27th Feb 2019 - History Made!

[Khafee]

27th of Feb was a historic moment in history. A larger air force got slapped so hard, that they will never forget. Pls discuss events related to it, in this thread.

Thanks!

 

[Caprxl]

this time India will have much bigger misadventure may open multiple air fronts consecutively due to high numbers of air articles thay have in inventory

Remember as @Khafee mentioned multiple times, Pakistan Armed Forces has plans in place for emergency situations specifically PAF; "Redundancy & Contingency"

Exactly my point of concern, what if india open multi air front , we cant replicate 27 feb senario more then 2 front , lets makae max 3 front if we count all our air AWACS specifically EW .

Provide Allah's help;

1. Swift Retort was a magician's Trick among money hidden up his sleeve, a card from deck of many ??
2. A Magician Never reveal his secret (for those of us who might think we have exposed too much of ours in return for too little of theirs)

Well for short term or in emergency situation, we are good, BUT i agree with concerns shown by both of you, so for the long term comes Khafee Leaks along with block 3. It will be sufficient for us until Azm. Though great in quantity India's Resources are not infinite. What men have to do is to get maximum out of the resources they have & for this Alhumdulillah we have

"Men at Their BEST"

 

[Caprxl]

our response was too late have no connection with there failure on 26 th

It is debatable . Personally i was also of the same opinion but after spending some time on OSINT, few crumbs from PAF & other sources, i would beg to differ now.
We will never be able to know the complete picture, there were lot of trophies won by PAF during last week of Feb' 19 which may never see daylight in near future.

Oh Yes, and cut the "Sir" , bother would do just fine. Hell who knows am even Younger than you

 

[Scorpio]

It is debatable . Personally i was also of the same opinion but after spending some time on OSINT, few crumbs from PAF & other sources, i would beg to differ now.
We will never be able to know the complete picture, there were lot of trophies won by PAF during last week of Feb' 19 which may never see daylight in near future.

Oh Yes, and cut the "Sir" , bother would do just fine. Hell who knows am even Younger than you

Sir word is not related to age, its my way of giving respect bro

 

[Scorpio]

It is debatable . Personally i was also of the same opinion but after spending some time on OSINT, few crumbs from PAF & other sources, i would beg to differ now.
We will never be able to know the complete picture, there were lot of trophies won by PAF during last week of Feb' 19 which may never see daylight in near future.

Oh Yes, and cut the "Sir" , bother would do just fine. Hell who knows am even Younger than you

Your right there few unsung heros there, our prays are always woth them.
We also know there are fighter on chines bordar in standby mood on 27th feb even were in air at time operation
Brother, but what about 26th feb, were we ready? is intel let us prepare on specific day ?, or 26th Indian jet failed due our forces actions ? The answer in NO it was entirely Gods act in our favour and dont know how many prayers of our elders

 

[CHI RULES]

Your right there few unsung heros there, our prays are always woth them.
We also know there are fighter on chines bordar in standby mood on 27th feb even were in air at time operation
Brother, but what about 26th feb, were we ready? is intel let us prepare on specific day ?, or 26th Indian jet failed due our forces actions ? The answer in NO it was entirely Gods act in our favour and dont know how many prayers of our elders

What happened on 26 th shows importance of SAMs especially near hot borders. The 26 th Feb clearly shows the shortcomings regarding our AD via capable SAM network, we even have medium range SAMs only to protect particular sites. The scenario is changing we should have short to medium range batteries near all our borders only few in numbers can cover sufficient areas. Apparently we have so far done nothing apart from getting few radars from China/Others.
We should immediately get few batteries of HQ16b with 70+KM range along with HQ7 batteries should immediately deploy them along Kashmir and allied borders.

On other side after 27 th Feb Indian response is more professional one they have started to acquire long range BVR missiles along with upgrades on the fighter jet fleet. But they have immediately addressed the issue of BVRs and perhaps shall be installing encrypted secured communication systems . In next skirmish or conflict PAF shall face jets with better ranged BVRs, hard to jam radars as most likely AESA and secured communication system.

