Small Islamic summit, not a summit without the Islamic leader. | Page 4 | World Defense

Small Islamic summit, not a summit without the Islamic leader.

Scorpion

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Bro I have already mentioned to you that the chinese media reported it first. Everyone else who reported it was simply quoting what the Chinese media said. If you want to blame anyone for criticising saudi for this then you need to blame the Chinese for starting it. This is not the fault of turks. The turks didn't force chinese media to report it.
MBS has not commented on the issue concerning the Uighur period. Anti-Saudi media led by Erdogan and MB started this, just like how Erdogan said yesterday Saudi Arabia pressured Pakistan to withdraw form the summit or else it would take economic measures! You can tell the difference between the article published by the Xinhua and the rest of the links. Typical anti-Saudi media especially those posted by UK media which are controlled by anti-Saudi elements to turn Muslims against Saudi Arabia. You fell for it, I did not.

Secondly, plenty of saudis have joined groups like ISIS or al-qaeda. Shall we put you and your family into a camp because of that too? That would be wrong right? So why should 100,000s of uighurs suffer for the actions of a few? You know bro, you try to use this "uighur joined ISIS" arguments to defend China but legitimately every oppressor of Muslims says the same thing. India says kashmiris produce terrorists. Myanmar said rohingya were producing terrorists. Israel says Palestianians are producing terrorists. The list goes on. You are using a very wrong line of thinking which is used by many different nations to oppress Muslims. In fact, go to some western forums sometime and they say saudi produces terrorists all the time. One day someone may oppress you and they may use the same "the saudis join ISIS..." excuse so be careful about using this against fellow Muslims.
I am not defending anyone here. I am basically saying there is an anti-China propaganda amid at using Muslims again and again as cannon fodder. For God's sake we should not be the victims again. You are not seeing the big picture here. You are being too emotional that's all. Any issues concerning Muslims have to be discussed in the OIC. You and I or anyone else have little to say in this matter. Today the motion to investigate the repression of Uighur in the Turkish Parliament was rejected by Erdogan's party, why? He does not want to get into trouble with China or jeopardize his business with China or he can not substantiate his claims regarding the Uighurs but he has no issues throwing other Islamic countries in the front-lines or bring the Uighurs to fight the kurds on his behalf. The Uighur have an armed wing inside China hoping to create an East Turkestan. Its an old movement you may have not heard of but that is a fact. Here is when you shove religion into politics, it becomes dangerous.


Why are you so concerned about China's national security? Are you Chinese? Do they pay you for it? If not then I recommend you stop being concerned and stop trying to defend them because you are putting yourself at a big risk of being wrong and inadvertently helping China oppress fellow Muslims. Also there are 1.2billion+ han chinese in the world, they have enough people who can defend their national security in a debate. You gain nothing from doing this. High risk, no reward. Sure maybe your country has some trade deal with them but you may get hit by a car tomorrow and you may never see the material benefit of it. Or maybe you'll live for a 100 years and enjoy the wealth from the deal but then one day you die and then it'll be time to pay up for defending China's oppression. Either way it does not look good.

As I said, I am not defending China, if you want to fight the Chinese please be my guest. But please abstain from accusing Saudi Arabia, its leaders or its people for what is happening to Muslims around the world. There are 56 Islamic countries accounted for 24% of world population I am sure if they were to take a collective measure they will be able to address any issues related to Muslims worldwide. Instead of creating a mini summit which contributes to nothing but create a division within the Islamic world. If Turkey or Malaysia or Qatar are so concerned about the Islamic world they would have set an example by cutting ties with Israel, stop feeding terrorists in Syria and in Libya, call for a OIC meeting and provide a road map to end the suffering within the Muslim world. Turkey has strong economic relation with Israel, a military coordination and arms deals. They can take the first step by cutting ties with Israel and China.

You should ask yourself a question to why China is doing what is doing. Muslims have been living in China for ages in peace and tranquility. So I say China has the right regardless of my opinion to protect its national security just like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or anyone else does.

I am not finished but its time to go to bed, its midnight and a few hrs left before fajir.
 

Scorpion

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who openly talks about wanting to change Islam and get together with Israel?
What is the link between Islam and getting together with Israel?
 

Berke2

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What is the link between Islam and getting together with Israel?
The emirati prince mentioned that because the article he shared talked about Muslim countries becoming less Islamic and the steps that arab governments have taken to facilitate it. Click the link he shared, you'll understand.
 

