General Opinion Thread

[Berke2]

Another advice for Muslims, work to develop Muslim nations and integrating Islam into modern society to make Muslim nations a safe haven and place of refugee for each other. Don't get too caught up into the social trends in Europe or elsewhere, they always have phases where there are far right trends. You shouldn't get yourself involved and let the local majority mostly deal with that. We never had anything to do with world war one or world war two or other internal social conflicts in Europe. It's not our region, why add stress and problems of pretending like we should fix stuff there? Especially with endless list of problems in Muslim nations?

Isn't what we ideally hope for is a developed and modern Muslim world where religion is not separated from church? So invest in those countries of origins of yours and if you are able maybe purchase property there. One day you will be able to use your attained skills into use in your countries of origin. Similar to how the Jews of Europe left to the USA or Palestine, we may one day move to Muslim nations even if we weren't born there.

As an American Palestinian born in the US, if Palestine wasn't under occupation I wouldn't mind living there. Because I see the Middle East as having lots of potential, since they are still developing. And it is beautiful land with lots of sites to see. I hope to see a day where the Middle East and Asian Muslim countries advance in all fields, develop more modern mindset and practice Islam rightly and be good to one another.

But regarding Europe and its internal politics, don't get yourself involved as a minority and let the majority people deal with these trends. We have nothing to do with Europe or their problems. And we have no reason to try changing people there regardless. We DO have an obligation to better the Middle East and Asian Muslim nations to make them a place of refugee for future Muslims who want to live in religious and modern society.

I get what you're saying. I personally want to move to Pakistan somewhere in the next 10 years too. Just need to set a few things in order as I don't want to be financially broke there lol.

 

[Berke2]

Pakistan: Shia community march on US consulate over Soleimani death | Video Ruptly

Shia Muslims held a massive protest in front of the US consulate in Karachi on Sunday, over the assassination of Iranian Quds Force General Qasem Soleimani in a US airstrike. Thousands of demonstrators chanted slogans and marched with pictures of Soleimani. Some children sat on US and Israeli...

ruptly.tv

So Pakistani shias did a protest march over the death of that shaytan Soleimani. If a religious scholar of theirs got annilated then I may have given some leeway here. But Soleimani was an Iranian general, he pushed the interests of Iran, exactly why do they need to shout "death to america" for him? Or try to cause damage at the US consulate. I mean it's not like Pakistan got struck. Khameini wouldn't give two hoots about these people, all they are is useful cannon fodder for his militias in places like Syria.

I really hope the pakistani intelligence agencies are watching this. Once you're forming loyalty for Iran then there's a big problem.

 

[Scorpion]

Pakistan: Shia community march on US consulate over Soleimani death | Video Ruptly

Shia Muslims held a massive protest in front of the US consulate in Karachi on Sunday, over the assassination of Iranian Quds Force General Qasem Soleimani in a US airstrike. Thousands of demonstrators chanted slogans and marched with pictures of Soleimani. Some children sat on US and Israeli...

ruptly.tv

So Pakistani shias did a protest march over the death of that shaytan Soleimani. If a religious scholar of theirs got annilated then I may have given some leeway here. But Soleimani was an Iranian general, he pushed the interests of Iran, exactly why do they need to shout "death to america" for him? Or try to cause damage at the US consulate. I mean it's not like Pakistan got struck. Khameini wouldn't give two hoots about these people, all they are is useful cannon fodder for his militias in places like Syria.

I really hope the pakistani intelligence agencies are watching this. Once you're forming loyalty for Iran then there's a big problem.

Here it comes. I mentioned this few days ago.

