UAE and France sign deal for 80 Rafale fighter jets | Page 2 | World Defense

UAE and France sign deal for 80 Rafale fighter jets

Caprxl

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In my personal view I dare to differ from my brothers here & will be devil's advocate & propose this deal as a Win-Win for UAE. How you say? Well for that purpose we will have to view this deal from a different strategical angle;

1) From the current example of USAF (cutting F-35 numbers in future defence plans as Congress keeps denying the asked numbers) even with USA economy & might of her defence budget, USA cannot afford an all 5th Gen platforms Air Force, therefore they are going for a combination of 4.5th Gen ( Multirole + Air Superiority ) platforms along with the 5th Gen.

Multi-role Aircraft:
Basically, what USAF requires for the vast majority of its everyday tasks is an aircraft that is very easy and not too costly to operate, maintain and upgrade. So, an affordable, medium-weight multi-role fighter akin to what JF-17 Thunder is to PAF. So comes the F-36 Kingsnake, a true modern 4.5 Gen Multi-role Aircraft possibly to replace F-16 with improvements such as increased pay-load capacity, fuel & modern Avionics Suits & Radar to name a few along with a higher more powerful engine.

For Air Superiority, F-15-EX is the answer which needs no introduction. New purchase along with upgradation of older blocks (probably) will do just fine.

Above two 4.5 gen will complement 5th Gen F-35. Just to give a basic understanding of how these assets will sync & achieve the combine objective, is a single simulated case among many, where a 5th gen (F-35/F-22) will lead to perform SEAD/DEAD tasks by pin-pointing the target co-ordinates using advance sensor fusion & AI & passing them on to F-15/F-18/F-36 (conventional aircrafts) to let loose their devastating load.

For any modern Airforce, the above model is a go to solution, unless, a country needs require a very small Airforce (as in case of Switzerland) or she has unlimited resources (monetary & capable+trained man power). Transition from complete 4.5th generation aircrafts to 5th or above would take decades at-least.

2) So, coming back to the matter at hand why UAEAF went for Rafale instead of latest souped up F-16 or maybe even F-21 with their sole exclusive rights yet again just as Block-60 (am sure if IAF/India was offered such a deal by LM, it would have been a walk in the park for UAEAF/UAE)?

Well, maybe after due diligence & homework done by UAEAF, they concluded some capabilities of Rafale F-4 Standard not available in Vipers Block-70/F-21 as mentioned above;

More on the F4 standard:




In the future the Rafale F4 airframe will be upgraded with low-observability modifications which will made the aircraft able to old its own against future fighters.
&
The F4 with its new low-observability modifications, and ability to control UCAV's, like those below, brings a new level of technology & capability.



3) Or a political side as well to it? Not putting all eggs in a single basket, who knows down the lane UAE joins French Next Gen program? They do have a lot of $$ & can become a joint partner in French FCAS. Recently, a lot of voices coming again out of Europe that the continent cannot see two equivalent Next Generation Aircrafts, as constrained budgets & resources might combine FCAS & Tempest in future.

In that case, a Rafale-F4 deal will smooth & pave the way for joining French Next Gen program FCAS/TEMPEST or whatever comes out of Europe. Even if it's just the integration of the Aircraft as Off-the-shelf purchase, the Rafale-F4 deal is not having any de-merits to it.

Last but not the least in any way, this also becomes as a back-up plan in case F-35 are not made available to UAE.

Time will tell either USA blinks to her close ally getting angry over exporting F-35 to UAE, resulting in loosing a future customer & annoying strong partner in Middle-East or put her own interest first & make a sensible decision.

So, just as I thought, a Win-Win for UAE, a really wise decision in my opinion (^_^).
 

Strike Eagle

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Wow this is a $25B+ deal?
B/w F-16 blk60, Rafales and F-35 will make UAEAF the most strongest AF in the region by a mile!

Hopefully UAE got massive concessions from the french vis a vis ToT or local offsets to kickstart its aero industry.
I would be shocked to see the Emiratis gain tech transfer for the Rafale, since the French are very skeptical when it comes to handing out their technology, even their so called "best buddy" India, did not receive Rafale production.

