The Myth of Secularism in India | World Defense

The Myth of Secularism in India

I.R.A

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india since its inception has been selling itself as a democratic, secular state. Indian state has been successful in selling this idea that it were them who introduced secularism to india via their constitution post partitions. If are to take india as a state post partition only, then and then only we can say that their claim is truthful, but is that the reality?

A people who follow castes within their own belief system, who categorize people based on superior caste, inferior caste, who are gender biased, commit female infanticide and are a fond of light skin color........ how can one accept their claim of 'them being founders of secularism in india?'. In my opinion this is a sheer blatant disregard of india's pre partition history and a try at stealing credit from its previous rulers.

No matter how vigorously they deny (specially their current government) and how enthusiastically they try telling the outside world and their young kids, that india's pre partition rulers were evil who hated Hindus and Hinduism, but they won't be able to justify the fact that how come Hindus have always remained the majority in this region. If the Muslim rulers who ruled india for centuries were spreading Islam by swords then how did such a huge majority escape that? Do historical counts provide any evidence or telling of mass exodus of Hindus from india to any other adjoining territory / country? It is unbelievable how india has quickly transformed into an intolerant extremist majority within some 70 years of majority rule. How they have nourished such hate for faith and beliefs of their previous rulers Muslim / British i.e. Islam and Christians. This in itself is evidence enough that as long as there were people who lived during those rules this majority kept its hate and intolerance hidden, but now just in two successive tenures of a Hindu nationalist party, we see triumphs and trials at rewriting and manipulating the history, hate being spewed for people like Tipu Sultan (who had majority Hindu citizenry living in his domain), cries that Taj Mahal was built on so and so holy Hindu place, demolishing of historic worship structures including Babri masjid.

If what I say above is hogwash then how one denies the naked truth that, the ideology that killed Gandhi has been voted twice to run the government, second time with majority numbers. The religious hatred being spread from the highest levels with inciting their followers for the lowest possible acts of raping dead Muslim women, burning of Churches, raping their own women, disciplining the women who try celebrating valentines day etc. Cow protection and vigilantes, lynching people for their eating habits. And the worst "wishing to marry white skinned Kashmiri women after removal of 370" are all signs and indicators of a highly intolerant majority that doesn't accept anything else but submission to their beliefs and ways. No democratic or secular state would ever impose a curfew for more than 54 days on people who haven't even started any protests yet, no civil sensible people can ever think of injuring young children by pellet guns, no tolerant civilised people can imagine burning / lynching / killing minority and capturing that on tape for pleasure of others. This happens only in india of RSS followers, india of modi, india of BJP .......... they are not secular, they are not democratic, they are not even civilised by any modern measures.

This myth of being secular is legacy of india's pre partition rulers and testimony of how tolerant those rulers have been of the majority beliefs, no matter how backward and superstitious they were and are.


@Mangus Ortus Novem @Khafee @The Sandman @BATMAN

@Dubious @AliYusuf @Mingle @Mastankhan @PakSword
 

AliYusuf

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india since its inception has been selling itself as a democratic, secular state. Indian state has been successful in selling this idea that it were them who introduced secularism to india via their constitution post partitions. If are to take india as a state post partition only, then and then only we can say that their claim is truthful, but is that the reality?

A people who follow castes within their own belief system, who categorize people based on superior caste, inferior caste, who are gender biased, commit female infanticide and are a fond of light skin color........ how can one accept their claim of 'them being founders of secularism in india?'. In my opinion this is a sheer blatant disregard of india's pre partition history and a try at stealing credit from its previous rulers.

No matter how vigorously they deny (specially their current government) and how enthusiastically they try telling the outside world and their young kids, that india's pre partition rulers were evil who hated Hindus and Hinduism, but they won't be able to justify the fact that how come Hindus have always remained the majority in this region. If the Muslim rulers who ruled india for centuries were spreading Islam by swords then how did such a huge majority escape that? Do historical counts provide any evidence or telling of mass exodus of Hindus from india to any other adjoining territory / country? It is unbelievable how india has quickly transformed into an intolerant extremist majority within some 70 years of majority rule. How they have nourished such hate for faith and beliefs of their previous rulers Muslim / British i.e. Islam and Christians. This in itself is evidence enough that as long as there were people who lived during those rules this majority kept its hate and intolerance hidden, but now just in two successive tenures of a Hindu nationalist party, we see triumphs and trials at rewriting and manipulating the history, hate being spewed for people like Tipu Sultan (who had majority Hindu citizenry living in his domain), cries that Taj Mahal was built on so and so holy Hindu place, demolishing of historic worship structures including Babri masjid.

