Turkey seeking VTOL planes

[Atalay]

Turkey has been seeking to buy an unknown number of Harrier fighters as a stop-gap measure until the F-35B short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) version of the Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is ready for Turkish service, Jane’s has learned from reliable Turkish and Western defence industry sources.

http://www.snafu-solomon.com/2017/12/turkey-seeks-to-buy-harriers-as-interim.html

 

[Scorpion]

It was a big mistake going for the F-35 with the technical issues it has. Its a non combat proven yet. Why did Turkey go for it seeing countries like Australia, Canada and Poland running away with another plans leaving the F-35 behind. Lets see if the US is going to sell Harriers to Turkey.

 

[Atalay]

Difficult but good question. I believe Turkish decision makers have limited visions and feel restricted by NATO.
There are many countries who operate an efficient weapon mix, also with eastern weapons.
These countries have even less personal and technological infrastructure.

 

[Scorpion]

Difficult but good question. I believe Turkish decision makers have limited visions and feel restricted by NATO.
There are many countries who operate an efficient weapon mix, also eastern with weapons.
These countries have even less personal and technological infrastructure.

I believe Turkey was pushed into the deal somehow. Saudi Arabia was offer the F-35 but rejected the offer and requested more F-15SA. Turkey should backup from the deal and request no more f-35 instead request The f-16 block 70, the right choice. Maybe negotiate with Israel to sell the current F-35 fleet to them. Is it Turkish standard or just the regular one?

 

[Atalay]

I agree, Turkey was pushed into the deal.
Turkey had other altenatives, joining Eurofighter or cooperation with SAAB for Viggen, second could have been a very realistic solution.
There is no more cooperation on arms with Israel possible. Now, after Trump and Czech Gov. accepted Kudüs as capital of Israel current Turkish Gov. can't leave Islamic countries and Palestine alone.
BTW, KSA and Egypt agreed unfortunately to the US decision. KSA is a "non official" nuclear military power.

 

[Lieutenant]

I agree, Turkey was pushed into the deal.
Turkey had other altenatives, joining Eurofighter or cooperation with SAAB for Viggen, second could have been a very realistic solution.
There is no more cooperation on arms with Israel possible. Now, after Trump and Czech Gov. accepted Kudüs as capital of Israel current Turkish Gov. can't leave Islamic countries and Palestine alone.
BTW, KSA and Egypt agreed unfortunately to the US decision. KSA is a "non official" nuclear military power.

It would have been logical for Turkey Air Force to opt for the Eurofighter or the Rafale for that matter. I don't see the Viggen an option though. The Su-variants are better alternative but it carries some risk. Turkey being a NATO member leaves it with no choice but to stick to NATO standard. Not to forget the current procurement of the S-400 drew backlash from the US and might hurt Turkey future arm deals.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It would have been logical for Turkey Air Force to opt for the Eurofighter or the Rafale for that matter. I don't see the Viggen an option though. The Su-variants are better alternative but it carries some risk. Turkey being a NATO member leaves it with no choice but to stick to NATO standard. Not to forget the current procurement of the S-400 drew backlash from the US and might hurt Turkey future arm deals.

I agree that the European options, the Eurofighter and the Rafale, as being much more logical choices for Turkey. Reaching out for the F-35 was immature.

 

[Lieutenant]

I agree that the European options, the Eurofighter and the Rafale, as being much more logical choices for Turkey. Reaching out for the F-35 was immature.

Unfortunately Turkey have been left alone. It doesn't even have a strong presence to lobby for itself inside the US. The US abandoned it and withdrew the only medium range air defence system Turkey relied on to protect its airspace, that explains why Turkey is keen to have the S-400 deal with Russia finalized. The US got pissed about it and Turkey got stucked in the middle.

ANKARA, Turkey — The United States has started pulling its Patriot missiles stationed on Turkish soil, Turkish officials said.

"We do not think this is the best time to withdraw these batteries," said one senior Turkish diplomat. "This is a delicate time for our border with Syria."

On Oct. 3 and 4, Russian warplanes twice violated Turkish airspace during Moscow's bombing campaign in Syria aimed at bolstering the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Then on Oct. 7, the Turkish military said that Syria-based missile systems harassed Turkey's warplanes while eight F-16 jets were on patrol along the Syria border. Turkey also said an unidentified MiG-29 harassed its jets Oct. 6, prompting the Foreign Ministry to summon the Russian ambassador three times in protest.

https://www.defensenews.com/home/2015/10/11/us-begins-removing-patriot-missiles-from-turkey/

 

[Atalay]

It would have been logical for Turkey Air Force to opt for the Eurofighter or the Rafale for that matter. I don't see the Viggen an option though. The Su-variants are better alternative but it carries some risk. Turkey being a NATO member leaves it with no choice but to stick to NATO standard. Not to forget the current procurement of the S-400 drew backlash from the US and might hurt Turkey future arm deals.

