Acquisition of J-15 for PAF- Air Superiority & Deep Strike Platfrom

[Ziaulislam]

Making SMQ the FM was a big mistake. From day one all the signs of an imminent catastrophe were there, including his antics during MBS's visit, but as usual, complacency by the state insured that the catastrophe happened.

i agree Pakistanis are stupid to think that someone would sacrifice their national interest for ours..
why do we still expect other countries to support Kashmir cause is beyond me..
we should simply keep our game up with respect to Kashmir and let other people do what's good for them ..
our goal should be to strengthen Pakistan and in turn that will strengthen Kashmir cause rather than going around creating more frenemies and enemies

OIC is so much fratcured that there is no point to it anymore..
its not just the sunni-shia fratcure
we also hve
1. an arab-ajam fracture seen in case of turkey
2. we have arab -partial arabs(not true arabs) fracture in africa
3. then we have Pakistan with fractures with Kabul and Bangladesh

i would say just dissolve it..OIC was created for the Palestinian cause and that cause is dead now..

its died a few decades ago......., now it is buried, in fact it is long-buried and forgotten ........

 

[Khafee]

i agree Pakistanis are stupid to think that someone would sacrifice their national interest for ours..
why do we still expect other countries to support Kashmir cause is beyond me..
we should simply keep our game up with respect to Kashmir and let other people do what's good for them ..
our goal should be to strengthen Pakistan and in turn that will strengthen Kashmir cause rather than going around creating more frenemies and enemies

OIC is so much fratcured that there is no point to it anymore..
its not just the sunni-shia fratcure
we also hve
1. an arab-ajam fracture seen in case of turkey
2. we have arab -partial arabs(not true arabs) fracture in africa
3. then we have Pakistan with fractures with Kabul and Bangladesh

i would say just dissolve it..OIC was created for the Palestinian cause and that cause is dead now..

its died a few decades ago......., now it is buried, in fact it is long-buried and forgotten ........

Especially, when at every juncture in time, Pakistanis have waved the white flag. Be it Gulf War 1, or Yemen.

Pakistanis seem to be oblivious to the concept of Quid Pro Quo.

 

[Ziaulislam]

Especially, when at every juncture in time, Pakistanis have waved the white flag. Be it Gulf War 1, or Yemen.

Pakistanis seem to be oblivious to the concept of Quid Pro Quo.

Its not our fault that arabs like in fighting so much.
Problem is arab league is weak and has been on issue of palestine ..that has led to people exploit it ..be it jordan incident squashed with help of zia, saddam or eygpt doing what it wants..

Even today UAE decides something without saudis and other gulf countries .

 

[Khafee]

Its not our fault that arabs like in fighting so much.
Problem is arab league is weak and has been on issue of palestine ..that has led to people exploit it ..be it jordan incident squashed with help of zia, saddam or eygpt doing what it wants..

Even today UAE decides something without saudis and other gulf countries .

Very easy to deflect. Nonetheless, what ever your silly excuses, if you cant return a favour, aka Quid Pro Quo, expecting anything in return, is not only childish, but seriously stupid.

 

[Invictus]

Isn't this J-15 thread?
Doesn't feel like we're discussion the fighter
Anymore

 

[Ziaulislam]

Very easy to deflect. Nonetheless, what ever your silly excuses, if you cant return a favour, aka Quid Pro Quo, expecting anything in return, is not only childish, but seriously stupid.

I agree.

We shouldnt expect any help for arab countries.

Security support to any arab country should be transactional and if any, against a non arab player. But this is now irrelevant ..arabs no longer have any non arab foe.

Today israel is better friend to arab countries then either iran or turkey.

Pakistan will not be able to step in a war
With turkey and will hesitate if its iran.

So both sides should revisit their policies.