Berke2

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MBS has not commented on the issue concerning the Uighur period. Anti-Saudi media led by Erdogan and MB started this, just like how Erdogan said yesterday Saudi Arabia pressured Pakistan to withdraw form the summit or else it would take economic measures! You can tell the difference between the article published by the Xinhua and the rest of the links. Typical anti-Saudi media especially those posted by UK media which are controlled by anti-Saudi elements to turn Muslims against Saudi Arabia. You fell for it, I did not.
With all due respect, it is quite clear what he's talking about when he mentioned anti-extremism and de-radicalisation. He doesn't need to mention uighurs specifically for the statement to be aimed at them. Look at this way, you hadn't read the articles at the beginning of our conversation but as soon as uighur topic started, you instantly used similar language against the uighurs. MBS was hardly talking about tibetans when he made such a statement. It's pretty obvious what MBS was supporting when talked about anti-extremism or de-radicalisation. China regularly defends it's oppression of uighurs using such language.

The media may well be anti-saudi but they are not at fault here. They are simply adding 1+1. If anything, you need to blame the chinese as I've said before and then MBS for making the statement or not denying it.

I am not defending anyone here.
You are though bro. You've literally gone out of your way to make excuses for their behaviour. I'm not saying you're knowingly defending oppression of Muslims but you have without a doubt defended China.

I am basically saying there is an anti-China propaganda amid at using Muslims again and again as cannon fodder. For God's sake we should not be the victims again. You are not seeing the big picture here. You are being too emotional that's all.
It isn't propaganda, it's the truth. And no Muslims are being as cannon fodder here because most of us live far away from China. The only Muslims who are literal cannon fodder in this situation are the uighurs.

Bro I am not emotional lol. I know when my anger gets the better of me and I have certainly not lost control in this conversation. I'm sorry but accusing someone of being emotional is just a way to divert attention from the issue or aim a personal dig at their integrity so that people take them less seriously.

Any issues concerning Muslims have to be discussed in the OIC. You and I or anyone else have little to say in this matter.
Today the motion to investigate the repression of Uighur in the Turkish Parliament was rejected by Erdogan's party, why? He does not want to get into trouble with China or jeopardize his business with China or he can not substantiate his claims regarding the Uighurs but he has no issues throwing other Islamic countries in the front-lines or bring the Uighurs to fight the kurds on his behalf.
Bro why are you bringing Turkey into the debate constantly? I have never acted as if they are a perfect nation and neither do I think Erdogan is a perfect leader. Turkey is irrelevant here because we are discussing your countries behaviour. I feel as if you hate Turks so much that it blinds your judgement. This isn't the first time you've randomly blamed something on turkey in this conversation. Like fine, if turkey did that then they are the same as saudi. They ignored uighur suffering for some dollars. But this conversation specifically is about Saudi arabia.

]The Uighur have an armed wing inside China hoping to create an East Turkestan. Its an old movement you may have not heard of but that is a fact. Here is when you shove religion into politics, it becomes dangerous.




Like I said, you are using a minority to argue that it's okay to oppress 100,000s of uighurs. You argue like this today but tomorrow remember that saudi has produced far more terrorists than the uighur people, maybe tomorrow someone will invade and oppress you and use the same excuse. You are literally using the "these guys are terrorists..." narrative used by America in the 'war on terror' against fellow Muslims.

As I said, I am not defending China, if you want to fight the Chinese please be my guest. But please abstain from accusing Saudi Arabia, its leaders or its people for what is happening to Muslims around the world.
Bro you're on here throwing the same accusations at other Muslim countries so why should we not call out saudi arabia for it's wrongdoing? Like I'm sorry if you personally do not like that but Saudi Arabia is just another country, we are free to criticise it for it's wrongdoing. I regularly criticise even my own country so why would I be quiet about another country?

I defend you guys plenty anyway so it's not like all I do is criticise.

There are 56 Islamic countries accounted for 24% of world population I am sure if they were to take a collective measure they will be able to address any issues related to Muslims worldwide. Instead of creating a mini summit which contributes to nothing but create a division within the Islamic world.
Islamic countries for the most part are either toothless or ruled by awful men. So many wars in our lands by invaders and they haven't done anything. We both know that it is very unlikely for them to solve any major problem.

If Turkey or Malaysia or Qatar are so concerned about the Islamic world they would have set an example by cutting ties with Israel, stop feeding terrorists in Syria and in Libya, call for a OIC meeting and provide a road map to end the suffering within the Muslim world. Turkey has strong economic relation with Israel, a military coordination and arms deals. They can take the first step by cutting ties with Israel and China.
Saudi Arabia does exactly the same things as Turkey, Malaysia or Qatar bro. The criticism you levy at them like the Israel thing can be levied at most gulf arab states. Sure criticise them if you want but look at your for improvements too.

