US official: If Turkey buys Russian systems, they can’t plug into NATO tech | World Defense

US official: If Turkey buys Russian systems, they can’t plug into NATO tech

Khafee

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US official: If Turkey buys Russian systems, they can’t plug into NATO tech
By: Valerie Insinna
17.11.2017


s400.jpg

A picture shows two Russian S-400 Triumf S-400 Triumf missile system at the Russian Hmeimim military base in Latakia province, in the northwest of Syria, on December 16, 2015. Russia began its air war in Syria on September 30, conducting air strikes against a range of anti-regime armed groups including US-backed rebels and jihadist groups. Moscow has said it is fighting and other "terrorist groups," but its campaign has come under fire by Western officials who accuse the Kremlin of seeking to prop up Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. / AFP / Paul GYPTEAU (Photo credit should read PAUL GYPTEAU/AFP/Getty Images)


DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — If Turkey moves forward with its buy of a Russian air defense system, it will not be permitted to plug into NATO technology, and further action may be forthcoming that could affect the country’s acquisition or operation of the F-35, a top Air Force official said Wednesday.

Turkey has reportedly finalized a deal with Russia for the S-400, an advanced anti-aircraft missile system. According to a Nov. 12 Reuters report, Turkish Defense Minister Nurettin Canikli claimed that it had made an order for the missiles and further terms of the agreement were “just details now.”

If true, the development could have a drastic effect on Turkey’s military cooperation with the rest of NATO, which fears that Turkey is moving away from democratic norms and is fostering a closer relationship with powers such as Russia and China.

Heidi Grant, deputy undersecretary of the Air Force for international affairs, was unable to say exactly what course of action the United States would pursue if Turkey purchases the S-400.

“As a major NATO ally, we haven’t really looked into this yet,” she said in a Nov. 15 interview. “We’re going to have to start looking at, if they are going to go through with this, how we can be interoperable in the future. But right now, I can tell you our policies do not allow us to be interoperable with that system.”

Further complicating the issue is the planned delivery of Turkey’s first F-35s in 2018. Analysts worry that Turkey operating both the S-400 and F-35 together could compromise the jet’s security, as any data collected by the air defense system and obtained by Russia could help expose the joint strike fighter’s vulnerabilities. For a platform like the F-35, whose major strengths are its stealth and data fusion capabilities, that would be a disaster.
Grant agreed that a S-400 acquisition creates issues for Turkey’s use of the F-35.

“It’s a significant concern, not only to the United States, because we need to protect this high end technology, fifth-generation technology” but for “all of our partners and allies that have already purchased the F-35,” she said.

As far as potential actions the United States might take, Grant said the government will have to work through its options.

Grant spoke to Defense News on the floor of Dubai Air Show, where she met with companies and partner countries over the past four days. During this time, she did not have conversations with the Turkish delegation, she acknowledged.

Her comments echoed those of Gen. Petr Pavel, chairman of NATO’s military committee. In October, Pavel said that Turkey is free, as a sovereign nation, to make its own decisions in regards to military procurement, but will face “consequences” if a S-400 buy goes through.

What happens next?
Neither Grant nor Pavel have been willing to detail how the United States and NATO could respond to Turkey’s S-400 procurement, especially with regards to Turkey’s role in the F-35 program, and there’s no clear historical precedent.

Whenever the United States makes an agreement to export weapons to a foreign partner, that country is required to sign an agreement allowing the U.S. to do end-use monitoring to ensure it is not compromising sensitive technologies or information. That can include anything from a “check on how they are using the technology, who is on the same base with them [and] access that other countries may have to our high end technology,” noted Grant.

But the F-35 is not a typical program, being conceived of from the get-go as a partnership among countries that would pay to develop the jet, as well as reap the industrial benefits of building it.

Turkey is entrenched in the program on multiple levels — from the money it has spent to help design it, the more than 100 planes it plans to buy, to Turkish Aerospace Industries’ work on the center fuselage of every F-35, and the country’s role as a sustainment hub for the international joint strike fighter community. It’s not exactly clear what would happen if the United States rolls back its participation in the program.

Turkey’s industrial contributions to the F-35 are “easily replicable elsewhere” should the U.S. government decide to drop Turkey as an international partner on the program, Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace analyst for the Teal Group, told Defense News in an interview ahead of Dubai Airshow.

“The real greater concern is just pushing a large emerging military and economic power out of NATO and into something different and not at all in Western interests,” he said. “It’s a very big deal. It’s so big that I don’t think anyone knows quite what to do with it.”

