defence programmes by announcing that another medium-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) called the Sayyad-2 has gone into production.

The Sayyad-2 was first mentioned in April 2011, when the Iranian media reported that it had been tested and indicated it was an upgrade of the Sayyad (or Sayad, meaning hunter in Persian), which is the Iranian version of the HQ-2 (the Chinese version of the Russian S-75).

In August 2013 Brigadier General Farzad Esmaili, the commander of the Iranian air defence force, announced that Sayyad-2 missiles had been used with Iran's S-200 system.

While this suggested the Sayyad-2 was a new long-range SAM, Gen Esmaili indicated that it was an additional, rather than replacement missile. "We could enhance [the S-200's] capabilities to cover mid-altitude threats by changing the structure and protocol of the S-200 system and using Sayyad-2 missiles," he told journalists in October.

When the Sayyad-2 was unveiled for the first time in a 9 November ceremony, it became clear that it uses the airframe of the RIM-66 (SM-1) naval SAM that Iran acquired from the United States in the 1970s.

Iran claims it is already producing its own version of the SM-1 called the Mehrab. The Iranian navy announced on 1 January 2012 that the missile had been test fired for the first time from the fast attack craft Gorz .

Senior naval officers have said the Mehrab has a passive radar homing capability that allows it to engage aircraft that attempt to use electronic countermeasures to jam its active radar homing system.

Unlike the naval version, the Sayyad-2 is fired from individual canisters that are similar to those used by the MIM-104 Patriot air defence system. A truck-mounted launcher with four canisters was displayed during the ceremony.

Few details of the Sayyad-2's guidance system and range were released, although Defence Minister Hossein Dehghan described it as a high-altitude, medium-range SAM and said it would be used with the Talash system.

"The Talash defence system was designed and built to detect and intercept targets for the Sayyad-2 missile," he was quoted as saying.

"Now that it has had successful tests, God willing, its production line will be launched in the near future."

Iranian television also broadcast footage of a Sayyad-2 being fired from a launcher and apparently successfully intercepting a target.

The footage did not clearly show the associated radars, although a height finder may have been glimpsed in the footage, suggesting the missile was being used in conjunction with an old Russian or Chinese system rather than with a modern three-dimensional radar.
The original SM-1 has a range 40 km, although the Sayyad-2 could potentially have a longer range if it had a mid-course guidance system that steers it to its target more efficiently than its forebear.

This would ostensibly make the Talash/Sayyad-2 a rival to the Ra'ad, which was displayed for the first time during a military parade on 21 September 2012 and looks similar to the Russian Buk medium-range air defence systems, which Iran is not known to have acquired. It was announced at the time that Ra'ad has a range of 50 km.

Iran has also unveiled what it claims is an indigenously produced version of the MIM-23 HAWK system known as the Mersad, which is claimed to have a range of 40 km. A vehicle-mounted version of the system known as the Ghader was unveiled in 2012.

The Iranian MoD released this composite photograph showing a Sayyad-2 launcher with four canisters launching a missile. (Iran MoD)

This photograph shows the Sayyad-2 launcher with two canisters that featured in the Iranian television footage of the launching of a missile. This launcher appears to be a prototype as it differs significantly from the system displayed on 9 November, most notably the canisters are shorter. (Iran MoD)

A still of footage shown by Iranian television shows one of the computer screens from the system used to launch Sayyad-2 missiles. (IRIB)

http://www.janes.com/article/29817/iran-rolls-out-another-medium-range-sam

 

[Khafee]

In my opinion you guys should of bought some S-300s before moving onto S-400 so you guys could grow stronger cooperation with Russia, either way I hope it happens we need a stronger Saudi Arabia

Well if it is cooperation, that is desired, than progressing from S300 to S400 makes little, if any sense. There are other platforms that could be bought ,or JV'ed that would achieve the same result.