On other hand it shall be appreciable if some one can elaborate capabilities of coming J15 i. e possible AESA radar range, IRST, A2 A capabilities as certainly it has A2G capabilities.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

What happened on 26 th shows importance of SAMs especially neat hot borders. The 26 th Feb clearly shows the shortcomings regarding our AD via capable SAM network, we even have medium range SAMs only to protect particular sites. The scenario is changing we should have short to medium range batteries near all our borders only few in numbers can cover sufficient areas. Apparently we have so far done nothing apart from getting few radars from China/Others.
We should immediately get few batteries of HQ16b with 70+KM range along with HQ7 batteries should immediately deploy them along Kashmir and allied borders.

On other side after 27 th Feb Indian response is more professional one they have started to acquire long range BVR missiles along with upgrades on the fighter jet fleet. But they have immediately addressed the issue of BVRs and perhaps shall be installing encrypted secured communication systems . In next skirmish or conflict PAF shall face jets with better ranged BVRs, hard to jam radars as most likely AESA and secured communication system.

On other hand it shall be appreciable if some one can elaborate capabilities of coming J15 i. e possible AESA radar range, IRST, A2 A capabilities as certainly it has A2G capabilities.

This is what I fear. Our establishments and people stuck in 27 Feb. Where as the enemy has learned and adapted to the situation. I dont see PAF and PA doing anything to prepare for a more cohesive attack.

May I remind everyone here how shameful it is for enemy jets to fly so far into Pakistan without being shot down. On top of that they also escaped back into India. A proper reaction would have been to shoot them all down as soon as they crossed the borders. How is PA addressing this? Or are they going to let Indian jets reach Peshawar next time. Just like the good old days when the Indians bombed Peshawar airport. Utterly shameful

 

[Scorpio]

Thanks sir for answering, agree 27th turn out above of our expectations plus gift of 2 jets (sure it god external help)
But sir my concern is indian failures of 26 feb, mau we call limitations of skill or fear of PAF but eventually it was god help thay make these fools blind thay cant do any thing. But sir we must accepts our response was too late have no connection with there failure on 26 th

That was my concerned point we forget 26th just remember 27th feb in this post, why

 

[Caprxl]

Brother, but what about 26th feb, were we ready? is intel let us prepare on specific day ?, or 26th Indian jet failed due our forces actions ? The answer in NO it was entirely Gods act in our favour and dont know how many prayers of our elders

about 26th feb,

1. were we ready?
2. is intel let us prepare on specific day ?,
3. or 26th Indian jet failed due our forces actions ?
4. Gods act in our favour,
5. prayers of our elders

How about All of above is True?? Do you remember Imran Khan in his speech on 26th, Feb, 2020, Praising ISI & letting it out that WE (Pakistan) already knew they were coming 3 days ago?

The answer in NO it was entirely Gods act in our favour and dont know how many prayers of our elders

Agreed, well just as @Mastankhan says, "audentes fortuna iuvat" i.e " Fortune Favors the Brave "

But sure, we can agree to disagree, Like said before i was also of the opinion(am still to a far less degree than before) that we should have Kicked their Backs on 26th, but after knowing few facts...

Well in the end we are Humans & not Perfect, will learn from our mistakes &polish n evolve our strategies.

 

[Khafee]

What happened on 26 th shows importance of SAMs especially neat hot borders. The 26 th Feb clearly shows the shortcomings regarding our AD via capable SAM network, we even have medium range SAMs only to protect particular sites. The scenario is changing we should have short to medium range batteries near all our borders only few in numbers can cover sufficient areas. Apparently we have so far done nothing apart from getting few radars from China/Others.
We should immediately get few batteries of HQ16b with 70+KM range along with HQ7 batteries should immediately deploy them along Kashmir and allied borders.

On other side after 27 th Feb Indian response is more professional one they have started to acquire long range BVR missiles along with upgrades on the fighter jet fleet. But they have immediately addressed the issue of BVRs and perhaps shall be installing encrypted secured communication systems . In next skirmish or conflict PAF shall face jets with better ranged BVRs, hard to jam radars as most likely AESA and secured communication system.

On other hand it shall be appreciable if some one can elaborate capabilities of coming J15 i. e possible AESA radar range, IRST, A2 A capabilities as certainly it has A2G capabilities.

What would you say if PAF got 5batteries of HQ9? Hypothetical question of-course

 

[Mastankhan]

J-20 and JF-17Blk3 are a generation apart.

