When a person you hate ...... makes you respect him ........

Joe Shearer

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Stunning.

I have to swallow bitter medicine, and admit that he has said something valuable and relevant.

Hate having to say this.
 

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Stunning.

I have to swallow bitter medicine, and admit that he has said something valuable and relevant.

Hate having to say this.

He is a fine politician, I have to admit that .......... I think he is now victim of his own vote bank politics. The classic case of mobilising the mob and then failing to control it, and surrendering to its wishes?
 

Joe Shearer

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He is a fine politician, I have to admit that .......... I think he is now victim of his own vote bank politics. The classic case of mobilising the mob and then failing to control it, and surrendering to its wishes?
That would be if he WANTED to control them.

To me, he's a hater; he's one of those who can't exist unless someone, somewhere has to have his (or her) face pushed in.

It's curious; the fanatics on both sides never wanted independence in this form.

The Muslim conservatives, the Deobandis, led by Maulana Azad, were One World Theory people to a man; they wanted one India, Maulana Maudoodi and the others thought it would give them a wider field for conversion. They were looking for the whole enchilada. They were clear that they wanted independence; they couldn't really preach to the unconverted kafir as long as the British kept hovering around, interfering. That is why they hated Jinnah, the Muslim League and the professional Muslim - the doctor, the lawyer, the policeman, the civil servant, the engineer - the salariat. They called Jinnah Kaffir-e-Azam, they called Pakistan Palitistan. It was only in 48 that Maudoodi slipped across to Pakistan, where he lost no time getting the Ahmadis into trouble, and being convicted to be hanged, and subsequently pardoned.

It was different on the other side of the spectrum; the Hindu conservatives were indifferent to the independence movement itself, forget about defining how people would live after independence. They just nursed their stored up bitterness and anger against the Muslim, almost a mythical construct, not real people who were born, and grew up, schooled, worked, married, raised families and died. Everything was seen through the same lens: why are we giving the Muslims so much? Whatever it was. The provocation that brought it all bubbling out was the momentary pique of Nehru and Patel, who stopped paying the Government of Pakistan the money owed to them from the Treasury on the division of the Treasury. Gandhi was appalled, and went on fast, both Nehru and Patel caved in to their political father, and the money was transferred. That was it. The fury of the arch-Hindus burst out; now this sick old pervert was giving away their money to the Muslims. That is when Godse and his gang decided to kill Gandhi.

The point is that is where Modi comes from: this hatred of the Muslim that essentially drives their lives. Unlike the rest of us, he doesn't make any decisions about the individual Muslim man or woman whom we encounter; each is the same as the other, in their minds. That is combined, in Modi, with an intolerance of others; everybody else must surrender their personalities, their reasoning, their judgement to him.
 

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I don't want to sound like a skeptic. (Plus I don't understand what he said). If he does what he said, the literacy rate, or poverty among Muslim will not be this bad. Anyway, the Muslims in India should be given a better education. We have lowest literacy rate among communities at 58%.

The point is that is where Modi comes from: this hatred of the Muslim that essentially drives their lives. Unlike the rest of us, he doesn't make any decisions about the individual Muslim man or woman whom we encounter; each is the same as the other, in their minds. That is combined, in Modi, with an intolerance of others; everybody else must surrender their personalities, their reasoning, their judgment to him.
Unlike yogi, I'm yet to see much fiery post against Muslims from Modi. Which most of the people are ignoring how venomous his words are. And he is friggin CM of UP

Apart from the Gujrat riot and his political ideology, I don't see much reason to be angry at Modi. Maybe because I don't know Gujrat riots clearly. I was too young at the time.
 

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Friends need to watch this two part documentary, to really understand the game Modi is playing.

This documentary aired by NHK Japan, was made by Deepa Dhanraj.

A Ph.D. student at one of the most prestigious universities in India committed suicide against the persecution of religion and class system discrimination. The historic student movement was led across the country.
We Have Not Come Here to Die: PART 1
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/vod/lens/3004470/
We Have Not Come Here to Die: PART 2
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/vod/lens/3004472/
 

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Friends need to watch this two part documentary, to really understand the game Modi is playing.

