Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[Wolf-PK]

another one ...more realistic and beautiful

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

There is no confirmation about J-10, its all a speculation. Khafee has not actually said J-10s are coming. We can hope but its not based on any concrete leak or insider information.

Edit: just read Khafee confirming J-10s may come, but he noted the process is slow and when is open to question - unlike the J-15. Would be interesting if both showed up - they share the same engine (more or less).

Effect - US will:

1. Attempt to "return the balance of power with favorable terms for India"
2. Build a long-term alliance with India, formally or informally
3. Pull the plug on any major relationship with Pakistan
4. Increase espionage and sabotage of CPEC

Wouldnt that have the opposite effect? They will lose Pakistan even more and push it deeper and deeper into the Chinese camp.

 

[Tunamelt]

27th is when the Indians get their Martian 35th generation, state of the art, space fighting, planet destroying, faster then speed of light. The one and only.....rafal!!!

SUPAA POWA PLANE

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

another one ...more realistic and beautiful
View attachment 14884

I like it, change the ordering though. It would look even better.

Largest to smallest.
J-15 ----> j-10 ----> jf-17

 

[Tunamelt]

astaghfar

yeh lo bhai deadly combo.....(my paint work)


View attachment 14883

 

[Tunamelt]

Hi Tunamelt, if Khafee says something he means it. And this isn't like F-16s where in the last minute a turncoat ally can stab you in the back. This is China. They have breeding and pedigree, not junglee hip shooters from the boon docks.

J-15s in Pakistan will create a counter reaction in India. Let's hope that reaction causes them to make a mistake.

I-AM NOT AWAREOF THE CAPABILATIES OF THE j-15'S SO I CANNOT MAKE A JUDGMENET OF MY OWN.

 

[Graphican]

There is no confirmation about J-10, its all a speculation. Khafee has not actually said J-10s are coming. We can hope but its not based on any concrete leak or insider information.

Edit: just read Khafee confirming J-10s may come, but he noted the process is slow and when is open to question - unlike the J-15. Would be interesting if both showed up - they share the same engine (more or less).

Effect - US will:

1. Attempt to "return the balance of power with favorable terms for India"
2. Build a long-term alliance with India, formally or informally
3. Pull the plug on any major relationship with Pakistan
4. Increase espionage and sabotage of CPEC

@Armchair

I see the situation the other way around. USA is compelled to keep influence over Pakistan and the only viable (and infect the last) option they have is to keep influence by developing a military dependency towards them.

In the past, USA has used the following ways to control Pakistan:

• By using terrorism and threat of instability through Afghanistan - this option worked but has outlived its life.
• By using political pressure through self-installed political stooges - which worked but has outlived its life.
• By using economic arm-twisting, which is ongoing in the form of FATF conditions - but this is temporary.
• By developing military dependency of Pakistan towards USA and making Pakistan need them in the long run (20+ years)

If USA misses this boat and doesn't sell military hardware, why would Pakistan look towards USA anymore? China is catching up on every aspect and is a more reliable, dependable partner for Pakistan. It is just a matter of time when Pakistan would not need USA as everything which USA offers to Pakistan now, will be matched and provided by China in not so distant future. So who's going to lose then?

Pakistan is a strategically located country, with nuclear arms considerable military power, is lying at the borders with China, Russia, India, Iran and Afghanistan and is capable to harm US interests in the middle east as well in South Asia. Can they imagine to alienate Pakistan? Also, they understand how Indian minds work. If USA was indeed looking to boost military ties with India, they will have to create "see-saw" type scenario in which Indians are made to buy from them because otherwise, their enemy will get the same. Like a tooth-paste, Indians have to be squeezed and tormented to get the business out.

 

[Wolf-PK]

5th G platform is talk of 2040 and beyond while our foe is flying near somewhere like mad waiting for opportunities....like Hyenas around a lion.

 

[Khafee]

Realistically speaking I had mention the J-10 and J-15 previously and it was for a reason.

