General Opinion Thread

[Berke2]

Bro, the filthy problem is that shia sect gets triggered when Iran faces problems in politics our strategics.

This is the problem and it is created by their leader. Those shia Muslims in Pakistan, many have more liking for iran as compared to Pak. This is the core issue that Pakistan hasn’t come out openly against Iran as such a move will cause extreme civil unrest. Apart from that, the reason that we don’t want trouble on our western border even more.

Shias in Pakistan must understand that Iran is not Shia and Shia is not iran. Anything happening to Iran must not be associated with the sect. This is the misconception.

As for The conflict, If Pakistan openly sides, it will have short and long term consequences.

If we Side with Arabs openly,

Short term : India will use that chance to support iran similarly to Mukti Bahini and formation if Bangladesh. Unrest on western borders.

Long term : Iran won’t get back to us (it isn’t even now thanks to it’s traitorous nature), they will give CPEC a hard time. India will further use them to fund filthy ops inside baloch.

If we side with iran AGAINST ARAB (which will never happen),

First of all, that would be extremely Backstabbing, however, I don’t see that happening and even counting that is stupid in this analysis. We would be siding with a country that has a history of playing naughty with you, and you just go to them in hope for a friendly future. The point to remember is “in hope”, doesn’t confirm iran’s post conflict stance and status with Pakistan and hence a risk.

Leaving the Arab arena would mean the end of our True helpful relations who have supported in bad times. We have millions of expats residing in Gulf, they come back and loss of remittances, over local population and chaos for jobs, resources and food for common people, hence increased crime rate. Economic growth sabotaged !!!

At the same time, Leaving Arabs truly on their own will definitely have an impact on their morales, and I can’t say anything in terms of military outcomes as that is complicated to think. KSA is HUGE, they need a very huge military in numbers to keep strong control but they lack numbers currently. However, against iran, numbers doesn’t matter as Iran isnt competent enough To send its huge force to Arab. So, the battle will be limited to BMs and CMs which are a big deal.

Pakistan’s presence in Arab is a MUST and should increase in Future with a possible foreign base acting as naval, air and land, somewhere around Aden.

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So in short, no sides, and sides shouldn’t be based on religious beef

I think we have a similar view of the problem. Just we differ on how to react towards it XD

 

[TomCat]

I think we have a similar view of the problem. Just we differ on how to react towards it XD

International relations and politics are oriented towards balancing the scale of interests and Cooperation.

Religious factor doesn’t count in it.
One can consider iran a criminal to seduce a small % of Pakistanis who in turn support iran MORE THAN PAK. But so is india doing similar things via Pakhtuns and Balochs.

All this comes under fueling civil problems.

A Well-Standing Iran is a fort for Pakistan. Iran isn’t occupied by proxies and external forces so they are very much standing on their own and aren’t a threat as much as USA or destabilized iraq is to Pakistan.

 

[Signalian]

India wants Pakistan to stand against Iran so India can again use Iran for sending in more Yadavs apart from other military support to surround Pakistan completely (from all possible sides).

 

[Counter-Errorist]

India wants Pakistan to stand against Iran so India can again use Iran for sending in more Yadavs apart from other military support to surround Pakistan completely (from all possible sides).

Which is precisely why I was hell-bent against our involvement in Yemen. Iranian is way ahead in the proxy war game than anyone else in the region. With Indian support, our forces will be stretched thin across the eastern and western borders. If things got bad enough for Iran to open a front against us, we just got ourselves a 3-front war.

 

[Scorpion]

Hey bro,

You viewpoint was strongly biased and based on religion POV.

Now think again as if you are a General. Take strategics, threats around us, potential threats and how to counter them, and international relations.

Our help to Arabs would be limited to intelligence at such a conflict, however, like Gen Raheel said “ We won’t join yemen, but when it comes to haramain, you will see us in front of you”.

So Basically, not until iran causes some internal damage to KSA by means of BM or CM, and see what USA and KSA does in Retaliation, Pakistan wont come out openly and take sides.

If God forbid, iran tries some mischief with KSA, i see very much from Pakistan openly taking sides and providing limited help.

When we take sides, india will use that chance to assist iran in keeping Pakistan busier than ever on the east and north as well as sea.

So Pakistan is in quite a rough spot. But, to deter that, China might try to keep india busy from north or aksai chin, this way, everyone will get dragged into, leading eventually to WW3

And then UAE, KSA, and Bahrain use the economic card with India which will hurt India very very hard. I do not think India will be stupid to pick aside in Iran vs Pakistan/Arab conflict.