 

[TomCat]

Pakistan: Shia community march on US consulate over Soleimani death | Video Ruptly

Shia Muslims held a massive protest in front of the US consulate in Karachi on Sunday, over the assassination of Iranian Quds Force General Qasem Soleimani in a US airstrike. Thousands of demonstrators chanted slogans and marched with pictures of Soleimani. Some children sat on US and Israeli...

ruptly.tv

So Pakistani shias did a protest march over the death of that shaytan Soleimani. If a religious scholar of theirs got annilated then I may have given some leeway here. But Soleimani was an Iranian general, he pushed the interests of Iran, exactly why do they need to shout "death to america" for him? Or try to cause damage at the US consulate. I mean it's not like Pakistan got struck. Khameini wouldn't give two hoots about these people, all they are is useful cannon fodder for his militias in places like Syria.

I really hope the pakistani intelligence agencies are watching this. Once you're forming loyalty for Iran then there's a big problem.

Exactly.
That tool has been used for years to cause civil unrest.

Shia community of Pakistan should come out of the delusion that anything to iran is anything to shia sect which is wrong !!!

 

[TomCat]

Here it comes. I mentioned this few days ago.

Hey, they are over exaggerating the protest, it was tiny !!! @Berke2

 

[Scorpion]

Hey, they are over exaggerating the protest, it was tiny !!! @Berke2

Iran might use Shia Pakistanis to attack the US embassy in Pakistan. < for future reference.

 

[TomCat]

Iran might use Shia Pakistanis to attack the US embassy in Pakistan. < for future reference.

Remember, what you are suggesting could be even in a form of false flag by someone else while naming themselves Shia. Pakistan has a history of being target of false flags.

Such a cowardice act will benefit USA on multiple fronts

- Fuel Sectarian hate within Pak which is at its lowest Alhamdullilah at the moment

- Dragging Pak into conflict

- Blaming Pakistan and accusing them on international media

- If the situation escalates even further, CPEC will be affected as many large scale projects are in Gwadar and Balochistan which is on iran border as well as south east Afghanistan (South east afg is under kabul regime hence the presence of US forces to destabilize pak)

- GCC has no say in the matter as of now and i just Pray that Iran doesn’t scare away from usa just to blame GCC (KSA, UAE, Kuwait). These countries aren’t involved in anything which is related to the current conflict.

I seriously pray that USA if goes to war with iran, doesn’t operate from KSA bases since such a move will tactically damage KSA to unthinkable extent. Iran will happily target USA on KSA and thus trying to fulfill dual objectives. KSA must play seriously and stay out of this as well as UAE.

USA is shit and they are scums. They are playing with all, it’s a game to destabilize everyone because they know the potential of this region if it isn’t destabilized.

Pakistan must remain neutral and Stay alert more than ever since all this drama seems to be connecting some dots that they are leading eventually against Pakistan. We have India more heated than ever at Kashmir. Afghanistan is messing around a bit more than usual these days and same goes for iran border. Afghan talks are in a halt and doesn’t seem to bear any fruit in near future.

I Pray that Allah keeps our Countries safe from the bad, make us wise and Powerful enough to take OUR OWN DECISIONS.

If only Iran and KSA comes on table, this region could come back better which I don’t see happening.

@Lieutenant @UAE @Falcon29

 

[Scorpion]

...

Iran's expansionism policy must cease otherwise this will keep ongoing. Do you see Saudi Arabia elsewhere? In Iraq? Syria? Yemen? Lebanon? Shia crescent was firstly discovered by Jordan and Jordan warned the rest of the Arab countries but no one cares at that time and here is the outcome as you see it happening. Now we are basically fighting back. I doubt Saudi Arabia will allow its bases to be used by self or the US in aggression against Iran. We have no beef in this fight but if Iran thinks about hurting Saudi Arabia or any GCC state, Saudi Arabia will play its role in protecting itself and standing by its allies. If Iran strikes any US presence in the Gulf or anywhere, the US can use its bases in Iraq, Afghanistan to strike back and maybe use its base in Qatar which is the largest US base outside its borders. I honestly believe that Iran might try to target Saudi Arabia just like they did a month ago by hitting out oil facilities which will not go unpunishable for sure. We are then going to find ourselves involved one way or another. If shits hit the fan, it will be a fast pace war to take Iran out once and for all.

