Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria | Page 3 | World Defense

Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria

UAE

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You are correct on that - I don't know much about the Middle East particularly Syria and Turkey. All I know about Turkey is that it is a melting pot of different races but this I learned from a friend who works there. I don't have a good mind of history, a bit forgetful sometimes. But I believe that Russia will do something to retaliate, just my opinion. But I heard in the news this morning that US had confirmed that Turkey air force had warned the Russian plane more than 10 times, that's a justification of the shotdown.
Why would Russia retaliate when being the aggressive here? Russia violated Turkish Air Space and such a reaction is justified.
 

T-123456

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But I believe that Russia will do something to retaliate, just my opinion.
All Russia can do is threaten,nothing more.
Russia depends on Turkiye for hard cash(40% of gas imports are from Russia) and Turkiye depends on Russia for other trade like Turkish goods ,the building sector etc.
Im sure you know the economic situation of Russia with all the sanctions against it.
 

Gabriel92

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Im overjoyed today. Yes Turkey should trade over its sovereignty. Russia is wrong if it thinks it will get a handshake in return.

Well done Turkey.....Fuck the Russkies.
They cry over their airspace violated,but continue to violate Greece's ! (In some months,they violated it more than 1000x times !
I wish Greece could repeat what happened in 1996 to every Turkish aircraft that violate their sovereignty !
 

Falcon29

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Apparently Turkey is moving tanks to the Syrian border where turkmen ethnicity is located.

I can't confirm though

@T-123456
 

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BLACKEAGLE

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Russia seeks economic revenge against Turkey over jet
ISTANBUL/MOSCOW | By Humeyra Pamuk and Vladimir Soldatkin

Russia's President Vladimir Putin walks past honor guards as he attends a ceremony to receive diplomatic credentials from foreign ambassadors at the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia, November 26, 2015.
Reuters/Sergei Ilnitsky/Pool

Russia threatened economic retaliation against Turkey on Thursday and said it was still awaiting a reasonable explanation for the shooting down of its warplane, but Turkey dismissed the threats as "emotional" and "unfitting".

In an escalating war of words, President Tayyip Erdogan responded to Russian accusations that Turkey has been buying oil and gas from Islamic State in Syria by accusing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his backers, which include Moscow, of being the real source of the group's financial and military power.

The shooting down of the jet by the Turkish air force on Tuesday was one of the most serious clashes between a NATO member and Russia, and further complicated international efforts to battle Islamic State militants.

World leaders have urged both sides to avoid escalation.

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev on Thursday ordered his government to draw up measures that would include freezing some joint investment projects and restricting food imports from Turkey.

Economy Minister Alexei Ulyukayev said Moscow could put limits on flights to and from Turkey, halt preparations for a joint free trade zone, and restrict high-profile projects including the TurkStream gas pipeline and a $20 billion nuclear power plant Russia is building in Turkey.

"We are strategic partners ... 'Joint projects may be halted, ties could be cut'? Are such approaches fitting for politicians?," Erdogan said in a speech in Ankara.

"First the politicians and our militaries should sit down and talk about where errors were made and then focus on overcoming those errors on both sides. But instead, if we make emotional statements like this, that wouldn’t be right."

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia was still awaiting a reasonable answer from Ankara on why it downed the fighter jet. Moscow insists it never left Syrian air space, but Ankara says it crossed the border despite repeated warnings.

Erdogan said the Russian jet was shot down as an "automatic reaction" to the violation of Turkish air space, in line with standing orders given to the military.

Those instructions were a separate issue to disagreements with Russia over Syria policy, he said, adding Ankara would continue to support moderate rebels in Syria and Turkmen fighters battling President Assad's forces.

Related Coverage
He told CNN that Russia, not Turkey, should be the one to apologize for the incident.

"PROVE YOUR CLAIMS"

Medvedev on Wednesday alleged that Turkish officials were benefiting from Islamic State oil sales, while Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said it was no secret that "terrorists" use Turkish territory.

"Shame on you. It's clear where Turkey buys its oil and gas ... Those who claim we are buying oil from Daesh like this must prove their claims. Nobody can slander this country," Erdogan said, using an Arabic acronym for Islamic State.

"If you are seeking the source of weaponry and financial power of Daesh, the first place to look is the Assad regime and countries that act with it," he said.

Moscow says its military involvement in Syria is aimed at battling terrorist groups including Islamic State, casting the campaign to a supportive Russian public as a moral crusade that must be completed despite obstruction from elsewhere.

Turkey and its allies say Russia's real aim is to prop up its ally Assad and that it has been bombing moderate opposition groups in areas of Syria like Latakia, where the jet was downed, and where there is little or no Islamic State presence.

Russian forces have shown no sign of backing down, launching a heavy bombardment against insurgent-held areas in Latakia on Wednesday, near where the jet crashed.

A Reuters correspondent on the Turkish side of the border saw rockets and tank shells being fired from government-controlled western Latakia eastwards into rebel-held territory, sending plumes of smoke rising from the wooded hillsides.