This documentary aired by NHK Japan, was made by Deepa Dhanraj.

A Ph.D. student at one of the most prestigious universities in India committed suicide against the persecution of religion and class system discrimination. The historic student movement was led across the country.
We Have Not Come Here to Die: PART 1
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/vod/lens/3004470/
We Have Not Come Here to Die: PART 2
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/vod/lens/3004472/
Sir, how is Rohit Vemula incident directly connected to Modi?

Anyway, I should post his last letter, very powerful words.

Good morning,

I would not be around when you read this letter. Don’t get angry on me. I know some of you truly cared for me, loved me and treated me very well. I have no complaints on anyone. It was always with myself I had problems. I feel a growing gap between my soul and my body. And I have become a monster. I always wanted to be a writer. A writer of science, like Carl Sagan. At last, this is the only letter I am getting to write.

I always wanted to be a writer. A writer of science, like Carl Sagan.

I loved Science, Stars, Nature, but then I loved people without knowing that people have long since divorced from nature. Our feelings are second handed. Our love is constructed. Our beliefs colored. Our originality valid through artificial art. It has become truly difficult to love without getting hurt.

The value of a man was reduced to his immediate identity and nearest possibility. To a vote. To a number. To a thing. Never was a man treated as a mind. As a glorious thing made up of star dust. In every field, in studies, in streets, in politics, and in dying and living.

I am writing this kind of letter for the first time. My first time of a final letter. Forgive me if I fail to make sense.

My birth is my fatal accident. I can never recover from my childhood loneliness. The unappreciated child from my past.

May be I was wrong, all the while, in understanding world. In understanding love, pain, life, death. There was no urgency. But I always was rushing. Desperate to start a life. All the while, some people, for them, life itself is curse. My birth is my fatal accident. I can never recover from my childhood loneliness. The unappreciated child from my past.

I am not hurt at this moment. I am not sad. I am just empty. Unconcerned about myself. That’s pathetic. And that’s why I am doing this.

People may dub me as a coward. And selfish, or stupid once I am gone. I am not bothered about what I am called. I don’t believe in after-death stories, ghosts, or spirits. If there is anything at all I believe, I believe that I can travel to the stars. And know about the other worlds.

If you, who is reading this letter can do anything for me, I have to get 7 months of my fellowship, one lakh and seventy five thousand rupees. Please see to it that my family is paid that. I have to give some 40 thousand to Ramji. He never asked them back. But please pay that to him from that.

Let my funeral be silent and smooth. Behave like I just appeared and gone. Do not shed tears for me. Know that I am happy dead than being alive.

“From shadows to the stars.”

Uma anna, sorry for using your room for this thing.

To ASA family, sorry for disappointing all of you. You loved me very much. I wish all the very best for the future.

For one last time,

Jai Bheem

I forgot to write the formalities. No one is responsible for my this act of killing myself.

No one has instigated me, whether by their acts or by their words to this act.

This is my decision and I am the only one responsible for this.

Do not trouble my friends and enemies on this after I am gone.
 

Indus Falcon

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Sir, how is Rohit Vemula incident directly connected to Modi?

Anyway, I should post his last letter, very powerful words.

Good morning,

I would not be around when you read this letter. Don’t get angry on me. I know some of you truly cared for me, loved me and treated me very well. I have no complaints on anyone. It was always with myself I had problems. I feel a growing gap between my soul and my body. And I have become a monster. I always wanted to be a writer. A writer of science, like Carl Sagan. At last, this is the only letter I am getting to write.

I always wanted to be a writer. A writer of science, like Carl Sagan.

I loved Science, Stars, Nature, but then I loved people without knowing that people have long since divorced from nature. Our feelings are second handed. Our love is constructed. Our beliefs colored. Our originality valid through artificial art. It has become truly difficult to love without getting hurt.

The value of a man was reduced to his immediate identity and nearest possibility. To a vote. To a number. To a thing. Never was a man treated as a mind. As a glorious thing made up of star dust. In every field, in studies, in streets, in politics, and in dying and living.