Individual members of Congress have raised concerns about the Turkish government’s recent shift from NATO, but so far have not sounded alarm bells about an S-400 acquisition. In the past, lawmakers have had difficulty implementing restrictions on the country’s acquisition of the F-35.

For instance, Rep. David Cicilline, a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee, tried to block sales of the F-35 to Turkey in July after Turkish security personnel attacked protesters in Washington earlier in 2017. However, the amendment ultimately died without ever getting a vote.

A growing problem
How the U.S. and NATO respond to Turkey could set precedent for how much interoperability with Russian the United States is willing to accept from partner militaries in the Middle East and elsewhere.

Saudi Arabia plans to purchase the S-400 alongside the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system built by Lockheed Martin. During a briefing at Dubai Airshow, Timothy Cahill, Lockheed’s vice president of air and missile defense systems, said that will create challenges for simultaneous use of both systems.

Meanwhile, the United Arab Emirates is interested in buying the F-35, but has also signed a memorandum of understanding with Russia for collaborating on a fifth-generation fighter based on the MiG-29. That, too, could create roadblocks for a future joint strike fighter acquisition.

“They are a sovereign nation, they can choose to go with other partners,” Grant said of the UAE’s work with Russian on a fifth-gen fighter. “But I have made it very clear that it makes it a little more difficult for our partnership as a coalition because we will not be interoperable. As of right now, our current policies are, we would not be interoperable with Russian equipment.”

https://www.defensenews.com/digital...ussian-systems-they-cant-plug-into-nato-tech/
 

Scorpion

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It is undoubtedly going to be very challenging for Turkey to synchronize easter and wester systems. The US will not allow Turkey to access encryption software nor the Russians are going to allow their most sophisticated system to be in the hand of the Americans. It is going to be challenging for us as well after the S-400 deal to tweak around they systems in hope of trying to establish compatible ground. Will the IFF be able to have both systems integrated? @T-123456
 

T-123456

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It is undoubtedly going to be very challenging for Turkey to synchronize easter and wester systems. The US will not allow Turkey to access encryption software nor the Russians are going to allow their most sophisticated system to be in the hand of the Americans. It is going to be challenging for us as well after the S-400 deal to tweak around they systems in hope of trying to establish compatible ground. Will the IFF be able to have both systems integrated? @T-123456
I believe both can work simultaneously as stand alone systems,how difficult would it be?
 

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@Tps77 Your input on this thread would be appreciated.
 

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That is one major debatable topic. If you have the codes, the IFF can be configured accordingly.

Im keen to know how will the S-400 handle the F-35.∫øø§
 

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@Tps77 Your input on this thread would be appreciated.
First Of all can somebody tell me how S 300 in Greece are working while greece is also part of nato and using Nato equipment ?
Its all hypocrisy by american's If turkey gets its wrong and if greece gets they keep mum?

@Topic I dont see any major issues turkey will face operationally I can give u Pakistan's example ; Pakistan is operating F 16 blk52 and there is an unannounced agreement between each other that no Chinese sys will be stationed there for 10 years at shahbaz ab of which 2 years are remaining so turkey can work with american's and russian's on that pattern.
Pakistan is still having Mobile observing units which is because if ever there any lapses by radar those people observing can report to air defence command. As u all many of u know that Pakistan is using both eastern and westren systems, Pakistan have managed really well in this regard question rises how ? Answer is simple A fare distribution of assets .

There are 11 SAM sqn In Paf several of them also having diff flights in diff cities out of them 5 are cortales and 6 remaining are spada all these sqn's are also equipped with MANPADS (MISTRAL) 1 crotale/spada battery = 4 mistral batteries with not more 5 min to 3 hours standby time for all the systems and many of them are performing round the clock duties. And these sqn's are placed according to assets at VA's/VP's like Spada are based at shahbaz ab and crotales are at peshawar. U can see that peshawar ab have Jf 17's and shahbaz ab have F 16 blk52 .

And Important thing regarding S 400 is they need codes for IFF other wise they can shoot down a friendly asset.
 

Scorpion

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I believe both can work simultaneously as stand alone systems,how difficult would it be?
The S-400 will shot down any flying object unless it is preivoulsy idenfited by the IFF system. Every aircraft has an identification code that must be inserted into other systems to be identified friendly. If you have the codes you are good go I guess.
 