Related Coverage
TOURISTS, FOOD AND WHEAT

Turkey's action infuriated Russia, but Moscow's response has been carefully calibrated. There is little sign it wants a military escalation, or to jeopardize its main objective in the region: to rally international support for its view on how the conflict in Syria should be resolved.

But it clearly wants to punish Turkey economically.

The head of Russia's tourism agency, Rostourism, said cooperation with Turkey would "obviously" be halted. At least two large Russian tour operators had already said they would stop selling packages to Turkey after Russian officials advised holidaymakers against traveling to its resorts.

Russians are second only to Germans in terms of the numbers visiting Turkey, bringing in an estimated $4 billion a year in tourism revenues, which Turkey needs to help fund its gaping current account deficit.

Medvedev meanwhile said Russia may impose restrictions on food imports within days, having already increased checks of Turkish agriculture products, its first public move to curb trade.

Moscow banned most Western food imports in 2014 when Western countries imposed sanctions on Russia over its role in the Ukraine crisis, leading to supply disruptions as retailers had to find new suppliers and galloping inflation.

The row has also put a brake on new wheat deals between Russia, one of the world's largest wheat exporters, and Turkey, the largest buyer of Russian wheat.

(Additional reporting by Tulay Karadeniz in Ankara, Ayla Jean Yackley in Istanbul, Mehmet Emin Caliskan in Yayladagi,; Lidia Kelly, Polina Devitt, Olga Sichkar and Maria Kiselyova in Moscow, Sarah McFarlane in London; Writing by Nick Tattersall; Editing by Giles Elgood)
Russia seeks economic revenge against Turkey over jet| Reuters
 

BLACKEAGLE

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Russia's President Vladimir Putin walks past honor guards as he attends a ceremony to receive diplomatic credentials from foreign ambassadors at the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia, November 26, 2015.
Reuters/Sergei Ilnitsky/Pool


Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan makes a speech during his meeting with mukhtars at the Presidential Palace in Ankara, Turkey, November 26, 2015.
Reuters/Umit Bektas


Pilots of a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 fighter jet prepare before a flight at the Hmeymim air base near Latakia, Syria, in this handout photograph released by Russia's Defence Ministry October 5, 2015.
Reuters/Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation/Handout via Reuters


Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, accompanied by his wife Emine Erdogan, adressess teachers during a reception at the Presidential Palace in Ankara, Turkey, November 24, 2015 in this handout photo provided by Presidential Press Office.
Reuters/Kayhan Ozer/Presidential Press Office/Handout via Reuters


The windows of the Turkish embassy broken by protesters in reaction after a Russian war plane was shot down by Turkey, are pictured in Moscow, Russia November 25, 2015. Russians in Moscow responded on Wednesday to the downing of a Russian jet by Turkey the day before by...
Reuters/Sergei Karpukhin


An employee looks out of the window of the Turkish embassy damaged by protesters in reaction after a Russian war plane was shot down by Turkey, in Moscow, Russia November 25, 2015. Russians in Moscow responded on Wednesday to the downing of a Russian jet by Turkey the day...
Reuters/Sergei Karpukhin
 

Redheart

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Turkey's President said he won't apologize for the shooting down of the Russian warplane.

Erdogan: Turkey won't apologize for downing Russian jet - CNN.com
"I think if there is a party that needs to apologize, it is not us," he said from the Turkish capital. "Those who violated our airspace are the ones who need to apologize. Our pilots and our armed forces, they simply fulfilled their duties, which consisted of responding to ... violations of the rules of engagement. I think this is the essence."
If an apology would deescalate the situation why can't Turkey just apologize and get done with it?
 

T-123456

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Did Turkiye overreact to Russia’s second-long violation? Hell No!



The Russian Federation has a typical way of dealing with NATO member countries in security confrontations. Moscow does not directly and openly confront these countries but rather abuses the gray area in which certain encroachments are too insufficient as to require the invocation of Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. Within this gray area, Russia commits a violation(airspace violations of the Baltic state and eastern European countries) and then propagandizes to other NATO member countries not to regard the matter as a serious threat that would necessitate NATO involvement. Thus, using salami tactics, Russia expands its influence on the ground without directly confronting NATO all the while pushing ahead to attain its goals.

As it relates to Russia’s encounters with Turkiye, Ankara(Erdogan) had indeed enjoyed closer relations with Moscow, especially compared to its other NATO counterparts in Eastern Europe that are more familiar with Russia’s tactics. In fact, Turkiye’s gradually developing relations with Russia, primarily on the basis of economic and energy cooperation, even became subject to criticism from Turkiye’s Western allies. Turkiye also chose to disregard its differences with Russia when it came to Syria and attempted to solve Russia’s minor violations with an appeasement policy.

