PAF gears up to develop 5th-generation fighter jet | Page 2 | World Defense

PAF gears up to develop 5th-generation fighter jet

BATMAN

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hi @Khafee merge these threads.
 

TomCat

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View attachment 10787

This one looks much like the one variant of TF-X with canards.
P.S - Pic of PAF C-130 from RIAT 2019. This could very well be a heavy weight platform but most probably it will be a medium weight.
 

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ccording to the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production’s (MoDP) yearbook for 2017-2018, the Aviation Research, Innovation and Development (AvRID) Secretariat completed the first of four “conceptual design phase” cycles for the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) program.

The MoDP yearbook states:

“First cycle of conceptual design phase has been completed. The first configuration that was designed based on the challenging performance requirements of PAF will go through three more cycles within the conceptual design using higher fidelity analysis tools and codes.”[1]

The FGFA is the centerpiece of Project Azm, the PAF’s vision for developing a turnkey aviation industrial base within Pakistan to support the country’s defence as well as civilian and commercial aviation needs.

The PAF formally initiated Project Azm in July 2017 with the objective of developing an FGFA, a medium-altitude and long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), new munitions, and other projects.

When it announced Project Azm, the then Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman, had stated that the design work of the MALE UAV was in its “final stages.” The 2017-2018 MoDP yearbook stated that the scheduled deadline for the MALE UAV’s maiden flight was June 2019.

Since the MoDP yearbooks cover issues completed over 12-18 months prior to publication, it would mean that the MALE UAV either flew or was delayed, and that the FGFA is well into its subsequent design work.

In terms of the FGFA, in a recent interview with the PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan, stated that he does not expect the FGFA to become operational for “another decade.”[2]

For more on Project Azm, Pakistan’s next generation Fighter program, see:

The CAS had also revealed the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) of the FGFA, i.e., a “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”[3] Thus, the FGFA is not only a clean-sheet design, but currently slated as a medium-to-heavyweight, high-performance jet.

This design configuration indicates that the PAF intends to produce a platform capable of heavier payloads and range than the JF-17. In other words, a platform optimized for offensive counter-air (OCA), maritime, and deep-strike platforms, i.e., a direct successor of both the F-16A/B Block-15s and the Mirage III/5…



[1] Year Book (sic) 2017-2018. Ministry of Defence Production. Government of Pakistan. 05 September 2019. URL: Ministry of Defence Production

[2] Alan Warnes. Interview with Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan. Jane’s defence Weekly. 22 May 2019.

[3] Ibid.



 
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The CAS had also revealed the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) of the FGFA, i.e., a “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”[3] Thus, the FGFA is not only a clean-sheet design, but currently slated as a medium-to-heavyweight, high-performance jet.
Has anyone put an airborne laser weapon in production?
I feel like the power requirements for them cannot be easily fulfilled in a jet.
 

TomCat

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According to the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production’s (MoDP) yearbook for 2017-2018, the Aviation Research, Innovation and Development (AvRID) Secretariat completed the first of four “conceptual design phase” cycles for the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) program.

The MoDP yearbook states:

“First cycle of conceptual design phase has been completed. The first configuration that was designed based on the challenging performance requirements of PAF will go through three more cycles within the conceptual design using higher fidelity analysis tools and codes.”[1]
Signalian, could you highlight the various phases and sub-phases involved in development/testing cycle ? Off course, thy might vary from country to country.

PAF will go through three more cycles within the conceptual design using higher fidelity analysis tools and codes.”[1]
Secondly, although not very important, do we also use FLAMES by Ternion to simulate design on computer, run it through different variables? Reason being, Turkey uses the same, they had even provided training to other interested parties to use this software for development.

View attachment 10821
Flames by ternion.com
 

BATMAN

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Link to Pak ministry of defense production is already posted in first thread of AZM. Quwa is basically is re-writting same info.
 

PewPew

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ccording to the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production’s (MoDP) yearbook for 2017-2018, the Aviation Research, Innovation and Development (AvRID) Secretariat completed the first of four “conceptual design phase” cycles for the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) program.

The MoDP yearbook states:

“First cycle of conceptual design phase has been completed. The first configuration that was designed based on the challenging performance requirements of PAF will go through three more cycles within the conceptual design using higher fidelity analysis tools and codes.”[1]

The FGFA is the centerpiece of Project Azm, the PAF’s vision for developing a turnkey aviation industrial base within Pakistan to support the country’s defence as well as civilian and commercial aviation needs.

The PAF formally initiated Project Azm in July 2017 with the objective of developing an FGFA, a medium-altitude and long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), new munitions, and other projects.

When it announced Project Azm, the then Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman, had stated that the design work of the MALE UAV was in its “final stages.” The 2017-2018 MoDP yearbook stated that the scheduled deadline for the MALE UAV’s maiden flight was June 2019.

Since the MoDP yearbooks cover issues completed over 12-18 months prior to publication, it would mean that the MALE UAV either flew or was delayed, and that the FGFA is well into its subsequent design work.

In terms of the FGFA, in a recent interview with the PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan, stated that he does not expect the FGFA to become operational for “another decade.”[2]

For more on Project Azm, Pakistan’s next generation Fighter program, see:

The CAS had also revealed the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) of the FGFA, i.e., a “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”[3] Thus, the FGFA is not only a clean-sheet design, but currently slated as a medium-to-heavyweight, high-performance jet.