 

[Lieutenant]

Remember, what you are suggesting could be even in a form of false flag by someone else while naming themselves Shia. Pakistan has a history of being target of false flags.

Such a cowardice act will benefit USA on multiple fronts

- Fuel Sectarian hate within Pak which is at its lowest Alhamdullilah at the moment

- Dragging Pak into conflict

- Blaming Pakistan and accusing them on international media

- If the situation escalates even further, CPEC will be affected as many large scale projects are in Gwadar and Balochistan which is on iran border as well as south east Afghanistan (South east afg is under kabul regime hence the presence of US forces to destabilize pak)

- GCC has no say in the matter as of now and i just Pray that Iran doesn’t scare away from usa just to blame GCC (KSA, UAE, Kuwait). These countries aren’t involved in anything which is related to the current conflict.

I seriously pray that USA if goes to war with iran, doesn’t operate from KSA bases since such a move will tactically damage KSA to unthinkable extent. Iran will happily target USA on KSA and thus trying to fulfill dual objectives. KSA must play seriously and stay out of this as well as UAE.

USA is shit and they are scums. They are playing with all, it’s a game to destabilize everyone because they know the potential of this region if it isn’t destabilized.

Pakistan must remain neutral and Stay alert more than ever since all this drama seems to be connecting some dots that they are leading eventually against Pakistan. We have India more heated than ever at Kashmir. Afghanistan is messing around a bit more than usual these days and same goes for iran border. Afghan talks are in a halt and doesn’t seem to bear any fruit in near future.

I Pray that Allah keeps our Countries safe from the bad, make us wise and Powerful enough to take OUR OWN DECISIONS.

If only Iran and KSA comes on table, this region could come back better which I don’t see happening.

@Lieutenant @UAE @Falcon29

Let's assume for the sake of argument a war erupted in the region, will Pakistan's maritime patrol in the gulf and sea of Oman be called off?

 

[TomCat]

Iran's expansionism policy must cease otherwise this will keep ongoing. Do you see Saudi Arabia elsewhere? In Iraq? Syria? Yemen? Lebanon? Shia crescent was firstly discovered by Jordan and Jordan warned the rest of the Arab countries but no one cares at that time and here is the outcome as you see it happening. Now we are basically fighting back. I doubt Saudi Arabia will allow its bases to be used by self or the US in aggression against Iran. We have no beef in this fight but if Iran thinks about hurting Saudi Arabia or any GCC state, Saudi Arabia will play its role in protecting itself and standing by its allies. If Iran strikes any US presence in the Gulf or anywhere, the US can use its bases in Iraq, Afghanistan to strike back and maybe use its base in Qatar which is the largest US base outside its borders. I honestly believe that Iran might try to target Saudi Arabia just like they did a month ago by hitting out oil facilities which will not go unpunishable for sure. We are then going to find ourselves involved one way or another. If shits hit the fan, it will be a fast pace war to take Iran out once and for all.

I do get creeps from iran sometimes due to their silence. They have highly functional strategic arms such as BMs and CMs. I only wish they don’t possess NWs already !!!

 

[TomCat]

Let's assume for the sake of argument a war erupted in the region, will Pakistan's maritime patrol in the gulf and sea of Oman be called off?

That is a tough question with no specifications.

Depends on the situation as to who are involved in the conflict, what sort of warfare is taking place.

In general, the arabian sea, Hormouz and Gulf of Oman will be declared an unsafe zone and routes will be disrupted for civil/military vessels.Who wants their ships to be in waters where iran can sink it (mistakenly or even intentionally by naming it as a mistake). This includes Pak Navy as well as we don’t want to lose our ships to some stupid conflict between yanks and persians.

We are already short of vessels given the might IN in the area.