I am writing this kind of letter for the first time. My first time of a final letter. Forgive me if I fail to make sense.

My birth is my fatal accident. I can never recover from my childhood loneliness. The unappreciated child from my past.

May be I was wrong, all the while, in understanding world. In understanding love, pain, life, death. There was no urgency. But I always was rushing. Desperate to start a life. All the while, some people, for them, life itself is curse. My birth is my fatal accident. I can never recover from my childhood loneliness. The unappreciated child from my past.

I am not hurt at this moment. I am not sad. I am just empty. Unconcerned about myself. That’s pathetic. And that’s why I am doing this.

People may dub me as a coward. And selfish, or stupid once I am gone. I am not bothered about what I am called. I don’t believe in after-death stories, ghosts, or spirits. If there is anything at all I believe, I believe that I can travel to the stars. And know about the other worlds.

If you, who is reading this letter can do anything for me, I have to get 7 months of my fellowship, one lakh and seventy five thousand rupees. Please see to it that my family is paid that. I have to give some 40 thousand to Ramji. He never asked them back. But please pay that to him from that.

Let my funeral be silent and smooth. Behave like I just appeared and gone. Do not shed tears for me. Know that I am happy dead than being alive.

“From shadows to the stars.”

Uma anna, sorry for using your room for this thing.

To ASA family, sorry for disappointing all of you. You loved me very much. I wish all the very best for the future.

For one last time,

Jai Bheem

I forgot to write the formalities. No one is responsible for my this act of killing myself.

No one has instigated me, whether by their acts or by their words to this act.

This is my decision and I am the only one responsible for this.

Do not trouble my friends and enemies on this after I am gone.
Please do watch the documentary, it will explain how people are being abused, forget Muslims, but even Dalits.

Thanks!
 

Joe Shearer

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Sir, how is Rohit Vemula incident directly connected to Modi?

Anyway, I should post his last letter, very powerful words.

Good morning,

I would not be around when you read this letter. Don’t get angry on me. I know some of you truly cared for me, loved me and treated me very well. I have no complaints on anyone. It was always with myself I had problems. I feel a growing gap between my soul and my body. And I have become a monster. I always wanted to be a writer. A writer of science, like Carl Sagan. At last, this is the only letter I am getting to write.

I always wanted to be a writer. A writer of science, like Carl Sagan.

I loved Science, Stars, Nature, but then I loved people without knowing that people have long since divorced from nature. Our feelings are second handed. Our love is constructed. Our beliefs colored. Our originality valid through artificial art. It has become truly difficult to love without getting hurt.

The value of a man was reduced to his immediate identity and nearest possibility. To a vote. To a number. To a thing. Never was a man treated as a mind. As a glorious thing made up of star dust. In every field, in studies, in streets, in politics, and in dying and living.

I am writing this kind of letter for the first time. My first time of a final letter. Forgive me if I fail to make sense.

My birth is my fatal accident. I can never recover from my childhood loneliness. The unappreciated child from my past.

May be I was wrong, all the while, in understanding world. In understanding love, pain, life, death. There was no urgency. But I always was rushing. Desperate to start a life. All the while, some people, for them, life itself is curse. My birth is my fatal accident. I can never recover from my childhood loneliness. The unappreciated child from my past.

I am not hurt at this moment. I am not sad. I am just empty. Unconcerned about myself. That’s pathetic. And that’s why I am doing this.

People may dub me as a coward. And selfish, or stupid once I am gone. I am not bothered about what I am called. I don’t believe in after-death stories, ghosts, or spirits. If there is anything at all I believe, I believe that I can travel to the stars. And know about the other worlds.

If you, who is reading this letter can do anything for me, I have to get 7 months of my fellowship, one lakh and seventy five thousand rupees. Please see to it that my family is paid that. I have to give some 40 thousand to Ramji. He never asked them back. But please pay that to him from that.

Let my funeral be silent and smooth. Behave like I just appeared and gone. Do not shed tears for me. Know that I am happy dead than being alive.