Hi,

Indeed they are a generation apart but then having an F22 or an F35 radar and ew package on an F15 eagle EX would give it monstrous powers---not in the same spectrum but as close that one can get from one gen tier jump from the visible to the invisible spectrum---.

about 26th feb,

1. were we ready?
2. is intel let us prepare on specific day ?,
3. or 26th Indian jet failed due our forces actions ?
4. Gods act in our favour,
5. prayers of our elders

How about All of above is True?? Do you remember Imran Khan in his speech on 26th, Feb, 2020, Praising ISI & letting it out that WE (Pakistan) already knew they were coming 3 days ago?



Agreed, well just as @Mastankhan says, "audentes fortuna iuvat" i.e " Fortune Favors the Brave "

But sure, we can agree to disagree, Like said before i was also of the opinion(am still to a far less degree than before) that we should have Kicked their Backs on 26th, but after knowing few facts...

Well in the end we are Humans & not Perfect, will learn from our mistakes &polish n evolve our strategies.

Hi,

India had already declared war by making an open statement of striking targets inside of pakistan before the actual strike happened on the 26th---.

The problem over here regarding the Paf's reaction is that against India---the retaliation had to be in the visible spectrum---.

India is a nation that does not accept subtleties / things done behind the veil---even if they have severely damaged them---because they believe that a damage that is hidden and not known to the public is of NO CONSEQUENCE---.

The Paf has yet to learn in how to fight this enemy---. This enemy needs to be shown the defeat in public---every aspect of the action has to be made visible in a spectrum that can be seen by the enemy public---.

This enemy reacts very badly to publicly visible defeats---it tears them up emotionally and creates big fear in their psyche---.

That is where the Paf has always failed to do their job---. They keep acting where they think they are hurting the enemy more---and that needs to be changed to where the enemy thinks that it has been hurt more---.

If Paf had shot the 7 or 8 other aircraft that slipped away due to DELAYED PERMISSION---the indians would have had no place to hide their faces all over the world---. That shame alone would have decimated them on the world forum---because they had made big big claims to the world----and the Paf let them off the hook just like that---.

Very very poor decision making by the Paf generals---absolutely being on the level of 'being pathetic'.

 

[Caprxl]

May I remind everyone here how shameful it is for enemy jets to fly so far into Pakistan

Did they ?? You sure brother? Here are two points to think over and then access the facts;

• "They are claiming that they remained in the Pakistani airspace for 21 minutes and killed 350 terrorists. They claim that the second strike was in Muzaffarabad and the third in Chakothi. "Allah almighty is the greatest and we should not make tall claims, but come and try to spend 21 minutes in Pakistani airspace," challenged Maj Gen Ghafoor.

• In the documentary Invincible Resolve, please watch from 10:52 to 11:55 Listen to Shehzad Chaudhry at 11:01 & Kaisar Tufail at 11:40, both ex-PAF.

So brothers, positive criticism is welcomed but facts also need to be seen. SOW, Stand Of Weapons ..

Summary of Maj Gen Ghafoor, Shehzad Chaudhry & Kaisar Tufail on IAF Intrusion & use of SOW.

Maj Gen Ghafoor ex- DG ISPR:

1. Allah is GREAT.
2. India should come & try to Stay in Pakistan Airspace for 21 minutes.

"Meaning from Day one, it was known IAF used SOW across LOC & did not come on Balakot"​

Shehzad Chaudhry :

1. IAF comes in about 1km - 2km across LOC & Turned around trying to get away after dropping Bombs (SOW).
2. It is not difficult to intrude 2-3 km inside enemy Air Space imagining Aircraft flying sub-sonic they would intrude this much while taking 180 turn BUT not at the cost of ACCURACY.

Kaisar Tufail:

1. It was not a conventional bombing that they had come over Balakot & bombed.
2. If they had come over Balakot ofcourse we would have intercepted them.
3. The bombs were lobbed 45-50 km away i.e on LOC.

Links:

Transcript of DG ISPR Press Conference : https://www.dawn.com/news/1466161
DG ISPR Press Conference : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppc--qD1L4
Invincible Resolve | Operation Swift Retort : https://youtu.be/J-vYtEqu1MQ
Shehzad Chaudhry on IAF Intrusion : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-vYtEqu1MQ&feature=youtu.be&t=652
Kaisar Tufail on SOW Launch from 45-50 KM away from Balakot : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-vYtEqu1MQ&feature=youtu.be&t=699

You can see distance of Balakot from LOC in following image, you can use google maps yourself as well to confirm the distance.