I do believe that if USA gets involved directly, hormouz and Gulf of Oman will have multiple US subs. And by subs, i mean the serious ones.

Ohh wait, the threat is not only iran but USA as well. They have in past, fakes mistake attacks on civil aircrafts, ships, who knows they wouldn’t launch torpedos on any of the surrounding countries vessels such as PN, KSA Navy.

@Signalian and @Mastankhan Are the men to give the best answer

 

[Berke2]

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I don't think Pakistan should stay neutral. We do have a lot of problems already what with India in the east and a rocky relationship with the afghan puppet government. Perhaps act as if we are neutral towards Iran in public but in private I think we should take an anti-Iran stance and help the arabs. We have been walking on egg shells for Iran for quite a while and still they do stupid actions in Pakistan like recruit our shia to fight in Syria (who will deal with these sectarian fighters when they return all battle hardened?). Or they train target killers to operate in karachi and target sunni scholars? Someone on this forum said the ayotollah in Qom may even tell their Pakistani contacts to vote in elections for sunni parties who are pretty anti-shia, although I can't confirm or provide proof for this last statement, if that is true then that means they are trying to cause infighting in Pakistan. And also in our last stand off in India, they took India's side and made anti-pakistan statements. I'm pretty sure it was Soleimani actually who made those statements.

We are a nation who are 80% sunni. Many pakistanis might not care about those ayotollahs and their religion. But us being sunnis will always be a problem to them. They will never stop the taqiyya or trying to expand into our lands. How can we be neutral to such people? I have not been raised in an anti-shia household, nor did I have anti-shia friends growing up. In fact when I was 18, I was pro unity with shias and I said to my friend that I would be okay with marrying a shia and I was quite friendly towards Iran too. But then I met a religious south asian shia who was also a khameinist and boy this guy opened my eyes. I started reading on religion, on politics, accessing the situation, I also hung around shia forums like shiachat to see their views. And quite frankly what I have learnt is that unless you fully accept shiaism with open arms, they will not leave you alone. Disagree with it and you will be called a wahaabi. Unfortunately Iran is ruled by an ayotollah and he follows this to the letter. He will not leave us alone. We need to take lessons from history like the afghan and Iraq wars. Iran helped America invade those two sunni ruled countries and overthrew their leadership. If they get a similar chance in Pakistan, they would do the same.

At the very least I believe Pakistan needs to covertly fund dawah programs in Pakistan against shiaism and arab countries need to fund the similar projects. Don't fight Iran, don't send any soldiers, don't take public stances. I'm not asking for war. But this is something that needs to be tackled. Shiaism cannot stand an intellectual challenge. People like this - -need to be funded. Because twelever shiaism is the route problem here. Tackle it successfully and you can peacefully remove the problem. Watch that video, it's harmless, it's just a nice religious debunking of shiaism and insha'Allah it bring people out of shiaism. You can spread videos of iranian shia being racist towards arabs or pakistanis. For example there irgc videos of Iranians taking the mick out of arab kids and attacking their race. There's much you can do to change the opinions of common people.

Problems have different solutions. I believe dawah is one of the main solutions here. Another solution is obviously conflict but that is a much more dangerous solution in eyes as they do not want open war with Iran.

 

[TomCat]

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I don't think Pakistan should stay neutral. We do have a lot of problems already what with India in the east and a rocky relationship with the afghan puppet government. Perhaps act as if we are neutral towards Iran in public but in private I think we should take an anti-Iran stance and help the arabs. We have been walking on egg shells for Iran for quite a while and still they do stupid actions in Pakistan like recruit our shia to fight in Syria (who will deal with these sectarian fighters when they return all battle hardened?). Or they train target killers to operate in karachi and target sunni scholars? Someone on this forum said the ayotollah in Qom may even tell their Pakistani contacts to vote in elections for sunni parties who are pretty anti-shia, although I can't confirm or provide proof for this last statement, if that is true then that means they are trying to cause infighting in Pakistan. And also in our last stand off in India, they took India's side and made anti-pakistan statements. I'm pretty sure it was Soleimani actually who made those statements.