UAE

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The S-400 will shot down any flying object unless it is preivoulsy idenfited by the IFF system. Every aircraft has an identification code that must be inserted into other systems to be identified friendly. If you have the codes you are good go I guess.
There is another way to use the system without worrying about the IFF but that requires an early warning radar AWACS. It is an old school but it does work.
 

EgyptianAmerican

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It is undoubtedly going to be very challenging for Turkey to synchronize easter and wester systems.
I doubt Turkey is going to attempt to synchronize both systems if Turkey is purchasing systems from both Russia and the U.S than what are they getting these systems for other than improving and building their own designs? Russia clearly likes them enough to sell them the S-400 and the U.S clearly trusts them enough to allow them to participate in the F-35 program.

I think they are trying to improve their own systems using these. The S-400 has yet to have been proven as capable of shooting down the F-35 but with both the orders of the F-35 and the S-400 they could possibly test these claims and find ways to improve their own indigenous systems with both the TAI-TFX and with possibly their own long-range air defense systems. We know after all that Turkish officials really want to share tech with Russia and that they want to work on producing indigenous systems.

"Knowing that the Russian system was not compatible with the one used by NATO, Turkish officials stressed the importance of a technology-sharing principle with Russia."
-http://www.aljazeera.com/blogs/midd...oost-air-missile-defence-170613161920586.html

We also know that Turkey has been investing heavily indigenous military projects like Altay and MPT-76.

Turkey’s Arms Industry Expands at Home and Abroad
-http://warisboring.com/turkeys-arms-industry-expands-at-home-and-abroad/

It wouldn't be that far-fetched, though admittedly it would be pretty hard to hide that type of testing under the United States's nose but who knows? Erdogan doesn't seem like the type to be put off by some NATO officials.
 

UAE

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It is quite interesting to see Russia handing its most sophisticated system to a NATO member knowing that it might fall into the wrong hands anytime. Will the US be able to closely inspect the S-400 through Turkey? I really doubt it.
 

Scorpion

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I doubt Turkey is going to attempt to synchronize both systems if Turkey is purchasing systems from both Russia and the U.S than what are they getting these systems for other than improving and building their own designs? Russia clearly likes them enough to sell them the S-400 and the U.S clearly trusts them enough to allow them to participate in the F-35 program.

I think they are trying to improve their own systems using these. The S-400 has yet to have been proven as capable of shooting down the F-35 but with both the orders of the F-35 and the S-400 they could possibly test these claims and find ways to improve their own indigenous systems with both the TAI-TFX and with possibly their own long-range air defense systems. We know after all that Turkish officials really want to share tech with Russia and that they want to work on producing indigenous systems.

"Knowing that the Russian system was not compatible with the one used by NATO, Turkish officials stressed the importance of a technology-sharing principle with Russia."
-http://www.aljazeera.com/blogs/midd...oost-air-missile-defence-170613161920586.html

We also know that Turkey has been investing heavily indigenous military projects like Altay and MPT-76.

Turkey’s Arms Industry Expands at Home and Abroad
-http://warisboring.com/turkeys-arms-industry-expands-at-home-and-abroad/

It wouldn't be that far-fetched, though admittedly it would be pretty hard to hide that type of testing under the United States's nose but who knows? Erdogan doesn't seem like the type to be put off by some NATO officials.
Russia will need to provide the system code to Turkey otherwise anything flying within the range will be targeted. Turkey doesn't need to test the Russia s-400 that it is going to receive, just hover over Syria and you will be able to test its effectiveness.\_/)
 

Haman10

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US is just spewing nonsense and this actually shows how effective S-400 actually is. all countries with a little bit of dignity in the region (id est Iran,Turkey and Iraq) should seek these systems if Russia is keen in providing them.

Can't plug into nato tech? oh pls! if a country like saudi arabia thinks they can manage this impossible feat!, be sure as hell Turkey can manage more, lol.
 

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US is just spewing nonsense and this actually shows how effective S-400 actually is. all countries with a little bit of dignity in the region (id est Iran,Turkey and Iraq) should seek these systems if Russia is keen in providing them.

Can't plug into nato tech? oh pls! if a country like saudi arabia thinks they can manage this impossible feat!, be sure as hell Turkey can manage more, lol.
What nonsense? Its true that you either have the codes or you won't be able to hook up the system period. Iran is a dignified country lol yeah. The most backward country in the region. Russia will not provide this system to Iran. The Saudi blocked the deal and you were given an old dusty one so keep dreaming. This talk is beyond your knowledge I suggest you leave it.
 
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