“From shadows to the stars.”

Uma anna, sorry for using your room for this thing.

To ASA family, sorry for disappointing all of you. You loved me very much. I wish all the very best for the future.

For one last time,

Jai Bheem

I forgot to write the formalities. No one is responsible for my this act of killing myself.

No one has instigated me, whether by their acts or by their words to this act.

This is my decision and I am the only one responsible for this.

Do not trouble my friends and enemies on this after I am gone.
It isn't about Modi. It's about the broader social disease that he represents.
 

Joe Shearer

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I watched the documentary the same day posted. :)
Thanks.
You see, champ, it isn't about their hating Muslims. It isn't about their hating Christians. It is about their hating anyone who says and does things that reminds them that they were dominated for centuries, or at least, the group that they naively think of as 'us' was dominated for centuries. Chances are that for the majority of these people, they never had anything to do with a dominator. We have to remember that there has been a huge tidal wave from the villages to the cities and large towns and even small towns. If we had approximately 66 million in 330 million in the cities in 1947, about 20%, we have about 480 million out of 1200 million today (about 40%), and that means that over 400 million have come into the towns over the period. It is wildly improbable that villagers were directly affected by whatever discrimination or other unequal thing was happening in the country.

We have to start by accepting that this permanent rage that the saffron crowd suffer from is an artificial thing, born out of a sense of inferiority, a meaningless attempt at striking back at an oppression that never affected them.

So it's got nothing to do with facts, it's got something to do with Modi's personality but not entirely due to that, it has everything to do with a created situation. Those situations always grind down the 'them', that's you and me. One of the paradoxes of this situation is that moderate or liberal Hindus are considered traitors, almost just as much as Muslims and Christians are 'natural', as in born to be that, traitors. Dalits, or tribals, or hillmen who insist on their identity, as being as much Dalit or tribal or hillmen as they are Hindus, are also traitors, not the born kind, but the dangerous 'turncoat' kind; that will explain the ghar wapasi business, these are natural components of the Hindu mass, the overwhelming majority is not an overwhelming majority without them, so they must not be allowed to talk back, or to hint that they aren't loyal Hindus, doing whatever the natural leaders tell them to do.

Do you think selecting Kovind as the President of India was accidental?
 

SOUTHie

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Dalits, or tribals, or hillmen who insist on their identity, as being as much Dalit or tribal or hillmen as they are Hindus, are also traitors, not the born kind, but the dangerous 'turncoat' kind; that will explain the ghar wapasi business, these are natural components of the Hindu mass, the overwhelming majority is not an overwhelming majority without them, so they must not be allowed to talk back, or to hint that they aren't loyal Hindus, doing whatever the natural leaders tell them to do.

Do you think selecting Kovind as the President of India was accidental?
I think you missed few points. I have read Savarkar (I assume he is one of the founding fathers, forgive my ignorance if not) wrote a book which clearly states Buddhist, and Jains are traitors. Which mentions Buddhist as the ones who destroyed India during Ashoka times by demilitarizing the country. Following non - violence and Jains for trying to convert Hindu, take over temples.

And Amit Shah is a Jain I heard.

I can understand their contempt for other religions, but why the Dalits? I don't understand this issue on Dalits and RSS/Sanghparivar.
And yes, I understand why Ramnath Kovind was made President, for covering up their issues with Dalits. There are few Muslim ministers for the purpose too. Another one is Alphonse Kannanthanam who is in charge of the North East states. He is a nice guy (Former IAS officer, clean personality). But I don't think these dummies will do any good. Their real face pops up every now and then when BJP MLA's and MP's make public statements.
 

Joe Shearer

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I think you missed few points. I have read Savarkar (I assume he is one of the founding fathers, forgive my ignorance if not) wrote a book which clearly states Buddhist, and Jains are traitors. Which mentions Buddhist as the ones who destroyed India during Ashoka times by demilitarizing the country. Following non - violence and Jains for trying to convert Hindu, take over temples.