We are a nation who are 80% sunni. Many pakistanis might not care about those ayotollahs and their religion. But us being sunnis will always be a problem to them. They will never stop the taqiyya or trying to expand into our lands. How can we be neutral to such people? I have not been raised in an anti-shia household, nor did I have anti-shia friends growing up. In fact when I was 18, I was pro unity with shias and I said to my friend that I would be okay with marrying a shia and I was quite friendly towards Iran too. But then I met a religious south asian shia who was also a khameinist and boy this guy opened my eyes. I started reading on religion, on politics, accessing the situation, I also hung around shia forums like shiachat to see their views. And quite frankly what I have learnt is that unless you fully accept shiaism with open arms, they will not leave you alone. Disagree with it and you will be called a wahaabi. Unfortunately Iran is ruled by an ayotollah and he follows this to the letter. He will not leave us alone. We need to take lessons from history like the afghan and Iraq wars. Iran helped America invade those two sunni ruled countries and overthrew their leadership. If they get a similar chance in Pakistan, they would do the same.

At the very least I believe Pakistan needs to covertly fund dawah programs in Pakistan against shiaism and arab countries need to fund the similar projects. Don't fight Iran, don't send any soldiers, don't take public stances. I'm not asking for war. But this is something that needs to be tackled. Shiaism cannot stand an intellectual challenge. People like this - -need to be funded. Because twelever shiaism is the route problem here. Tackle it successfully and you can peacefully remove the problem. Watch that video, it's harmless, it's just a nice religious debunking of shiaism and insha'Allah it bring people out of shiaism. You can spread videos of iranian shia being racist towards arabs or pakistanis. For example there irgc videos of Iranians taking the mick out of arab kids and attacking their race. There's much you can do to change the opinions of common people.

Problems have different solutions. I believe dawah is one of the main solutions here. Another solution is obviously conflict but that is a much more dangerous solution in eyes as they do not want open war with Iran.

Hey bro,

You viewpoint was strongly biased and based on religion POV.

Now think again as if you are a General. Take strategics, threats around us, potential threats and how to counter them, and international relations.

Our help to Arabs would be limited to intelligence at such a conflict, however, like Gen Raheel said “ We won’t join yemen, but when it comes to haramain, you will see us in front of you”.

So Basically, not until iran causes some internal damage to KSA by means of BM or CM, and see what USA and KSA does in Retaliation, Pakistan wont come out openly and take sides.

If God forbid, iran tries some mischief with KSA, i see very much from Pakistan openly taking sides and providing limited help.

When we take sides, india will use that chance to assist iran in keeping Pakistan busier than ever on the east and north as well as sea.

So Pakistan is in quite a rough spot. But, to deter that, China might try to keep india busy from north or aksai chin, this way, everyone will get dragged into, leading eventually to WW3

 

[Berke2]

Hey bro,

You viewpoint was strongly biased and based on religion POV.

Now think again as if you are a General. Take strategics, threats around us, potential threats and how to counter them, and international relations.

Our help to Arabs would be limited to intelligence at such a conflict, however, like Gen Raheel said “ We won’t join yemen, but when it comes to haramain, you will see us in front of you”.

So Basically, not until iran causes some internal damage to KSA by means of BM or CM, and see what USA and KSA does in Retaliation, Pakistan wont come out openly and take sides.

If God forbid, iran tries some mischief with KSA, i see very much from Pakistan openly taking sides and providing limited help.

When we take sides, india will use that chance to assist iran in keeping Pakistan busier than ever on the east and north as well as sea.