Now I know there is fog------With Rafael coming this month and the first three being stationed in the south of India (Tactics development etc etc + DACT against the Mirage's and Mig-29) the first squadron will be stationed in Ambala "Golden Arrow's" Indian's have been in France for a while now and have flown the Rafael for over 1500 hrs and they have been training a squadron of pilots in India from a couple of months.

FACT CHECK

On the 27th the squadron will be landing with Pilots ready to take it into combat these Pilots are already experienced pilots, Top of the Line IAF. These pilots have been trained by the French they know what they are doing and they will be sitting about 250 km away from Pakistan with the most advanced plane in the region.

REALITY CHECK

We know PAF will not be sitting Idle, PAF has mastered BVR and have been developing unconventional tactic's with what ever it has but all resources have been pretty much stretched out and new weapon systems delivery are much needed and this is a reality we cannot escape. There are many other thing's that will happen if something is not done quickly and if it has already been done we dont know because PAF never make's anything public.

4 squadron of Air Superiority are needed ASAP.

F-16 is still our front line Fighter with Jf-17 being the back bone but the truth is that a squadron of F-16's can fight alone (alone as in F-16 vs su-30+Mirage)

The JF-17 being an all rounder and a light/almost mid weight fighter will need support. I have confidence in the JF-17 no doubt but half of our fleet are 2nd gen fighter's which will be replaced by the JF-17. There are some issues that cannot be solved with the JF-17 and you do need a dedicated air superiority fighter.


J-15/J-16 (dont give me the restriction of export issue because that is BS) F-7, F-6 and A-5 they were also copies and we did get a ton of them. J series will be a good addition with built in EW suite powerful flight computer and AESA it will essentially be a BVR truck fighting the battle from 100 km away while the JF-17 are doing the grunt duties (point defense + tactical attack).

For those of you who are trolling about 5th gen platform F-off.

sincerely

Mirage battle commander.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Some sense posted on PDF, I wanted to post it here just in case it get deleted as many knowledgeable and argument shattering posts with MOD kiss asses have been deleted in the past.

Edit your post, and remove the rude language.

 

[Khafee]

5th G platform is talk of 2040 and beyond while our foe is flying near somewhere like mad waiting for opportunities....like Hyenas around a lion.

I think they are aiming for a flying prototype of AZM by 2030 or earlier.

 

[Scorpio]

I think they are aiming for a flying prototype of AZM by 2030 or earlier.

Yes sir, one interesting possibility of azm can be that it may fall in 5.5 generation directly
i.e plan of high level of leaser weapon may be some other partials feature having dna of 6th generation

 

[Tunamelt]

Edit your post, and remove the rude language.

highlight what is rude,

thanks

 

[HardTalk]

highlight what is rude,

thanks

The part where you are asking others to ...

 

[Mastankhan]

Yes sir, one interesting possibility of azm can be that it may fall in 5.5 generation directly
i.e plan of high level of leaser weapon may be some other partials feature having dna of 6th generation

Hi,

Absolute NO---.

First they need to know and understand what the 5th gen is about---. Once they have the ability to understand procure utilize---then they may start to think of the 5.5 or the 6th gen---.

You have to understand this---they onl;y let us know what they want to---. So how can you compete and beat them when there is no open knowledge about the 5th gen aircraft---.

We are still living on the gossip market---.

The 4th and 4.5 gen are open secret--the F16's and f15's---and yet there is no aircraft in the world that can compete with them today---.

 

[Armchair]

Hi,

Absolute NO---.

First they need to know and understand what the 5th gen is about---. Once they have the ability to understand procure utilize---then they may start to think of the 5.5 or the 6th gen---.

You have to understand this---they onl;y let us know what they want to---. So how can you compete and beat them when there is no open knowledge about the 5th gen aircraft---.

We are still living on the gossip market---.

The 4th and 4.5 gen are open secret--the F16's and f15's---and yet there is no aircraft in the world that can compete with them today---.