 

[Caprxl]

Hi,

India had already declared war by making an open statement of striking targets inside of pakistan before the actual strike happened on the 26th---.

The problem over here regarding the Paf's reaction is that against India---the retaliation had to be in the visible spectrum---.

India is a nation that does not accept subtleties / things done behind the veil---even if they have severely damaged them---because they believe that a damage that is hidden and not known to the public is of NO CONSEQUENCE---.

The Paf has yet to learn in how to fight this enemy---. This enemy needs to be shown the defeat in public---every aspect of the action has to be made visible in a spectrum that can be seen by the enemy public---.

This enemy reacts very badly to publicly visible defeats---it tears them up emotionally and creates big fear in their psyche---.

That is where the Paf has always failed to do their job---. They keep acting where they think they are hurting the enemy more---and that needs to be changed to where the enemy thinks that it has been hurt more---.

Agreed 100%, cannot add anything to it. Well explained, Indinas dont have the morals or Psyche of a Typical nemesis. They wont accept their loss/es easily.

If Paf had shot the 7 or 8 other aircraft that slipped away due to DELAYED PERMISSION---the indians would have had no place to hide their faces all over the world---. That shame alone would have decimated them on the world forum---because they had made big big claims to the world----and the Paf let them off the hook just like that---.

Very very poor decision making by the Paf generals---absolutely being on the level of 'being pathetic'.

Well, there are two sides of the coins on this one, 2 or 9 . For me, something middle would have been fine. Your arguments are all True, no denying in it. The thing is what were the chances of India going full Throttle if we had gone at 9 AC (well they went on defcon 4 anyway). I am not going against you but am unable to quantify & outweigh Shooting 9 IAF Ac down against Preventing a WAR.

What were the Chances on paper?? Probability?

Well, worry not, plenty more chances will come for sure, you know better than anybody. Maywe learn from our Mistakes. Amen.

 

[Khafee]

Remember as @Khafee mentioned multiple times, Pakistan Armed Forces has plans in place for emergency situations specifically PAF; "Redundancy & Contingency"




Provide Allah's help;

1. Swift Retort was a magician's Trick among money hidden up his sleeve, a card from deck of many ??
2. A Magician Never reveal his secret (for those of us who might think we have exposed too much of ours in return for too little of theirs)

Well for short term or in emergency situation, we are good, BUT i agree with concerns shown by both of you, so for the long term comes Khafee Leaks along with block 3. It will be sufficient for us until Azm. Though great in quantity India's Resources are not infinite. What men have to do is to get maximum out of the resources they have & for this Alhumdulillah we have

"Men at Their BEST"

True sir, since 1947 allah has special karam on us, although from day one we have number of ghadar in our line, still thay are getting stronge but it was allah who saved us form them .

But someone taking our ememy not seriously due to few stupid agents in our line can cause sometong even worst like east pakistan

I have trust on our forces jawans and allah help, but duwa kay sath dawiee bhee too liani haa

This thread might interest you gentlemen.

Who were these Brave Men, who changed History?

Who were these Brave Men, who changed History? They rode in to battle, with nothing more than their faith. Their equipment was lacking, the enemy was overwhelming, the odds were against them, but they stood for what they believed in, and achieved what every soldier not only wishes, but prays...

world-defense.com

 

[Khafee]

Did they ?? You sure brother? Here are two points to think over and then access the facts;

• "They are claiming that they remained in the Pakistani airspace for 21 minutes and killed 350 terrorists. They claim that the second strike was in Muzaffarabad and the third in Chakothi. "Allah almighty is the greatest and we should not make tall claims, but come and try to spend 21 minutes in Pakistani airspace," challenged Maj Gen Ghafoor.

• In the documentary Invincible Resolve, please watch from 10:52 to 11:55 Listen to Shehzad Chaudhry at 11:01 & Kaisar Tufail at 11:40, both ex-PAF.

So brothers, positive criticism is welcomed but facts also need to be seen. SOW, Stand Of Weapons ..

Please post a link to that video as well as a summary of what they said.

Secondly, I can personally confirm that the Spice2000's failed, were recovered intact, and Pak got a nice in depth look into it.