So Pakistan is in quite a rough spot. But, to deter that, China might try to keep india busy from north or aksai chin, this way, everyone will get dragged into, leading eventually to WW3

I don't think I'm biased bro because I don't think I'm unfair towards shiaism. It took me a lot of time to get to the opinions I have. If we are to assess Iran's behaviour then shiaism is why these idiots are interfering in our countries.

I based my post mostly on an intellectual challenge towards Iran because sunni countries seem either unwilling or unable to do otherwise. In Pakistan's case it's a bit of both. I feel we are unable because of our threats like India but also I sense some unwillingless amongst people (although the tide of opinion seems to be turning against Iran in Pakistan). But you know intellectually challenging them won't mean war. It's something that can be done peacefully. I did mention India and afghanistan posing problems for us, so don't worry I understand these concerns.

In my opinion problems should be dealt with before they reach a dire state. And I don't mean war. I mean exactly what I said in my previous post. Challenge them intellectually, refute their propaganda, divide them with their differences etc...

 

[TomCat]

I don't think I'm biased bro because I don't think I'm unfair towards shiaism. It took me a lot of time to get to the opinions I have. If we are to assess Iran's behaviour then shiaism is why these idiots are interfering in our countries.

I based my post mostly on an intellectual challenge towards Iran because sunni countries seem either unwilling or unable to do otherwise. In Pakistan's case it's a bit of both. I feel we are unable because of our threats like India but also I sense some unwillingless amongst people (although the tide of opinion seems to be turning against Iran in Pakistan). But you know intellectually challenging them won't mean war. It's something that can be done peacefully. I did mention India and afghanistan posing problems for us, so don't worry I understand these concerns.

In my opinion problems should be dealt with before they reach a dire state. And I don't mean war. I mean exactly what I said in my previous post. Challenge them intellectually, refute their propaganda, divide them with their differences etc...

Bro, the filthy problem is that shia sect gets triggered when Iran faces problems in politics our strategics.

This is the problem and it is created by their leader. Those shia Muslims in Pakistan, many have more liking for iran as compared to Pak. This is the core issue that Pakistan hasn’t come out openly against Iran as such a move will cause extreme civil unrest. Apart from that, the reason that we don’t want trouble on our western border even more.

Shias in Pakistan must understand that Iran is not Shia and Shia is not iran. Anything happening to Iran must not be associated with the sect. This is the misconception.

As for The conflict, If Pakistan openly sides, it will have short and long term consequences.

If we Side with Arabs openly,

Short term : India will use that chance to support iran similarly to Mukti Bahini and formation if Bangladesh. Unrest on western borders.

Long term : Iran won’t get back to us (it isn’t even now thanks to it’s traitorous nature), they will give CPEC a hard time. India will further use them to fund filthy ops inside baloch.

If we side with iran AGAINST ARAB (which will never happen),

First of all, that would be extremely Backstabbing, however, I don’t see that happening and even counting that is stupid in this analysis. We would be siding with a country that has a history of playing naughty with you, and you just go to them in hope for a friendly future. The point to remember is “in hope”, doesn’t confirm iran’s post conflict stance and status with Pakistan and hence a risk.

Leaving the Arab arena would mean the end of our True helpful relations who have supported in bad times. We have millions of expats residing in Gulf, they come back and loss of remittances, over local population and chaos for jobs, resources and food for common people, hence increased crime rate. Economic growth sabotaged !!!

At the same time, Leaving Arabs truly on their own will definitely have an impact on their morales, and I can’t say anything in terms of military outcomes as that is complicated to think. KSA is HUGE, they need a very huge military in numbers to keep strong control but they lack numbers currently. However, against iran, numbers doesn’t matter as Iran isnt competent enough To send its huge force to Arab. So, the battle will be limited to BMs and CMs which are a big deal.

Pakistan’s presence in Arab is a MUST and should increase in Future with a possible foreign base acting as naval, air and land, somewhere around Aden.

———————————————————————

So in short, no sides, and sides shouldn’t be based on religious beef