You should ask yourself a question to why China is doing what is doing. Muslims have been living in China for ages in peace and tranquility. So I say China has the right regardless of my opinion to protect its national security just like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or anyone else does.
You said this already and I answered it about 2 weeks ago.

If that is how you feel bro well then that's on you. I have done my part and tried to show you what you are doing is wrong. I can't really do much more.

I am not finished but its time to go to bed, its midnight and a few hrs left before fajir.
Don't worry bro, take your time with replies, I am in no rush and I don't mind late replies.
 
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UAE

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What do you Arabs, particularly you UAE arabs, think about this prince who openly talks about wanting to change Islam and get together with Israel?
I think we both have common challenges at a time fascist Iran and Turkey pose a threat to the region. It is in everybody's interest to call for normalization of relations with Israel for better future of the ME.
 

Berke2

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I think we both have common challenges at a time fascist Iran and Turkey pose a threat to the region. It is in everybody's interest to call for normalization of relations with Israel for better future of the ME.
I disagree.

But anyway, what's the deal with the prince/minister advocating that Islam needs to be changed? That is more worrying. I always figured they were not very good Muslims but to openly mention something like that is highly shameful.
 

UAE

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I disagree.

But anyway, what's the deal with the prince/minister advocating that Islam needs to be changed? That is more worrying. I always figured they were not very good Muslims but to openly mention something like that is highly shameful.
Your disagreement is deeply respected. The UAE acknowledges the existence of countries based on mutual respect. We maintain an open-door policy with everyone with no consideration for race, religion and or political leanings. Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan is the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation of the United Arab Emirates. He is a advocating for a change within the Islamic discourse not in Islam as a belief system.
 

Falcon29

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I think we both have common challenges at a time fascist Iran and Turkey pose a threat to the region. It is in everybody's interest to call for normalization of relations with Israel for better future of the ME.
Turkey does not pose a threat to the region and is friendly/has ties to most nations in the region. I can not see on what basis you came to this conclusion.

As for Iran, they have reached their peak in their quest for regional domination and are now hurting themselves by overreaching. We can see this in Iraq where it is not going well for them and people in general are no longer interested in what Iran has to sell. So Iran is now stuck in maintenance/defensive state, which would be even more defensive if Gulf leaders employed some means to counter Iran.

Instead they are looking for some security shield under Israel which is very embarrassing and doesn't even reflect reality. Israel will not help you guys counter Iran in any way. They will secure your political recognition just to go on offensive against Palestinians, nothing more. And we all know the US is your strategic partner in defense if any war erupts. So the US must be pressuring the Gulf leaders and others to recognize Israel in order to receive a promise to help against Iran, which we don't even know will be honored. And Gulf leaders have no backbone to resist that pressure. Or other Arab leaders that are weak and looking to foreigners for assurance.

Btw, even Iranian and Arabs can get along but they both need to correct their current aspirations and way for the region. Younger Arabs and younger Iranians do not want to fight or hate each other.
 

Falcon29

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What do you Arabs, particularly you UAE arabs, think about this prince who openly talks about wanting to change Islam and get together with Israel?

I thought it was a joke twitter profile but it's the real deal.
Now some Muslims will finally understand what I've been saying all along. The whole war on terror and Islamophobia of Western media and criticism of Muslims(even if some is deserved) is only in order to pressure Arabs into recognizing Israel's domination over the region. This is why they put an article calling that 'Islam's reformation'. Once all Arabs accept their domination they will stop covering the Middle East or Muslim affairs.

I am not an nationalist or care about ethnicity, but I'm still surprised by the UAE leadership and their 'proud Arab nationalism' that take pride in being followers and losers as opposed to leaders. UAE regime is not threatened by any Arabs, and Arabs in general don't seem bothered by UAE trying to be more modern. However, they are misguided when it comes to handling political affairs of Arabs and no one is really going to look up to them for leadership just based on their ties with the West and oil wealth. They need to stand out to common Arabs which they aren't making an effort to.

Thus they feel jealous of other Arabs and want to feel they have authority and are getting through the only option they think they have. If they just change and become more in tune with struggles of common people in the region they will become highly praised and respected. I don't know what's hard about it? If they are against it then something is not right, they may be anti-religion or something.

Another possibility is they are heavily intimidated by the US after what they seen happen to Saddam in Iraq or sanctions on Iran. Also they may genuinely feel threatened by other Arabs because of Saddam era. So they need to work now to reestablish trust between each other if they want to be the leaders of the region.
 