I am beginning to believe a lot of the deals that Qataris, Saudis and Emiratis do are becoming more political than actual "needs". but overall, this good for Dassault, since many people were believing the Rafale was beginning to suck in export contracts
 

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I would be shocked to see the Emiratis gain tech transfer for the Rafale, since the French are very skeptical when it comes to handing out their technology, even their so called "best buddy" India, did not receive Rafale production.

I am beginning to believe a lot of the deals that Qataris, Saudis and Emiratis do are becoming more political than actual "needs". but overall, this good for Dassault, since many people were believing the Rafale was beginning to suck in export contracts
You need to see what was done with the M2k-9.
 

Khafee

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Considering the UAE's work with LM on block 60 F16s...
...and some partial ToT if I recall...wouldn't it have been better to build off of that and go for block 70?

Same training, same spares, logistics, etc. It would have been much more streamlined and overall cheaper for the same quantity of jets. F16 block 70 is no slouch either...and can go toe to toe roughly with other 4++ gen fighters. Plus the French stuff is usually the most expensive(though capable) as far as western equipment goes. Personally based off UAE's efforts to kickstart its own indigenous defense industry...I would think that throwing all that money at LM(building off of block 60s history)...US might have even allowed UAE to integrate UAE's own weapons onto F16s if this same contract for this much money was given to them. Stuffing the pockets of LM and the fat politicians would also have gone a long way for the F35 acquisition.

Blk61 is better than Blk70/72. Any new orders will be of Blk61.

Unlike other F16 users, UAEAF enjoys the luxury of using Non-US missiles, such as Mica and Al Tariq.

As mentioned earlier, the M2k-9 was not an off the shelf buy, we got a lot in terms of Tech. more is expected from the Rafale deal.

1638888995600.png

1638889591600.png
 

TsAr

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I think they just wanna spend money on shinny jets just like they do on shinny cars and big buildings
Well your thinking is flawed. There is a benefit for Pakistan as well, how?
  1. PAF would be able to participate in training exercises with UAEAF, plus also gain valuable tips from UAEAF Rafale pilots that could help them counter IAF Rafale
  2. With 80 Rafale ordered by UAE, 24 by Greece, 30 by Egypt which means that any subsequent order placed by IAF would have to wait for like a decade.
 

Khafee

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In light of this order, Dassault has increased production from 1 aircraft per month to 2, and later 3.
 

TsAr

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Well your thinking is flawed. There is a benefit for Pakistan as well, how?
  1. PAF would be able to participate in training exercises with UAEAF, plus also gain valuable tips from UAEAF Rafale pilots that could help them counter IAF Rafale
  2. With 80 Rafale ordered by UAE, 24 by Greece, 30 by Egypt which means that any subsequent order placed by IAF would have to wait for like a decade.
Further adding to the above, lets not forget that the first batch of IAF Rafale's landed in UAE but the secong batch just got refueled mid air, @Khafee would you like to elaborate on this point.
 

Khafee

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Further adding to the above, lets not forget that the first batch of IAF Rafale's landed in UAE but the secong batch just got refueled mid air, @Khafee would you like to elaborate on this point.
Only if you want me to create another shit storm :xD:
 

Khafee

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Just some interesting pics

Mirage 4000 prototype
1638978463900.png


Mirage 2000
1638978806500.png



Fokker 100 ABE-NG testbed
1638978407600.png

1638980164500.png

1638980193000.png
 

Khafee

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Can you shed some light on to the M2k upgrade done by UAEAF?
Old article but will give you a good idea of what it was all about.

One careful owner – why Mirage sale might be no illusion

29 April 2010
1638989837700.png


As the UAE stands on the brink of ordering new Rafale strike fighters to equip its rapidly modernising air force, it has been reported that one of the nation's requirements is that Dassault should buy back, or find a buyer for, its fleet of multi-role Mirage 2000-9 fighters.