 

[TomCat]

And then UAE, KSA, and Bahrain use the economic card with India which will hurt India very very hard. I do not think India will be stupid to pick aside in Iran vs Pakistan/Arab conflict.

This whole conflict is a very tough political scenario for Pakistan tho.

We have to maintain our brotherly relations with gulf as well as maintain relations with iran so as to protect our border from proxies, and economic problems.

If we lose one side, our adversary will benefit from it more.

So best for us to give it all on mediation between iran and gulf countries to keep it a bit calm

 

[Scorpion]

This whole conflict is a very tough political scenario for Pakistan tho.

We have to maintain our brotherly relations with gulf as well as maintain relations with iran so as to protect our border from proxies, and economic problems.

If we lose one side, our adversary will benefit from it more.

So best for us to give it all on mediation between iran and gulf countries to keep it a bit calm

Understandable but Iran is not willing to behave as a normal country.

 

[TomCat]

Understandable but Iran is not willing to behave as a normal country.

And the leadership is to blame for that. I have no beef with common iranis, i like them, even arabs have a liking for them, they are very common among coasts of UAE where small boats are loaded for good to/from iran.

 

[Berke2]

It really is a bad time for Muslim world. Open enemies on our borders, "friendly" nations who oppress Muslims in their countries and some enemies has bases in our countries.So the situation is not good and people's interests are muddled up due to this. An ayotollah led Iran and a BJP India unfortunately are both at the peak of the powers at the same time. It makes the life of countries like Pakistan difficult as then the threats come from both ways.

But in my opinion I think positive things will come from this insha'Allah. Perhaps the hardship will produce more men and women who follow their faith properly and then be aided by Allah against their enemies.

 

[Berke2]

Pakistani news websites are bad. Although I only check english language ones so perhaps there's better urdu language news websites out there?

But if there isn't then it really sucks how we haven't got a decent one yet. Dawns seems to be the most professional one but those liberals annoy me and they don't let me comment anything lol.

 

[Berke2]

Well worth the read.

 

[Berke2]

Interesting thread. Click the tweet to see all his posts, he eventually provides evidence for the tribe of Aad and where they used to live.

 

[Berke2]

Watching nationalists from different countries arguing is strange. These guys bring up genes and gene maps and all sorts. They are Muslim and they waste time arguing over rubbish like this.

 

[Berke2]

A study showed that children, from families where parents talk religion but they don't follow through with religious actions too, tend be at greater risk of becoming atheists. Perhaps this is why Iran is the most apostate ridden Muslim country? Because ayotollahs rule but their rule is corrupt and unislamic. So in response iranian shia leave the religion. Although of course other factors can't be counted out too. For example if you push iranian nationalism which is very racist and anti-arab and alongside combine it with twelver shiaism which hates many of the companions of the Prophet (pbuh), it probably isn't good for a person's mindset because they'll end up hating the early Muslims and then also slowly hating Islam (especially the nationalists as they see it as an invading religion).

In any case, I worry about Pakistanis going down a similar path. I have already seen one wretched pakistani attacking the early Muslims and viewing them as invaders. Also a number of other individuals who seem to follow some bizarre concept of indus nationalism. But still this is of course a very small minority but still very stupid. Then there's an open attitude of looking at religious scholars and imams with disdain. It's weird, some people's entire mindset revolves around blaming molvis for all of pakistan's problems. Not everything can be blamed on people just being ignorant and I think some imams or scholars give themselves a bad reputation Then of course there are the ignorant people too like some guy who I know is a fraudster and that's mainly what he's done for the past 20 years but yet he still thinks that bearded madarassa students are to blame for Pakistan's problems.

I think imams and scholars have to repair this relationship with the public before it gets out of hand. If this is the situation now then whats it going to be like in 50-60 years? I really wouldn't my grand kids to end up like Iranian kids. They need to be more honest and up hold justice better and help people more. You will get some jahils in a country who will dislike the religion of Allah but relationship between the majority and scholars cannot be allowed to sour otherwise the consequences will be bad.

 

[Falcon29]

A study showed that children, from families where parents talk religion but they don't follow through with religious actions too, tend be at greater risk of becoming atheists. Perhaps this is why Iran is the most apostate ridden Muslim country? Because ayotollahs rule but their rule is corrupt and unislamic. So in response iranian shia leave the religion. Although of course other factors can't be counted out too. For example if you push iranian nationalism which is very racist and anti-arab and alongside combine it with twelver shiaism which hates many of the companions of the Prophet (pbuh), it probably isn't good for a person's mindset because they'll end up hating the early Muslims and then also slowly hating Islam (especially the nationalists as they see it as an invading religion).