Berke2

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Your disagreement is deeply respected. The UAE acknowledges the existence of countries based on mutual respect. We maintain an open-door policy with everyone with no consideration for race, religion and or political leanings. Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan is the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation of the United Arab Emirates. He is a advocating for a change within the Islamic discourse not in Islam as a belief system.
Bro I am sorry but he is clearly advocating for changing Islam. You can try to word it as something else but it's clear as day what it actually is. The article he shared is literally called "Islam's reformation" and it is written by an islamaphobic scumbag from the UK who is despised by the Muslim population here. He even founded an organisation here (called the quilliam foundation) which is heavily involved in promoting an anti-Muslim agenda and making life harder for any Muslim who wishes to keep their beliefs. You're not from the UK so you didn't know but now you do. But I expect better from a minister. And it has been days since he tweeted and it's still there. Does he not have advisors who would warn him against promoting this? Or maybe he knows exactly what he's promoting.

I feel that gulf arabs have been given immense wealth by Allah. But the moment they've been tested with losing it, they have instantly tried to sell out Islam for power and wealth. Maybe not you personally of course. But many of your leaders and a good chunk of your population are definitely in bad waters.

I would like to add a minor point that your claim that the UAE maintains an open-door policy with everyone with no consideration for race, religion and or political leanings is not true either. The UAE has heavily invested in crushing muslim political parties who it deems as "islamist" in the middle east. The MB being an example. That alone disproves that claim.
 
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BATMAN

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@Berke2 what's your take on grave worshiping PM of Pakistan and his magical ring!
How is that compliant with Islam?

I hope you also know that his children are Jews!
 

Scorpion

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Lets assume for the sake of the argument MBS has mentioned anti-extremism and de-radicalization, by applying logic is not that a logical thing whether he is referring to the Uighur or not? extremism and radicalization does not necessary mean religious extremism/radicalization. It can happen in politics and many other areas. Whether I read or the article or not is irrelevant. Those who want to carry weapons and terrorize others whether Muslims or not are the same to me. China did not act this way out of the blue and the issue of Uighur dates back before the Saudi state was established so lets not blame MBS here. The issue of the Uighur is political issue, just like the issue of Burma. Is it a religious conflict? Or between two ethnicities in one of the Burmese provinces, Arkan province because there are Chinese Panthan Muslims living in Burma, Malay in Kaohsiung south of Myanmar and many live In the former Burmese capital, Rangoon ... and there are Muslims of Al-Zurbadi. Why do problems not occur with Muslim Rahwanja on the Bengali border? Who is behind all this? For whose benefit? You should ask yourself why is not China targeting other Muslims like the Hui? China guarantees freedom of belief for all. The problem of the Chinese government with the Uighurs Turks are that they hold a separatist ideology that harms the stability and security of the people of China< China see it this way. Imagine if an Afghani immigrant asking for the separation of Baluchistan comes to you, what would your position be? And if the government suppresses that separatist ideas would that be wrong? The rest of the Muslim ethnicities in China live in peace, love their government, and support the stability and unity of China even the among the Uighurs.

This is an issue that a number of western countries invest in to destabilize the security and stability of China and to plant Islamic terrorist cells that sabotage China's economic projects, one of which is the Silk Road. And again, I do not care about China.

There was a time when the Uighurs, the Muslim Turks, revolutionized, and Chinese Muslims came out against them from the Hui ethnicity and put down their revolution. The issue is not a religious issue but rather a political and ethnic one. Just because they are Muslim it does not mean their cause is legitimate. When I say you are emotional, I mean it because you clearly have zero clue about the background of the entire issue. Saudi Arabia took 1 million Burmese and a similar number of Uighurs back in the day and the result is now their asking for the separation of Hijaz. You may want to import Uighurs into Pakistan and wait couple of years util they start demanding self governing. The Uighurs themselves are not part of China, they migrated from Eastern Mongolia. While I do not deny that there is some arbitrariness against Uighurs but I would not exaggerate the issue. You bring a political conflict you sprinkle some verses on it and hadiths and then use that to send Muslims from different countries to fight for a political cause.
 

Berke2

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@Berke2 what's your take on grave worshiping PM of Pakistan and his magical ring!
How is that compliant with Islam?

I hope you also know that his children are Jews!
It's not something I agree with bro. Not a fan of sufi shrines etc...

He does have a dodgy past but I thought well he's changed since the 1990s. I'm not going to hold someones past actions against them if they try to change. So I don't comment on things like his kids too much etc... Sure definitely he failed his kids by allowing them to grow up in a unislamic environment and I hope he tries to give them dawah.
 

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