If what I say above is hogwash then how one denies the naked truth that, the ideology that killed Gandhi has been voted twice to run the government, second time with majority numbers. The religious hatred being spread from the highest levels with inciting their followers for the lowest possible acts of raping dead Muslim women, burning of Churches, raping their own women, disciplining the women who try celebrating valentines day etc. Cow protection and vigilantes, lynching people for their eating habits. And the worst "wishing to marry white skinned Kashmiri women after removal of 370" are all signs and indicators of a highly intolerant majority that doesn't accept anything else but submission to their beliefs and ways. No democratic or secular state would ever impose a curfew for more than 54 days on people who haven't even started any protests yet, no civil sensible people can ever think of injuring young children by pellet guns, no tolerant civilised people can imagine burning / lynching / killing minority and capturing that on tape for pleasure of others. This happens only in india of RSS followers, india of modi, india of BJP .......... they are not secular, they are not democratic, they are not even civilised by any modern measures.

This myth of being secular is legacy of india's pre partition rulers and testimony of how tolerant those rulers have been of the majority beliefs, no matter how backward and superstitious they were and are.


@Mangus Ortus Novem @Khafee @The Sandman @BATMAN

@Dubious @AliYusuf @Mingle @Mastankhan @PakSword
You pretty much summed it up. There used to be a well read intellectual class in India, especially in Bengal. But seems like they have been indoctrinated to the cow belt mentality. What can you say about a nation which elected a man like Modi? And they have re-elected him for a 2nd term with even more majority. Day by day he is gaining in popularity through his fascist shenanigans. India is in the process of becoming solely a nation of ultra right radicals. I see the seeds of their disintegration via implosion is being sown inadvertently by the Modi regime's current divisive policies.
 

I.R.A

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You pretty much summed it up. There used to be a well read intellectual class in India, especially in Bengal. But seems like they have been indoctrinated to the cow belt mentality. What can you say about a nation which elected a man like Modi? And they have re-elected him for a 2nd term with even more majority. Day by day he is gaining in popularity through his fascist shenanigans. India is in the process of becoming solely a nation of ultra right radicals. I see the seeds of their disintegration via implosion is being sown inadvertently by the Modi regime's current divisive policies.
My plea is with or without modi this was bound to happen, it is inherent in their belief and psychology that are intolerant of any other faith, ritual and people. The narrow mindedness existed, modi acted only as a catalyst and brought it to limelight, made it mainstream and more visible now. The myth of coexistence and harmony in that society is not because of them (which they so keenly propagate and portray) it was inherited from previous rules, and it was tolerated because it was need of the time. 72 years is not big enough of a time for a nation, but as soon as they got a representative government they went berserk. It is hypocritical of them first to make it look like as something which they introduce, second to carry on fooling the rest of the world thru their lies.
 

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My plea is with or without modi this was bound to happen, it is inherent in their belief and psychology that are intolerant of any other faith, ritual and people. The narrow mindedness existed, modi acted only as a catalyst and brought it to limelight, made it mainstream and more visible now. The myth of coexistence and harmony in that society is not because of them (which they so keenly propagate and portray) it was inherited from previous rules, and it was tolerated because it was need of the time. 72 years is not big enough of a time for a nation, but as soon as they got a representative government they went berserk. It is hypocritical of them first to make it look like as something which they introduce, second to carry on fooling the rest of the world thru their lies.
This will lead to their eventual undoing. Their divisive policies is alienating their around 300 million religious minorities and will ultimately cause internal strife and socio-political implosion. These oafs are not getting the big picture of the consequences of their actions and policies.
 

I.R.A

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This will lead to their eventual undoing. Their divisive policies is alienating their around 300 million religious minorities and will ultimately cause internal strife and socio-political implosion. These oafs are not getting the big picture of the consequences of their actions and policies.
The world needs to know the biggest human crisis in awaiting. It deserves their attention to prevent it before it happens.

Pakistan cannot afford to have an unstable neighboring country, we need to be proactive to bring this to world's attention. The actual real picture underneath that fake rich diverse culture needs to be shown to the world. Its a human crisis not for minorities, but for women and helpless of india.
 

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The world needs to know the biggest human crisis in awaiting. It deserves their attention to prevent it before it happens.

Pakistan cannot afford to have an unstable neighboring country, we need to be proactive to bring this to world's attention. The actual real picture underneath that fake rich diverse culture needs to be shown to the world. Its a human crisis not for minorities, but for women and helpless of india.
The neighbor is almost 7 times Pakistan in population. It is the second most populous country in the world. At the moment, the most we can do is to keep on mounting the diplomatic pressure on India and not to let the Kashmir issue die down on the international stage. We need to keep the momentum of our diplomatic offensive against them and spread the awareness of the Indian designs on Kashmir worldwide. But that is the immediate problem.