3rd Gen - focused on speed
4th Gen - designed for maneuverability, high Gs, turbofan engines, FBW, composite usage, powerful radar with BVR capability (eventually)
5th Gen - Compromising on maneuverability to get shorter wavelength stealth

However, technology doesn't always progress linearly. Sometimes there is a step back. For instance, F-16s have a lower top speed than F-4s. F-35s have an even lower top speed and cannot break the sound barrier for more than 30 seconds on afterburner at a time.

So, there is some kind of compromise. I believe that a full stealth fighter is also going to take a step back. We already see this - F-22 is stealthier than F-35, F-35 tried to compromise by having a less stealthy airframe. Similarly, Su-57 is less stealthy. The French decided to induct an s-duct for stealth but didn't go for internal weapons bay on the Rafale.

I think 5.5 Gen could perhaps be a step back. Having aircraft that are hangar queens (like F-22), that need to be kept in special air conditioned hangars. That is not a combat plane to me - it is a joke. A joke that costs 5 times more than a conventional aircraft to maintain.

This is why USN is buying Super Hornets and USAF is desperately buying F-15s and trying to maintain their legacy F-15 / F-16 fleet.

So, what could a step back 5.5 Gen be like?

This is the question that Azm has to answer. It has to be a compromise, somewhere half way between an F-35 / F-22 and an F-16 / F-15. Perhaps an S-duct like the Rafale and semi-recessed weapons - a happy medium between an internal weapons bay and carrying the missiles on pylons.

Since laser tech has had massive steps forward - it could have a laser weapon instead of a gun. This could act not only as a weapon for a close fight but as DEW - the new hot topic in tech circles - destructive electronic warfare. Consider this - an AESA radar and other electronic systems are highly sensitive equipment. When you point a laser, even at range at it - they will not function efficiently and the laser may even create permanent damage to the systems.

This is the tech frontier territory that a team building a 5.5 Gen fighter has to consider.

Another factor that may change is basic aerodynamics. Just as aerodynamics changed from MiG-15 to MiG-21, F-5 to F-16, F-16 to F-22 - the basic aerodynamics are evolving to meet the challenges of the expected combat profile.

We are moving from the EM Curve gold standard to a new kind of war - fought at higher altitudes and higher speeds. Something that the F-22 demonstrates, as well as the Eurofighter and Su-57. The aerodynamic characteristics they represent are larger wing surfaces - for greater lift at high altitude, where the density of air is lower. Thrust vectoring controls, that also help the same. We are also seeing greater wing-body blending in the Su-57 and F-22, which again helps at higher altitudes.

Russia has clearly seen the bunny on this one, and you can see the development of the Pakfa already along the lines outlined above. They are showing less emphasis on stealth and greater emphasis on the BVR Hi-Hi battlespace.

The J-15 would not be outdated in this move towards a new doctrine. Simply because it is an arsenal plane, just like the F-15 and F/A-18. It has the aerodynamics and power necessary for a Hi-Hi combat doctrine. The only thing missing for it is stealth.

My guess about Azm is based on what I think it should be, to meet these evolving doctrinal goals. A single engined WS-10 / WS-15 based aircraft is possible, broadly along the lines of the F-22 conventional design layout, but a single engine design.

You could have recessed weapons. The last aircraft that experimented with recessed weapons was the Tornado. The recessed weapon station gives some stealth when weapons are loaded. However, if the missile dimensions change, then the effectiveness of the recessed station decreases or can even become unusable.

Another problem with recessed stations is that when the weapon is released, the space that is left exposed is a major RCS contributor, drastically increasing RCS.

An alternative also is possible with a hybrid recessed station and an internal bay. Yet another alternative is to go for a very small weapons bay that can only hold 2 PL-15s, and a single PL-10.

With a laser, some stealth yet not fully stealthy, a laser gun, FBL, aerodynamics designed for Hi-Hi, one could claim this to be 5.5 Gen. It wouldn't need an air conditioned hangar, and will not cost 5 times the maintenance cost of a 4th Gen. I think, 5.5 Gen could, if it follows this path, be called "practical stealth & lasers".