Rafale was not possible cause French Armenian and PKK policy and severe differences between the countries.
Eurofighter was an option, comparable to A-400 M cooperation. But I can't remember that Turkey was ever invited to participate.
Viggen could have been a good choice regarding cost - efficiency and NATO standarts.
Who knows whats going on behind closed doors ?
For sure Turkey needs a stop gap solution until TF will be operable in significant numbers. ( 2030 ?)
Back to topic, it seems that HMS Ocean will be sold to Brazil. There are 3 years left for LHD/LPD Anadolu air platforms equipment.
It is even not sure that next year first two F-35 A will be delivered to Turkey. F-35 B is not on the official agenda.
Let's assume that Turkey makes a real U-turn and cooperates with Russia on a new YAK-14(1) version ? (Wishful thinking)
Russia is pushing production of new Aircraft Carriers and derivatives.

 

[UAE]

Rafale was not possible cause French Armenian and PKK policy and severe differences between the countries.
Eurofighter was an option, comparable to A-400 M cooperation. But I can't remember that Turkey was ever invited to participate.
Viggen could have been a good choice regarding cost - efficiency and NATO standarts.
Who knows whats going on behind closed doors ?
For sure Turkey needs a stop gap solution until TF will be operable in significant numbers. ( 2030 ?)
Back to topic, it seems that HMS Ocean will be sold to Brazil. There are 3 years left for LHD/LPD Anadolu air platforms equipment.
It is even not sure that next year first two F-35 A will be delivered to Turkey. F-35 B is not on the official agenda.
Let's assume that Turkey makes a real U-turn and cooperates with Russia on a new YAK-14(1) version ? (Wishful thinking)
Russia is pushing production of new Aircraft Carriers and derivatives.

How close is the TF for first flight test?

 

[Atalay]

How close is the TF for first flight test?

2023 , 100 th anniversary year of Turkish Republic.

 

[Lieutenant]

Rafale was not possible cause French Armenian and PKK policy and severe differences between the countries.
Eurofighter was an option, comparable to A-400 M cooperation. But I can't remember that Turkey was ever invited to participate.
Viggen could have been a good choice regarding cost - efficiency and NATO standarts.
Who knows whats going on behind closed doors ?
For sure Turkey needs a stop gap solution until TF will be operable in significant numbers. ( 2030 ?)
Back to topic, it seems that HMS Ocean will be sold to Brazil. There are 3 years left for LHD/LPD Anadolu air platforms equipment.
It is even not sure that next year first two F-35 A will be delivered to Turkey. F-35 B is not on the official agenda.
Let's assume that Turkey makes a real U-turn and cooperates with Russia on a new YAK-14(1) version ? (Wishful thinking)
Russia is pushing production of new Aircraft Carriers and derivatives.

Relying on Viggen as a first-liner is a grave mistake. The UK would have no issue whatsoever selling the EF to Turkey. I don't think the YAK-14 is suitable as its an old concept in need of revival. Pakistan can cooperate with Turkey and lend you a hand. Maybe Turkey can go for the JF-17 block III. The best bid would be the F-16 block 70 for now. The Sukhoi Su-30/35 would be a great idea as well.

On a side note, is Turkey interested in AC? If so then the F-18 is the way to go.

 

[UAE]

2023 , 100 th anniversary year of Turkish Republic.

Its taking forever, 5 years to go.

 

[Atalay]

Its taking forever, 5 years to go.

The demands of TurAF makes it not easy. Taking a ready design and engines, modifying and equipping it with domestic components would be much easier. But most of you know that Turkey wants to minimize dependence to foreign suppliers.

 

[Khafee]

Turkey seeks to buy Harriers as an interim measure until F-35Bs are ready
Kerry Herschelman - Jane's Defence Weekly
06 December 2017

Turkey has been seeking to buy an unknown number of Harrier fighters as a stop-gap measure until the F-35B short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) version of the Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is ready for Turkish service, Jane’s has learned from reliable Turkish and Western defence industry sources.

Jane’s earlier reported that Turkey had expressed to the United States its interest in purchasing 19-20 of the F-35B STOVL version. This is in addition to the 100 F-35As it already plans to buy from Lockheed Martin.

Turkey first approached the United Kingdom about the purchase of Harriers but then turned to the United States for the AV-8B in the inventory of the US Marine Corps because the aircraft have not been used by the UK armed forces since 2010.

http://www.janes.com/article/76200/...-as-an-interim-measure-until-f-35bs-are-ready