What I am saying is that it is their same approach and hindutva centric policies which will similarly be alienating the rest of their minorities eventually. Kashmir (Muslim), Khalistan (Sikh) and Nagaland (Christian) are a few issues that are coming to mind which can cause them to implode & fragment. Provided we sustain our diplomatic offensive against them.
 

I.R.A

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The neighbor is almost 7 times Pakistan in population. It is the second most populous country in the world.
I understand your point sir, but this is what I am saying there are millions of humans inside india who don't have a voice, e.g. Dalits, nobody owns them, we need to become their voice and start lending them our moral support. Where india is headed right now it is a disaster bound to happen, a human crisis and we will be affected by it, a civil war like situation in that country cannot be ignored by us, Kashmir is our priority but the situation is more grim now, we cannot the humanitarian crisis that is in process. The other neighbors of india are submissive to its wishes, it has only been us, refusing their hegemony, so now it is our duty to raise awareness and lend our moral support to oppressed humanity in india. Just recently one of the banks there has refused the bank account holders their money, it was heart crunching to see elderly people with all their savings looted in that manner, their government doesn't care much about its people.
 

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Indian religious minorities face increased violence under Modi — report


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The US State Department has said religious intolerance in India is growing under PM Modi's right-wing government. India said that a foreign government had "no right" to comment on the country's internal affairs.

A 10-minute-long video of a brutal lynching that emerged recently on Indian social media has shocked Indian Muslims. The footage shows a group of men beating a 22-year-old Muslim man, Tabrez Ansari, in the eastern state of Jharkhand. The crowd forced him to shout "Jai Shri Ram" (Hail Lord Ram) — a slogan widely used by Hindu hard-liners — as he was tied to a pole and then severely beaten for an alleged burglary.

Ansari died at the hospital on Saturday, the same day the US State Department released its international religious freedom report, which paints a dark picture of the situation for religious minorities in India.

"There were reports of religiously motivated killings, assaults, riots, discrimination, vandalism, and actions restricting the right of individuals to practice their religious beliefs," the report said. "Authorities often failed to prosecute perpetrators of 'cow vigilante' attacks, which included killings, mob violence, and intimidation."

The Indian Ministry of External Affairs rejected the US report, saying a foreign government had no right to pronounce on the state of Indian citizens' constitutionally protected rights.

"India is proud of its secular credentials, and its status as the largest democracy and a pluralistic society with a longstanding commitment to tolerance and inclusion," Raveesh Kumar, a foreign ministry spokesperson, said in a statement.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is in New Delhi this week for talks with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, although human rights issues do not appear to be on the agenda at this point.

New reports of violence

However, many Indians feel that the overwhelming mandate won by Modi's nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in last month's general elections has damaged the state of Indian secularism and emboldened those carrying out hate crimes against minority religions.

Muslims, in particular, are often the target of religious animosity. Muslims make up nearly 14% of India's 1.3 billion people. Extreme Hindu groups have also targeted Dalits, the "untouchables" in the caste system, and Christians, whose churches have been vandalized in Delhi and the central state of Madhya Pradesh.

Read more: Right-wing Hindu groups target Christmas in India

There have been at least five violent incidents since the BJP's election victory in May. In at least four different cases, victims were targeted for reasons as varied as possessing beef, protesting against caste-based discrimination or simply being Muslim. In a fifth incident, a school teacher in Jharkhand was arrested for a two-year-old Facebook post defending the right of Adivasi communities to eat beef.

And shortly after the brutal beating of Tabrez Ansari in Jharkhand, a teacher at a Muslim seminary in Kolkata, was allegedly pushed off a moving train for refusing to chant Hindu slogans.

Muslims concerned about safety

India's Muslims are concerned that they are being systematically targeted. Syeda Hameed, an educator and former member of India's planning commission, told DW that she felt Indian Muslims are in for a very difficult time.

"Indian Muslims are currently facing one of the most trying moments in our history," she said.

A Muslim member of parliament, Asaduddin Owaisi, spoke to DW about the brutal beating of the Muslim man in Jharkhand.

"There has been not one word from the prime minister or the home minister, Amit Shah, about this horrific incident in Jharkhand," he said. "Why this silence? These incidents are not going to stop."

Read more: Mob lynches Muslim man accused of cow smuggling

Apart from the US report, reports by the Mumbai-based Centre for Study of Society and Secularism and the UK-based Minority Rights Group International both indicate that minority groups in India are increasingly encountering hate crimes, such as lynching, threats, attacks on places of worship and forced conversion.