But the Mirage 2000-9 is far from being obsolete or past its prime and it has been estimated that $3.4 billion of the $9.9 billion spent by the UAE has been used on the Mirage 2000-9 series (with $6.5 billion spent on the Block 60 F-16). The UAE, therefore, naturally expects to realise a good price for these versatile, modern and highly capable strike fighters.


Though the UAE’s first batch of 36 Mirage 2000s were purchased in 1986, 30 survivors have been extensively refurbished and then upgraded – bringing them to the same standard as the 32 new Mirage 2000-9s ordered in 1998 under the Bader 21 purchase agreement and delivered from 2003. As such, all surviving UAE Air Force and Air Defence Mirage 2000s now share the same 21st Century 2000-9 configuration and, thus, represent the top of the Mirage 2000 evolutionary tree.


The Mirage 2000-9 incorporates state-of-the-art technologies and advanced capabilities that the basic Mirage 2000 lacks, many of which were incorporated as a direct result of experience gained by Dassault during the development of the Rafale, and which may be viewed as ‘Rafale technology’, with similar modular avionics, an LCD glass cockpit with full night vision goggles compatibility, and advanced sensors and systems.


At the core of the Mirage 2000-9’s navigation and attack system is a Thales-and Dassault Aviation-developed modular data processing unit (MDPU) that is similar to that used by the Rafale. This serves as the mission computer, manages the navigation and attack system, controls the cockpit display system and generates symbology for the head-up display (HUD) and head-down displays (HDDs). As a result, the Mirage 2000-9 is claimed to enjoy a world-beating, highly intuitive man-machine interface.


Though the Mirage 2000-9 is externally very similar to the original Mirage 2000C fighter, it actually represents the culmination of several stages of technical advance. The Mirage 2000-5 was developed as a private venture multi-role update of the fighter Mirage 2000 with a new Thales RDY multimode radar, a wide-angle HUD, hands-on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls, and with provision for a Thales TV/CT CLDP laser designator pod.


A two-seat Mirage 2000B was extensively upgraded and modified to serve as the first Mirage 2000-5 prototype, making its maiden flight on October 24 1990. Thirty-seven existing Armée de l’Air Mirage 2000s were upgraded to 2000-5F standards, becoming operational in 2000.


The aircraft was further upgraded for export customers as the Mirage 2000-5 Mark 2. This added RDY-2 radar with enhanced air-to-ground capabilities. The Mk 2 also gained a new Thales Totem 3000 ring laser gyro IN/GPS, an ICMS 2 countermeasures suite and a Samir DDM missile warning system, higher resolution colour cockpit displays, and provision for a Topsight helmet-mounted display.


Compared to the Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2, the UAE’s -9 variant incorporates what Dassault coyly refers to as “additional operating capabilities specified by the UAE AF & AD”, and which include enhanced survivability and much-improved long-range stand-off air-to-ground capabilities.


With the USA unwilling to facilitate the integration of certain local weapons on aircraft that it supplies to the UAE, to avoid upsetting certain regional sensitivities, it has been the Mirage 2000 that has acted as the delivery platform for the UAE’s Black Shaheen cruise missile (a derivative of the MBDA Apache/SCALP/Storm Shadow) and the MBDA Al Hakim family of rocket-boosted LGBs. The original UAE Mirage 2000EAD was equipped with a ‘day-only’ ATLIS II laser targeting pod, but the Mirage 2000-9 was provided with a new Shehab laser designation pod – with a Nahar navigation FLIR in the dedicated pylon used to attach the Shehab pod to the aircraft.


The Mirage 2000-9 has a unique new IMEWS electronic warfare and countermeasures system. IMEWS was designed and developed by Thales, Elettronica and MBDA to UAE Air Force and Air Defence requirements.


The aircraft also has a new Thales communication, navigation, identification (CNI) suite, with a frequency-agile Thomrad V/UHF secure voice radio system, and an LU2 tactical datalink.


The Mirage 2000-9 is powered by the latest version of the SNECMA M53-P2 turbofan, incorporating FADEC and a sophisticated autothrottle (which provides automatic control of engine speed to maintain whatever speed is selected by the pilot).