And Amit Shah is a Jain I heard.
I will keep this short because I am more than 3/4 asleep.//and I did fall asleep :-( 10:30)//

Well, yes, indeed, you are right, but the underlying reason was NOTHING to do with the security of any Indian state or political entity. It had everything to do with the wounded feelings of the exclusive franchisees of the Gods. In a note responding to @I.R.A 's thinking aloud about possible futures for the multi-cultural, multi-denominational place that is India, some of the shocks that the ruling orthodox social and religious leaders had faced.

Please see here.

https://world-defense.com/threads/pakistan-army-contingent-to-be-posted-in-saudi-arabia-on-training-and-advisory-mission.5246/page-3#post-36135

I can understand their contempt for other religions, but why the Dalits? I don't understand this issue on Dalits and RSS/Sanghparivar.
And yes, I understand why Ramnath Kovind was made President, for covering up their issues with Dalits. There are few Muslim ministers for the purpose too. Another one is Alphonse Kannanthanam who is in charge of the North East states. He is a nice guy (Former IAS officer, clean personality). But I don't think these dummies will do any good. Their real face pops up every now and then when BJP MLA's and MP's make public statements.
Look at it this way: the Dalits were the original dhimmis. Right; now that you've been conquered, feel free to live, but those of you who can have to contribute to supporting the warriors and the defence effort, that's both the fighting men and the ideologues. Be humble, don't imagine that you are the equal of the initiated, the twice-born, and you can do whatever you are doing. Since you can't pay money, pay in service instead; you and your family will till the fields, and tend the animals.

It was actually more oppressive. There were rules and restrictions imposed that were worse than anything that was prescribed for the unbeliever, or the conquered. Even accepting the master race's religion was not enough. But this is an illustration, not a parallel. Let us not take it too far. What was done out of the ordinary by extraordinarily zealous rulers and ruling classes to the dhimmis was merely the norm against the Dalit.

This is why a defiant Dalit, one who doesn't join in dutifully when bidden, who doesn't destroy the dwellings, the places of worship, the menfolk of the other, who doesn't rape their women and kill their children on command, is someone who has to be suppressed with the greatest severity. It's a mutiny; remember how the British reacted to their troops who mutinied?
 

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I will keep this short because I am more than 3/4 asleep.//and I did fall asleep :-( 10:30)//

Well, yes, indeed, you are right, but the underlying reason was NOTHING to do with the security of any Indian state or political entity. It had everything to do with the wounded feelings of the exclusive franchisees of the Gods. In a note responding to @I.R.A 's thinking aloud about possible futures for the multi-cultural, multi-denominational place that is India, some of the shocks that the ruling orthodox social and religious leaders had faced.

Please see here.

https://world-defense.com/threads/pakistan-army-contingent-to-be-posted-in-saudi-arabia-on-training-and-advisory-mission.5246/page-3#post-36135



Look at it this way: the Dalits were the original dhimmis. Right; now that you've been conquered, feel free to live, but those of you who can have to contribute to supporting the warriors and the defence effort, that's both the fighting men and the ideologues. Be humble, don't imagine that you are the equal of the initiated, the twice-born, and you can do whatever you are doing. Since you can't pay money, pay in service instead; you and your family will till the fields, and tend the animals.

It was actually more oppressive. There were rules and restrictions imposed that were worse than anything that was prescribed for the unbeliever, or the conquered. Even accepting the master race's religion was not enough. But this is an illustration, not a parallel. Let us not take it too far. What was done out of the ordinary by extraordinarily zealous rulers and ruling classes to the dhimmis was merely the norm against the Dalit.

This is why a defiant Dalit, one who doesn't join in dutifully when bidden, who doesn't destroy the dwellings, the places of worship, the menfolk of the other, who doesn't rape their women and kill their children on command, is someone who has to be suppressed with the greatest severity. It's a mutiny; remember how the British reacted to their troops who mutinied?
Thanks for a well-detailed reply. I got that. Not entirely but, for me, that looks like the jealousy of having a Dalit raising up in ranks and enjoying the same economic benefits as the forward castes. I know, Jealousy is a synonym.
 
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