Nonetheless, these cordial relations ended with Russia’s bold move to intervene in Syria in line with Iran, Assad, and Hezbollah. With this move, Russia showed its intention to choose strategic influence in the Middle East over its cordial relations with Turkiye(again,just Erdogan). This came to constitute a breaking point not only because the two countries’ differences in Syria peaked, but also because of Turkiye’s eventual reception of Russia’s support for the PYD along with its violation of Turkish airspace as inimical. Considering such developments, Russian President Putin’s “stab in the back” rhetoric is indeed implausible.

Why did Turkiye shoot down the Russian jet?

Following the downing of the jet, some experts evaluated the incident in terms of an overreaction on the part of Turkiye. Certain contentions were voiced employing a line of argument that an airspace violation which only took seconds should not be reason for such a strong reaction. There was also news about NATO members suggesting that the Russian jet should have been escorted out of Turkish airspace as a softer alternative. Nonetheless, the issue is not about the duration of this single Russian violation; rather it is about the nature and prospects of Russian violations.NATO(not just Turkiye) sent a message to Putin ''dont push it''.

This is not the first and only time that Russia violated Turkish airspace. It had also done so last month. Turkiye has already escorted Russian jets out of its airspace not only at the Syrian border but also above the Black Sea - in March this year. Russian missile systems have also harassed Turkish air forces in the past. In this way, it can be seen that Russian violations have come to exhibit an iterative and expanding quality that can be regarded as designed to test the limits. At some point Turkiye had to stop this. Otherwise, Russia would continue to commit ever invasive violations.

What’s next?

After the crisis, further escalation would be between Russia and NATO rather than Russia and Turkiye seeing that the latter took the matter to Brussels and provided solid evidence that the Russian aircraft indeed violated Turkiye’s airspace. From this point on, NATO’s acquiescence of further Russian violations directed at Turkey would severely damage its deterrence capability. Thus, it is of low probability that Russia escalate tension to an all-out confrontation with NATO. In this sense, it is certain that diplomatic attempts to de-escalate the tension will take place.

As Former US Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul stated, Russia’s reaction will probably come in an asymmetric way. In terms of political reactions, Russia will focus on fighting ISIS in order to rally others against Turkiye. Here, a growing international consensus that ISIS is the main target in Syria has become more apparent after the attacks in Beirut and Paris and the plane explosion in Sinai. Expectations for a united coalition against ISIS have even come to the fore. Thus, Russia will probably attempt to ride this wave in an attempt to drive Turkiye into a corner(wont work). As Putin made certain accusations of Turkiye’s relationship with ISIS after the event, it may be expected that this policy will deepen. Besides, Turkiye may be accused of harming the possibility of Russian cooperation with West against ISIS. Russia will also probably push for Turkiye’s isolation in the Syria talks, and increase its support for Assad and the PYD. Nonetheless, Russia has already more or less walked this line up until now.Turkiye will have massive military support from the GCC countries and NATO,Qatar already offered to send LNG(gas) tankers,the KSA is ready to provide whatever is needed in military equipment.
Russia together with Iran want the implementation of their plan to cutt the transit route(oil and gas) from GCC to Turkiye and further to Europe which would mean,huge loss of revenue( for both).
Europe would rather buy from the GCC then be dependend on Russia and or Iran.
When we see the importance of Syria for not just for Russia,Iran,GCC,Turkiye and Europe,it is a must for all sides that Syria stays ''intact'' and not be ''cutt up'' into smaller ''pieces'',therefor the need to win the ''lines'',Iran needs an East-West line(from Iran through Iraq to the Mediterranean Sea),the GCC,Turkiye and Europe need the North-South line(From the Arabian peninsula through Turkiye to Europe).
Lets not go to deep in to the mess that is called the ME,there are more parties like the Kurds,Israel and the US with their diferent interests which complecates it even more.
Btw,i didnt mention ISIS because its role is a whole different story.
 

Scorpion

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They cry over their airspace violated,but continue to violate Greece's ! (In some months,they violated it more than 1000x times !
I wish Greece could repeat what happened in 1996 to every Turkish aircraft that violate their sovereignty !
Greece has the right to retaliate against any form of aggression be it from Turkey or anyone else for that matter. Violating of airspace is considered an act of war and I hold myself in that position. Back in 80s, Iran, Israel and Iraq violated airspace of Saudi Arabia and all of them got their assess handed to them by the RSAF.
 

T-123456

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They cry over their airspace violated,but continue to violate Greece's ! (In some months,they violated it more than 1000x times !
I wish Greece could repeat what happened in 1996 to every Turkish aircraft that violate their sovereignty !
Dude,i know you are a racist(comfirmed)and against Turkiye but in this case my answer would be,''why doesnt Greece try something instead of letting racists like talk about?
 

Scorpion

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Take it easy both of you.¢Ω≈
 

charris89

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This is a very interesting development. No one can really blame Turkey for defending their airspace. The situation is definitely tense at the moment, however it's extremely unlikely that this will escalate into a war. Russia will play it's games, but at the end of the day they both need each other to survive.
 
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