Development of the Mirage 2000-9 was spread over five years and was divided into two distinct weapon delivery and navigation system standards, known as SAD91 and SAD92. Deliveries of 32 new-build aircraft to SAD91 standards began at the end of April 2003 and continued until early 2004.


Retrofitting of the UAE’s surviving 30 Mirage 2000EAD/RAD/DADs to the new standard was jointly undertaken by French specialists based in Paris , and at the Istres Flight Test Centre and by UAE Air Force & Air Defence (AF & AD) staff at Al Dhafra. The first two of these aircraft were upgraded in Istres , France , between 2001 and 2003, with the remaining 28 undergoing upgrade at Al Dhafra. The conversion consisted of a major overhaul and the avionics/equipment retrofit, undertaken simultaneously. The programme ran until 2007.


The Mirage 2000-9 programme provided the UAE AF & AD with invaluable experience and allowed the UAE to establish in-country software development, weapon integration, test and evaluation capabilities.


If the country’s planned Rafale purchase goes ahead, the UAE’s surplus fleet of Mirage 2000-9s would represent an extremely potent fighter for any buyer, far more modern and far more capable than the simple Mirage 2000 name might suggest, and quite probably available at a bargain price.

1638990293400.png



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nov 30, 2017

At the 2017 Dubai Air Show, the United Arab Emirates (UAE) announced that it would upgrade 42 Dassault Mirage 2000-9 and 79 Lockheed Martin F-16E/F Block-60 fighter aircraft.

Specific technical details of either upgrade were not provided at the time, but Forecast International (via Defense-Aerospace) recently reported that the UAE Air Force’s (UAEAF) Mirage 2000-9s will be configured with the Thales RDY-3 radar and TALIOS targeting pod.

In addition, Thales will execute a wide-ranging upgrade of the fighter’s onboard electronics, with planned changes to the “mission computers; fire control radars; electronic warfare suites; optronics systems; communications, navigation, and identification systems; cockpit displays; and helmet-mounted displays.”

Notes & Comments:
With the inclusion of the Thales RDY-3, the UAEAF Mirage 2000-9 upgrade appears to mirror the Mirage 2000 upgrade executed for the Indian Air Force (IAF) since 2011.

Although the RDY-3 is not an active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar (which is found on the UAE’s F-16E/F Block-60), it is a mature mechanically-steered solution with credible air-to-air and, especially, air-to-surface capabilities. In terms of the latter, the RDY-3 has high-resolution synthetic aperture radar (SAR) with ground-moving target-indication (GMTI) and terrain avoidance support.

This suits the UAEAF as the Mirage 2000-9 is its mainstay strike asset. The Mirage 2000-9 was configured to carry the MBDA SCALP-variant Black Shaheen air-launched cruise missile (ALCM) and Denel Dynamics-Tawazun Dynamics Tariq precision-guided stand-off weapon (SOW) range. The MBDA SCALP can provide a range of over 250 km, while the Tariq can be configured to engage targets from 40 to 100+ km.

The RDY-3 provides improved SAR/GMTI for building a situational awareness of the ground and tracking targets, allowing the UAEAF to more effectively deploy its ACLM and SOWs. The RDY-3’s terrain avoidance support (with contour mapping) would also enable low-altitude penetration flights, which could be used to bypass opposing high-level radar coverage. This will be potent with the UAE’s ALCM/SOW inventory.

The TALIOS will augment this further by providing the Mirage 2000-9 with the ability to guide laser-guided bombs to moving targets and provide intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance coverage. In lieu or in tandem with the RDY-3, the TALIOS could also be used for long-range target identification and tracking for the Mirage 2000-9’s ALCM and SOW load.
 

TsAr

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Old article but will give you a good idea of what it was all about.

One careful owner – why Mirage sale might be no illusion

29 April 2010
View attachment 18625

As the UAE stands on the brink of ordering new Rafale strike fighters to equip its rapidly modernising air force, it has been reported that one of the nation's requirements is that Dassault should buy back, or find a buyer for, its fleet of multi-role Mirage 2000-9 fighters.