We shouldnt provide any help in arabs "in fighting" as there is no way to figure out who is right or wrong. And arabs should nt provide any non transactional help to pakistan. We saw kashmir is already off the table (and most pakistanis are okay with it, we never expected help to begin with)

Our support for palestinian cause has nothing to do with arabs and should be decoupled from arabs...
and anyway it seems that at the end of the day arabs have abandone palestinians anyway, it will be spearheaded by turks and persians..it is just sad for palestinians as both turkey and persia have their own nefarious reasons.

It seems the quote arab blood isnt cheap is kinda lost in history

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Any more leaks about anything

Ceremony
Jets
Pictures
Etc etc??

 

[Counter-Errorist]

Its not our fault that arabs like in fighting so much.
Problem is arab league is weak and has been on issue of palestine ..that has led to people exploit it ..be it jordan incident squashed with help of zia, saddam or eygpt doing what it wants..

Even today UAE decides something without saudis and other gulf countries .

If you truly look in, most of these supposedly Arab vs Arab fighting is rather Arab vs Iranian Proxies.

 

[Red Nucleus]

Especially, when at every juncture in time, Pakistanis have waved the white flag. Be it Gulf War 1, or Yemen.

Pakistanis seem to be oblivious to the concept of Quid Pro Quo.

What exactly is the "quid pro quo" that was not given or reciprocated? Was there an expectation of troops/battalions, was it equipment or something else? I agree that the Yemen situation was mishandled and mucked up big time. Everything should have been done discretely and quietly instead of screaming about your misgivings in parliament and embarrassing your allies. I think Pakistan could have easily kept everyone happy while not stretching themselves too thin since we were just at the last stages of zarb e azb and probably had battle fatigue. Its just a matter of expectations and managing those.

But there must also be some pragmatism as to the expectations on both sides. What exactly did Saudi/UAE want from us that was supposedly refused? The problem is Pakistan and the Arab/Gulf countries can go around in circles saying, "well we did such and such for you in the past now you help us with this etc" Historically they have both helped each other at some time point in time during times of need and we all look at our contributions through our own biased lenses. Instead of being emotional, all sides must be pragmatic and clearly lay out what can the other provide and what are the expectations in return and then, inshallah, come to some type of reasonable agreement.

We should forget about getting help on Kashmir from others; that is our issue and will remain our issue. Forget about the OIC and quite frankly any other Muslim country as no one will be willing to commit any troops or anything of value if war ever broke out over Kashmir. It is disappointing, however, that even simple statements of support are so difficult to obtain.

Iran has been a royal pain ever since the Shah was deposed and has not been kind to Pakistan at all (Jadav, drugs, border issues, ratting us out with regard to the nuclear program) but they are our neighbors and we have sizable Shia population in Pakistan and that must be taken into consideration. They have this hubris which is baffling. I don't care at all who is Shia/Sunni but given Irans treatment of Pakistan in the recent past I say we keep them at arms length and be cordial but blunt and strong with them as well.

 

[Khafee]

If you truly look in, most of these supposedly Arab vs Arab fighting is rather Arab vs Iranian Proxies.

He expects "Persians" to fight for Palestinians. That should tell you something.

 

[Khafee]

What exactly is the "quid pro quo" that was not given or reciprocated? Was there an expectation of troops/battalions, was it equipment or something else? I agree that the Yemen situation was mishandled and mucked up big time. Everything should have been done discretely and quietly instead of screaming about your misgivings in parliament and embarrassing your allies. I think Pakistan could have easily kept everyone happy while not stretching themselves too thin since we were just at the last stages of zarb e azb and probably had battle fatigue. Its just a matter of expectations and managing those.

But there must also be some pragmatism as to the expectations on both sides. What exactly did Saudi/UAE want from us that was supposedly refused? The problem is Pakistan and the Arab/Gulf countries can go around in circles saying, "well we did such and such for you in the past now you help us with this etc" Historically they have both helped each other at some time point in time during times of need and we all look at our contributions through our own biased lenses. Instead of being emotional, all sides must be pragmatic and clearly lay out what can the other provide and what are the expectations in return and then, inshallah, come to some type of reasonable agreement.