Social activist Shabnam Hashmi pointed out that Modi had reiterated his commitment to protecting minorities during a post-election victory speech.

"Unless the political leadership acts and shows that Muslims and Dalits are safe and will be protected, there is no meaning in paying lip service," Hashmi told DW, adding that there seems to be a "discernible pattern" in attacks against Muslims.

 

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With 43% share in hate crimes, UP still most unsafe for minorities, Dalits
Between 2016 and 2019, National Human Rights Commission registered 2,008 cases where minorities/Dalits were harassed, including cases of lynchings. Of these, Uttar Pradesh alone accounted for 869 cases.

Mukesh Rawat
New Delhi

1569844436600.png

Data on cases registered by NHRC show a decreasing trend in harassment of minorities but an increase in the harassment of Dalits. (Photo: Reuters)

Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath and the state police may claim to have improved the state's law and order situation but records of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) show that despite this, Uttar Pradesh continues to be the hub of harassment of minorities and Dalits.
So much so that in the past three years, 43 per cent of all cases of harassment of minorities and Dalits, taken up by NHRC, were registered in Uttar Pradesh. This includes cases of lynching.

Between 2016 and 2019 (till June 15), NHRC registered 2,008 cases where minorities/Dalits were harassed. Of these, Uttar Pradesh alone accounted for 869 cases.

However, even though Uttar Pradesh has a lion's share of these cases, the state has seen a decrease in cases of harassment of minorities. Between
2016-17 and 2018-19, such cases decreased by 54 per cent (from 42 cases to 19).

Meanwhile, in regards to Dalits, the number of harassment cases registered by NHRC in Uttar Pradesh saw an increase of nearly 41 per cent (from 221 cases in 2016-17 to 311 in 2018-19)

This information was revealed in a written reply by the Union home ministry in Parliament on July 16. It was in response to a question asked by K Navaskani, an Indian Union Muslim League MP from Tamil Nadu.

Navaskani had asked the government to provide details of complaints of harassment of minorities and Dalits, including lynching, during the past three years.

HARASSMENT OF MINORITIES DECREASING, DALITS RISING
Overall, NHRC data on cases registered by it show a decreasing trend in harassment of minorities but an increase in the harassment of Dalits.

In 2016-17, NHRC registered 117 cases where minorities were harassed in India. This figure fell to 67 in 2017-18 but rose to 79 the next year. This year (from April 1 to June 15), NHRC has registered five cases where minorities were harassed.

In regards to harassment of Dalits, cases registered by NHRC have seen an increase of 33 per cent in the past three years. In 2016-17, NHRC registered 505 cases. By 2018-19 this figure increased to 672 -- nearly two cases every day. This year (till June 15) NHRC has already registered 99 cases where Dalits were harassed.

The prevalence of harassment of minorities and Dalits in Uttar Pradesh can also be understood from the fact that the total number of cases registered by NHRC in Uttar Pradesh (869 cases) is 563 per cent more than the ones from Rajasthan (131 cases) -- a state which is closest to Uttar Pradesh in terms of harassment of minorities and Dalits.

HARASSING MINORITIES, DALITS -- A HINDI BELT PHENOMENON
Another trend that can be deduced from the NHRC data is that harassment of minorities and Dalits in India is concentrated mainly in a few Hindi-speaking states.

Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Bihar, Haryana and Madhya Pradesh (states that cover much of the 'cow belt') account for 64 per cent cases of harassment of minorities and Dalits in the country. If we add Delhi, Gujarat and Uttarakhand, this share balloons to 75 per cent.
1569844520500.png


In contrast, the five southern states -- Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Telangana, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, along with the Union territory of Pudducherry collectively account for just 9.5 per cent cases where minorities and Dalits were harassed in the past three years.

The eight Northeastern states had 0.54 per cent cases to their share, while eastern states like West Bengal and Odisha together had 5.17 cases in their share.

Note: Figures mentioned in this report are the number of cases registered by the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC). They do not necessarily reflect the total cases of harassment of minorities and Dalits in India. The actual figure is likely to be higher than this because not all cases are taken up by the NHRC.
 

AliYusuf

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With 43% share in hate crimes, UP still most unsafe for minorities, Dalits
Between 2016 and 2019, National Human Rights Commission registered 2,008 cases where minorities/Dalits were harassed, including cases of lynchings. Of these, Uttar Pradesh alone accounted for 869 cases.