But the Mirage 2000-9 is far from being obsolete or past its prime and it has been estimated that $3.4 billion of the $9.9 billion spent by the UAE has been used on the Mirage 2000-9 series (with $6.5 billion spent on the Block 60 F-16). The UAE, therefore, naturally expects to realise a good price for these versatile, modern and highly capable strike fighters.


Though the UAE’s first batch of 36 Mirage 2000s were purchased in 1986, 30 survivors have been extensively refurbished and then upgraded – bringing them to the same standard as the 32 new Mirage 2000-9s ordered in 1998 under the Bader 21 purchase agreement and delivered from 2003. As such, all surviving UAE Air Force and Air Defence Mirage 2000s now share the same 21st Century 2000-9 configuration and, thus, represent the top of the Mirage 2000 evolutionary tree.


The Mirage 2000-9 incorporates state-of-the-art technologies and advanced capabilities that the basic Mirage 2000 lacks, many of which were incorporated as a direct result of experience gained by Dassault during the development of the Rafale, and which may be viewed as ‘Rafale technology’, with similar modular avionics, an LCD glass cockpit with full night vision goggles compatibility, and advanced sensors and systems.


At the core of the Mirage 2000-9’s navigation and attack system is a Thales-and Dassault Aviation-developed modular data processing unit (MDPU) that is similar to that used by the Rafale. This serves as the mission computer, manages the navigation and attack system, controls the cockpit display system and generates symbology for the head-up display (HUD) and head-down displays (HDDs). As a result, the Mirage 2000-9 is claimed to enjoy a world-beating, highly intuitive man-machine interface.


Though the Mirage 2000-9 is externally very similar to the original Mirage 2000C fighter, it actually represents the culmination of several stages of technical advance. The Mirage 2000-5 was developed as a private venture multi-role update of the fighter Mirage 2000 with a new Thales RDY multimode radar, a wide-angle HUD, hands-on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls, and with provision for a Thales TV/CT CLDP laser designator pod.


A two-seat Mirage 2000B was extensively upgraded and modified to serve as the first Mirage 2000-5 prototype, making its maiden flight on October 24 1990. Thirty-seven existing Armée de l’Air Mirage 2000s were upgraded to 2000-5F standards, becoming operational in 2000.


The aircraft was further upgraded for export customers as the Mirage 2000-5 Mark 2. This added RDY-2 radar with enhanced air-to-ground capabilities. The Mk 2 also gained a new Thales Totem 3000 ring laser gyro IN/GPS, an ICMS 2 countermeasures suite and a Samir DDM missile warning system, higher resolution colour cockpit displays, and provision for a Topsight helmet-mounted display.


Compared to the Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2, the UAE’s -9 variant incorporates what Dassault coyly refers to as “additional operating capabilities specified by the UAE AF & AD”, and which include enhanced survivability and much-improved long-range stand-off air-to-ground capabilities.


With the USA unwilling to facilitate the integration of certain local weapons on aircraft that it supplies to the UAE, to avoid upsetting certain regional sensitivities, it has been the Mirage 2000 that has acted as the delivery platform for the UAE’s Black Shaheen cruise missile (a derivative of the MBDA Apache/SCALP/Storm Shadow) and the MBDA Al Hakim family of rocket-boosted LGBs. The original UAE Mirage 2000EAD was equipped with a ‘day-only’ ATLIS II laser targeting pod, but the Mirage 2000-9 was provided with a new Shehab laser designation pod – with a Nahar navigation FLIR in the dedicated pylon used to attach the Shehab pod to the aircraft.


The Mirage 2000-9 has a unique new IMEWS electronic warfare and countermeasures system. IMEWS was designed and developed by Thales, Elettronica and MBDA to UAE Air Force and Air Defence requirements.


The aircraft also has a new Thales communication, navigation, identification (CNI) suite, with a frequency-agile Thomrad V/UHF secure voice radio system, and an LU2 tactical datalink.