We should forget about getting help on Kashmir from others; that is our issue and will remain our issue. Forget about the OIC and quite frankly any other Muslim country as no one will be willing to commit any troops or anything of value if war ever broke out over Kashmir. It is disappointing, however, that even simple statements of support are so difficult to obtain.

Iran has been a royal pain ever since the Shah was deposed and has not been kind to Pakistan at all (Jadav, drugs, border issues, ratting us out with regard to the nuclear program) but they are our neighbors and we have sizable Shia population in Pakistan and that must be taken into consideration. They have this hubris which is baffling. I don't care at all who is Shia/Sunni but given Irans treatment of Pakistan in the recent past I say we keep them at arms length and be cordial but blunt and strong with them as well.

Being held hostage to a minority will always insure Pakistan is at the loosing end. I have been saying this all my life, and now when Paksitan desperately needs support on Kashmir, not surprisingly, no one really wants to bother.

 

[Mumin]

Being held hostage to a minority will always insure Pakistan is at the loosing end. I have been saying this all my life, and now when Paksitan desperately needs support on Kashmir, not surprisingly, no one really wants to bother.

I don’t sound to be rude , but when actually someone did support Kashmir ? Arab Leauge or OIC OR anyone else ? Kashmir is a lost cause, feel sorry for them.

 

[Khafee]

I don’t sound to be rude , but when actually someone did support Kashmir ? Arab Leauge or OIC OR anyone else ? Kashmir is a lost cause, feel sorry for them.

And somehow it is everyone's fault except Pakistan?


Shireen Mazari criticises Foreign Office on Kashmir strategy
August 15, 2020
View attachment 16033
Minister for Human Rights Shireen Mazari on Saturday criticised the Foreign Office in failing to carry forward Prime Minister Imran Khan’s narrative on Kashmir.

In an astonishing rebuke of the FO, she said that it had "let Kashmiris and Prime Minister Imran Khan down" in their struggle for the Kashmir cause.

Addressing a function in Islamabad, Mazari said that it was through the prime minister's "single-handed efforts" that the narrative surrounding Kashmir changed in the global arena.

"If the Foreign Office had carried forward the prime minister's narrative, the situation would have been vastly different today," said the minister.
Mazari said that no matter the world's politics, had the Foreign Office taken action, the world would certainly have listened to Pakistan on the issue.

"But our diplomats chose leisurely hotel stays, dressing in three-piece suits and heavily starched clothes and speaking over the telephone," she added.

The human rights minister questioned how a country like Burkina Faso "has more diplomatic clout" than Pakistan, as it managed to get a resolution passed by the United Nations Human Rights Council against police brutality in the United States in the wake of protests against George Flyod's murder.

Mazari said we have to move away from traditional diplomacy and for that we need to adopt modern methods.
"The Kashmiri struggle is a just struggle. Indian occupation forces are using the debasement of women as a political tool," said the minister.
She said our response in the matter needs a major revamp if our voice against such atrocities is to go to the far reaches of the world.
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Pls continue this discussion here:

Pakistan approaches Riyadh for renewal of $3.2b oil facility

What good is a visit, when no conrete steps have been taken, by GoP, and the bottom line is "Hi Hello." Do you honestly think "this time around" it will achieve anything? Alot of the social media journalists are saying that pressure on Pakistan to recognize Israel has increased in past 2 years...

world-defense.com

 

[Mumin]

I am not saying that , Pakistan hasn’t helped much either. If anything they made it more messier. They had no proper plan, you can’t be like let’s go to war & win it.

And somehow it is everyone's fault except Pakistan?

 

[capricorn5192]

@Khafee you mentioned in JH-7 thread that " When deliveres grind to a halt (excluding the ones that are ready)", were you referring to those J-15s one of whom satellite image is circulating on social media)?