Mukesh Rawat
New Delhi

View attachment 10244
Data on cases registered by NHRC show a decreasing trend in harassment of minorities but an increase in the harassment of Dalits. (Photo: Reuters)

Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath and the state police may claim to have improved the state's law and order situation but records of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) show that despite this, Uttar Pradesh continues to be the hub of harassment of minorities and Dalits.
So much so that in the past three years, 43 per cent of all cases of harassment of minorities and Dalits, taken up by NHRC, were registered in Uttar Pradesh. This includes cases of lynching.

Between 2016 and 2019 (till June 15), NHRC registered 2,008 cases where minorities/Dalits were harassed. Of these, Uttar Pradesh alone accounted for 869 cases.

However, even though Uttar Pradesh has a lion's share of these cases, the state has seen a decrease in cases of harassment of minorities. Between
2016-17 and 2018-19, such cases decreased by 54 per cent (from 42 cases to 19).

Meanwhile, in regards to Dalits, the number of harassment cases registered by NHRC in Uttar Pradesh saw an increase of nearly 41 per cent (from 221 cases in 2016-17 to 311 in 2018-19)

This information was revealed in a written reply by the Union home ministry in Parliament on July 16. It was in response to a question asked by K Navaskani, an Indian Union Muslim League MP from Tamil Nadu.

Navaskani had asked the government to provide details of complaints of harassment of minorities and Dalits, including lynching, during the past three years.

HARASSMENT OF MINORITIES DECREASING, DALITS RISING
Overall, NHRC data on cases registered by it show a decreasing trend in harassment of minorities but an increase in the harassment of Dalits.

In 2016-17, NHRC registered 117 cases where minorities were harassed in India. This figure fell to 67 in 2017-18 but rose to 79 the next year. This year (from April 1 to June 15), NHRC has registered five cases where minorities were harassed.

In regards to harassment of Dalits, cases registered by NHRC have seen an increase of 33 per cent in the past three years. In 2016-17, NHRC registered 505 cases. By 2018-19 this figure increased to 672 -- nearly two cases every day. This year (till June 15) NHRC has already registered 99 cases where Dalits were harassed.

The prevalence of harassment of minorities and Dalits in Uttar Pradesh can also be understood from the fact that the total number of cases registered by NHRC in Uttar Pradesh (869 cases) is 563 per cent more than the ones from Rajasthan (131 cases) -- a state which is closest to Uttar Pradesh in terms of harassment of minorities and Dalits.

HARASSING MINORITIES, DALITS -- A HINDI BELT PHENOMENON
Another trend that can be deduced from the NHRC data is that harassment of minorities and Dalits in India is concentrated mainly in a few Hindi-speaking states.

Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Bihar, Haryana and Madhya Pradesh (states that cover much of the 'cow belt') account for 64 per cent cases of harassment of minorities and Dalits in the country. If we add Delhi, Gujarat and Uttarakhand, this share balloons to 75 per cent.
View attachment 10245

In contrast, the five southern states -- Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Telangana, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, along with the Union territory of Pudducherry collectively account for just 9.5 per cent cases where minorities and Dalits were harassed in the past three years.

The eight Northeastern states had 0.54 per cent cases to their share, while eastern states like West Bengal and Odisha together had 5.17 cases in their share.

Note: Figures mentioned in this report are the number of cases registered by the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC). They do not necessarily reflect the total cases of harassment of minorities and Dalits in India. The actual figure is likely to be higher than this because not all cases are taken up by the NHRC.
Very informative find @Khafee Sahib. Thanks for sharing. This actually consolidates what I have been suspecting for the last few years.
 

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the naked truth that, the ideology that killed Gandhi has been voted twice to run the government
This beautifully sums up the whole post the fact is majority of Indian society didn't accepted the idea of secularism and has invited this ideology twice through a democratic process. Quaid-e-Azam had the vision to see this eventually happening he knew which community will suffer the most under an extremist mindset. We can see how right he was.

Note: This is coming from a Home Minister not some unknown member
 
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I.R.A

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There is none. Sikhs and Muslims are not treated well in India. What secularism are we talking about?
Even dalits (who are low caste Hindus) have to bear the brunt of this extremist intolerant ideology.

That is what we are saying, there is no secularism in india, so why they keep telling this lie so blatantly ........ in fact why the world gets fooled by them so easily and conveniently?
 

I.R.A

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This beautifully sums up the whole post the fact is majority of Indian society didn't accepted the idea of secularism and has invited this ideology twice through a democratic process. Quaid-e-Azam had the vision to see this eventually happening he knew which community will suffer the most under an extremist mindset. We can see how right he was.

Note: This is coming from a Home Minister not some unknown member
Muhammad Ali Jinnah was really a visionary. No doubt about that when we look at today's india. All the ones who opposed him are now fast regretting their forefathers' decision.
 

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