The Mirage 2000-9 is powered by the latest version of the SNECMA M53-P2 turbofan, incorporating FADEC and a sophisticated autothrottle (which provides automatic control of engine speed to maintain whatever speed is selected by the pilot).


Development of the Mirage 2000-9 was spread over five years and was divided into two distinct weapon delivery and navigation system standards, known as SAD91 and SAD92. Deliveries of 32 new-build aircraft to SAD91 standards began at the end of April 2003 and continued until early 2004.


Retrofitting of the UAE’s surviving 30 Mirage 2000EAD/RAD/DADs to the new standard was jointly undertaken by French specialists based in Paris , and at the Istres Flight Test Centre and by UAE Air Force & Air Defence (AF & AD) staff at Al Dhafra. The first two of these aircraft were upgraded in Istres , France , between 2001 and 2003, with the remaining 28 undergoing upgrade at Al Dhafra. The conversion consisted of a major overhaul and the avionics/equipment retrofit, undertaken simultaneously. The programme ran until 2007.


The Mirage 2000-9 programme provided the UAE AF & AD with invaluable experience and allowed the UAE to establish in-country software development, weapon integration, test and evaluation capabilities.


If the country’s planned Rafale purchase goes ahead, the UAE’s surplus fleet of Mirage 2000-9s would represent an extremely potent fighter for any buyer, far more modern and far more capable than the simple Mirage 2000 name might suggest, and quite probably available at a bargain price.

View attachment 18626


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nov 30, 2017

At the 2017 Dubai Air Show, the United Arab Emirates (UAE) announced that it would upgrade 42 Dassault Mirage 2000-9 and 79 Lockheed Martin F-16E/F Block-60 fighter aircraft.

Specific technical details of either upgrade were not provided at the time, but Forecast International (via Defense-Aerospace) recently reported that the UAE Air Force’s (UAEAF) Mirage 2000-9s will be configured with the Thales RDY-3 radar and TALIOS targeting pod.

In addition, Thales will execute a wide-ranging upgrade of the fighter’s onboard electronics, with planned changes to the “mission computers; fire control radars; electronic warfare suites; optronics systems; communications, navigation, and identification systems; cockpit displays; and helmet-mounted displays.”

Notes & Comments:
With the inclusion of the Thales RDY-3, the UAEAF Mirage 2000-9 upgrade appears to mirror the Mirage 2000 upgrade executed for the Indian Air Force (IAF) since 2011.

Although the RDY-3 is not an active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar (which is found on the UAE’s F-16E/F Block-60), it is a mature mechanically-steered solution with credible air-to-air and, especially, air-to-surface capabilities. In terms of the latter, the RDY-3 has high-resolution synthetic aperture radar (SAR) with ground-moving target-indication (GMTI) and terrain avoidance support.

This suits the UAEAF as the Mirage 2000-9 is its mainstay strike asset. The Mirage 2000-9 was configured to carry the MBDA SCALP-variant Black Shaheen air-launched cruise missile (ALCM) and Denel Dynamics-Tawazun Dynamics Tariq precision-guided stand-off weapon (SOW) range. The MBDA SCALP can provide a range of over 250 km, while the Tariq can be configured to engage targets from 40 to 100+ km.

The RDY-3 provides improved SAR/GMTI for building a situational awareness of the ground and tracking targets, allowing the UAEAF to more effectively deploy its ACLM and SOWs. The RDY-3’s terrain avoidance support (with contour mapping) would also enable low-altitude penetration flights, which could be used to bypass opposing high-level radar coverage. This will be potent with the UAE’s ALCM/SOW inventory.

The TALIOS will augment this further by providing the Mirage 2000-9 with the ability to guide laser-guided bombs to moving targets and provide intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance coverage. In lieu or in tandem with the RDY-3, the TALIOS could also be used for long-range target identification and tracking for the Mirage 2000-9’s ALCM and SOW load.
I highly doubt UAE would be looking to sell these mirages in near future.
 
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