This design configuration indicates that the PAF intends to produce a platform capable of heavier payloads and range than the JF-17. In other words, a platform optimized for offensive counter-air (OCA), maritime, and deep-strike platforms, i.e., a direct successor of both the F-16A/B Block-15s and the Mirage III/5…



[1] Year Book (sic) 2017-2018. Ministry of Defence Production. Government of Pakistan. 05 September 2019. URL: Ministry of Defence Production

[2] Alan Warnes. Interview with Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan. Jane’s defence Weekly. 22 May 2019.

[3] Ibid.



Yea...I don't think we're going to buy another fighter. No way the PAF would set-up Azm as a twin-engine jet if it had been able to buy one from the market. In the Jane's interview cited, the CAS basically said the plan right now is: JF-17 Block 3, LIFT, and Azm.
 

Khafee

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Yea...I don't think we're going to buy another fighter. No way the PAF would set-up Azm as a twin-engine jet if it had been able to buy one from the market. In the Jane's interview cited, the CAS basically said the plan right now is: JF-17 Block 3, LIFT, and Azm.
You mean no Vipers and Flying Sharks?
 

PewPew

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You mean no Vipers and Flying Sharks?
Vipers are a special case. We have the Block-72's engine and airframe infrastructure already, and the Block-72 costs the least of all of the options.

Yes, a $6 billion US program to buy 36 Block-72s and upgrade our existing F-16s to F-16V standards would take money away from Proj. Azm, but the net-benefit is adding 100+ AESA radar-equipped jets -- that's an OK trade-off.

But spending $3-4 b on 30-40 Su-35s or 18-24 Typhoon T3s isn't a good trade-off for delaying Project Azm. If those are the only options, then the PAF will eat grass and work on Project Azm.

As for the Chinese, if low cost enough, we can look at leasing their Flanker derivatives if the option is available. But we won't keep them when we have our own twin-engine jet in the works.
 

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PewPew

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So Azm is not about a fighter jet only? Are these three interconnected or anyone can be undertaken, completed and delivered separately?

Which one would be the most complex and hard one? Fighter aircraft?
Project Azm covers multiple different projects, but the FGFA is the crown jewel. But it also involves a MALE UAV and, I think, a 10-30 seat passenger aircraft or single-aisle airliner. For the latter, they might as well try to revive the Saab 2000 and start manufacturing it in Pakistan.
 

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Project Azm covers multiple different projects, but the FGFA is the crown jewel. But it also involves a MALE UAV and, I think, a 10-30 seat passenger aircraft or single-aisle airliner. For the latter, they might as well try to revive the Saab 2000 and start manufacturing it in Pakistan.
So all these sub projects must have different deadlines or expected completion dates, the beforehand experience in all of them must vary too?

The involvement is civilian / military or fully military only? If civilian participation is there then how much domestic and how much foreign?

In my opinion this project should also help our domestic defense industry.
 

PewPew

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So all these sub projects must have different deadlines or expected completion dates, the beforehand experience in all of them must vary too?

The involvement is civilian / military or fully military only? If civilian participation is there then how much domestic and how much foreign?

In my opinion this project should also help our domestic defense industry.
The projects have varying deadlines.

The first through the gate is supposed to be the MALE UAV. The previous CAS said it was in its final design stages (in 2017) and the MoDP said it was supposed to fly by June 2019. So, I think we'll start hearing about it soon, hopefully by or around IDEAS 2020.

The second one I'd expect is the civil airliner. The basic idea is to get a license to set-up a final assembly line in Kamra and, potentially, manufacture aero-structures, parts, etc. Anyways, this is still early stages, but if it picks up steam it'll certainly come before the FGFA.

The third one is the FGFA. The current general ETA on that is around 2030.

Of course, besides those three major programs, the previous CAS said they're looking to developing more munitions. There's the IREK, but there have been reports of interest in developing air-to-air and other air-to-surface weapons. So, we'll see what happens there.

The involvement is mixed, even the FGFA program reportedly has a relatively high civilian participate rate (apparently 60%!)

As for foreign involvement, the details are mum on that front.
 

I.R.A

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The third one is the FGFA. The current general ETA on that is around 2030.

Will it be at par with others at that time? Like what generation would it be competing, 5th? Just trying to understand where our efforts would stand in international market by that time.
 

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Will it be at par with others at that time? Like what generation would it be competing, 5th? Just trying to understand where our efforts would stand in international market by that time.
It seems the idea is to have a design with as much growth potential as possible. The current ASR for the FGFA is that it must be twin-engine and have super-cruise plus space for directed energy weapons (DEW).

Obviously, we know the DEWs won't come anytime soon, and even super-cruise is a big ask too (for 2030). But they're trying to design the jet to absorb post-5th-gen technologies. In fact, in an interview in 2016 or 2017, the previous CAS said the ASR was 'looking beyond 5th generation.'

I think a good example is to think about the F-16. The F-16 Block-1's main advances were its relaxed stability and FBW, but everything else, such as its multi-mode radar, MFDs, HUD, etc came with the Block-15, and the rest is history beyond that (we're on Block-72 now, which can take on the Rafale or Typhoon). The PAF is probably approaching its FGFA the same way, i.e., basic at the start, 5+/6th gen potential.

That said, whatever we roll out, we'll start producing and inducting for our own use the moment it's cleared. I think that gives our product the advantage of being relatively competitive on the market. I can definitely see South Africa, Brazil, Algeria, Egypt, Malaysia, etc, talk to us about it, there are just too few other options otherwise.
 

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