In any case, I worry about Pakistanis going down a similar path. I have already seen one wretched pakistani attacking the early Muslims and viewing them as invaders. Also a number of other individuals who seem to follow some bizarre concept of indus nationalism. But still this is of course a very small minority but still very stupid. Then there's an open attitude of looking at religious scholars and imams with disdain. It's weird, some people's entire mindset revolves around blaming molvis for all of pakistan's problems. Not everything can be blamed on people just being ignorant and I think some imams or scholars give themselves a bad reputation Then of course there are the ignorant people too like some guy who I know is a fraudster and that's mainly what he's done for the past 20 years but yet he still thinks that bearded madarassa students are to blame for Pakistan's problems.

I think imams and scholars have to repair this relationship with the public before it gets out of hand. If this is the situation now then whats it going to be like in 50-60 years? I really wouldn't my grand kids to end up like Iranian kids. They need to be more honest and up hold justice better and help people more. You will get some jahils in a country who will dislike the religion of Allah but relationship between the majority and scholars cannot be allowed to sour otherwise the consequences will be bad.

There probably is some truth to that correlation but these days there are many factors contributing to teens/adults becoming agnostics or atheists. Lots of it has to do with what they are exposed to in society in the form of anti-religion values/anti-God/anti-religion views. Also due to cultural norms which are no longer traditional, and these modern norms being at odds with religious norms/tenets and putting these younger people at odds with their religion or confusing them about what kind of lifestyle they should lead.

Iranians though believe in fiction/fantasies that all develop from their defensive mechanisms regarding their nationalist pride/history and general human defense mechanisms. If you look at Hindu's/Buddhists/Jews/Christians/Some Shia Muslims you see these similar philosophical approach between them. They are triggering all their defense mechanisms to avoid reality.

For example, many Jews today claim there is no such thing as 'Hell' or the punishment of Hell. They say those who are evil will just have their souls disappear after death and not be admitted with God. And they even say Paradise is not a physical realm. Some Christians believe in Hell but lots don't and think Jesus bought their sins and they are gonna have no issue after death and go straight to Paradise. Same thing with Shia, they make up fictional stories to defend their national pride and integrate Persian nationalist identity into Islam, and they also don't take God's judgement seriously and permit themselves to have tattoos and do mutah and putting pictures of some early Islam figures and invoking these figures instead of invoking God. They are basically unsure and not firm in their belief of God and Islam so they make sure to change what they feel they need to change just to be on safe side; ie meaning they don't know if Islam is true and need it to work to their benefit and not take chances with actually being sincere to God.

Sunni Muslims theology is the true monotheistic theology that doesn't do anything to avoid reality. Yes, God is real, yes the Prophet's are the righteous ones, yes we will be judged by God face to face and he will either admit us into Paradise or Hell that are physical in nature. Yes, God gave us a world in which there are pleasures and in which one has to make a choice, do they want this world and will they chase after the pleasures and disregard God or will they sacrifice these pleasures and seek to worship God even though they can't see him. Most people, including many Sunni's today, are very spiritually weak and leaning to the pleasures of this world.

Lots of those kind of Sunni's and Shia's however also want benefits of what religion can bring to them. For Shia its influence in Middle East and sense of community and feeling of being a unique minority and mutah and being like Christians putting pictures of religious figures everywhere. For Sunni's they like the experience in trying to outwardly appear as pious and being respected or highly regarded as a pious figure, so they go out of their way to try to establish such an image in their local community. So they are chasing after image which is a pleasure of life and disregarding God since many of them are not genuine about their practice and worship. As you can easily identify this by observing their character. I deal with such people in personal life and they are fake, two-faced people even inside the Mosque or community center. And they are arrogant as well. And not sincere about anything.

However, everywhere in the world, there are people, whether Muslims or non-Muslims, that are sincerely good people that don't enable these defense mechanisms and don't chase after an image, and they are more in tune with reality even if its more depressing to understand the world and its inhabitants(humans) are not a good people , overall. These kind of people God will not forget them and guide them to Islam and forming a real Islamic community when God deems it the time for that.

As for now we have fake, ill intentioned, and two faced people running our mosques and community centers and not willing to step down or back down at all and they bully the sincere people out the mosques and community centers out of sheer jealously as they can too recognize the Muslims that are better than them and more sincere them and are frustrated they can't have imaan and good hearted intentions like those Muslims do. So we are just going to have to deal with this reality in meantime. But tomorrow we will be whacking them on their heads and knocking the fakeness and inclination to evil out of them.