JF-17 related news.

[BATMAN]

are these j-17 armed with SD-10...... only to frighten InAF?

 

[Caprxl]

There is no news yet on Block 1 and 2 upgradation

PAC is not sitting idle. As there not any major changes in the fuselage, the airframes are being built and fitted with available equipment. The equipment that is not yet ready will be fitted when that becomes available.

Agreed, it is as it is as you have said

 

[TomCat]

Agreed, it is as it is as you have said

I know that all this is kept secret due to prioritised responsibility of Security, But to an enthusiast like me, I really get mad at all this.

Can’t even boast about a capability with broad chest as I myself don’t know about us as we aren’t USA or France or UK who openly declare what they have (even if understated)

 

[Caprxl]

I know that all this is kept secret due to prioritised responsibility of Security, But to an enthusiast like me, I really get mad at all this.

Can’t even boast about a capability with wide chest as I myself don’t know as we aren’t USA or France or UK who openly declare what they have (even if understated)

Cent per cent what you have said is the case & I agree. Even those powers do not let show all their cards. it is a freaking world, have to be careful. For enthusiast like us, crumbs & hint are best we can have to join & connect the dots & quench our thirst.

 

[Armchair]

I know that all this is kept secret due to prioritised responsibility of Security, But to an enthusiast like me, I really get mad at all this.

Can’t even boast about a capability with broad chest as I myself don’t know about us as we aren’t USA or France or UK who openly declare what they have (even if understated)

One of the fun things Pak has that has never been declared - HQ-9 SAMs. Supposedly.

 

[TomCat]

One of the fun things Pak has that has never been declared - HQ-9 SAMs. Supposedly.

Every 2-3 years, Suddenly some media outlet out of nowhere publishes another “Pakistan to Buy HQ-9” article.

Seems a joke really, The media

 

[Armchair]

Every 2-3 years, Suddenly some media outlet out of nowhere publishes another “Pakistan to Buy HQ-9” article.

Seems a joke really, The media

Pak has a few, just for defending very high value asset (HVAs). They aren't marked in permanent locations, so cannot essentially be detected by OSINT.

 

[Graphican]

@TomCat @Caprxl

On disclosure of secrets and assets, I visited Indian defence forum the other day and one thing they kept saying was that Pakistan has exposed its assets unwisely to win a skirmish against India. Some "specialist" was saying that he cannot put his head-around why PAF giveaway its strategy that it built over 25 years just to shoot a Mig21.

After Feb 2019, India did realise how far off they are and what a gap they face against PAF. Now I just wonder if India has learned more than they should have about their weaknesses. Pakistan had to respond to India to shatter their ill-perceived superiority - but it did come at a cost that India today is baffled and possibly sooner than they should have.

What is your take?

 

[MIRauf]

@TomCat @Caprxl

On disclosure of secrets and assets, I visited Indian defence forum the other day and one thing they kept saying was that Pakistan has exposed its assets unwisely to win a skirmish against India. Some "specialist" was saying that he cannot put his head-around why PAF giveaway its strategy that it built over 25 years just to shoot a Mig21.

After Feb 2019, India did realise how far off they are and what a gap they face against PAF. Now I just wonder if India has learned more than they should have about their weaknesses. Pakistan had to respond to India to shatter their ill-perceived superiority - but it did come at a cost that India today is baffled and possibly sooner than they should have.

What is your take?

MK would agree with them, he has written extensively about it and has been chided for doing it.

Again, if you take something from history, IDF whopped Egyptian, Syrian and few other airforces and showed their capabilities back in 70s, they further refined on it and made themselves even better. Thus one can't say that what lesson(s) PAF learned from it as to what worked well and what didn't ? who is to say that they ( PAF ) will not enhance these capabilities even further ?

 

[Nightfox]

MK would agree with them, he has written extensively about it and has been chided for doing it.

Again, if you take something from history, IDF whopped Egyptian, Syrian and few other airforces and showed their capabilities back in 70s, they further refined on it and made themselves even better. Thus one can't say that what lesson(s) PAF learned from it as to what worked well and what didn't ? who is to say that they ( PAF ) will not enhance these capabilities even further ?

Another point to take from that skirmish that should be thought upon is that why was 26/2 even allowed to happen ? If we pride ourselves on being good the entire showdown would have ended on the 26th and not continued to the next day.That is something to think about i.e. where did we go wrong which allowed them to do what they did on 26/2.

 

[TomCat]

@TomCat @Caprxl

On disclosure of secrets and assets, I visited Indian defence forum the other day and one thing they kept saying was that Pakistan has exposed its assets unwisely to win a skirmish against India. Some "specialist" was saying that he cannot put his head-around why PAF giveaway its strategy that it built over 25 years just to shoot a Mig21.

After Feb 2019, India did realise how far off they are and what a gap they face against PAF. Now I just wonder if India has learned more than they should have about their weaknesses. Pakistan had to respond to India to shatter their ill-perceived superiority - but it did come at a cost that India today is baffled and possibly sooner than they should have.

What is your take?

MK would agree with them, he has written extensively about it and has been chided for doing it.

Again, if you take something from history, IDF whopped Egyptian, Syrian and few other airforces and showed their capabilities back in 70s, they further refined on it and made themselves even better. Thus one can't say that what lesson(s) PAF learned from it as to what worked well and what didn't ? who is to say that they ( PAF ) will not enhance these capabilities even further ?

If only people like @Mastankhan Were taken seriously as Critics by Higher ups,
They could learn a lot, Critics are the best source of useful knowledge.

@Graphican I would Agree with the statement you quoted of Indians as well as disagree.

Agree in a sense that PAF went all out in terms of assets utilization, While disagree on the FACT that the modern warfare is Electronic Warfare oriented and that the Warfare is Multi Dimensional.

IAF might have good birds but it still lives in the past, WW2/Cold war era.

The still train as if they just have to go, Dogfight and come back.

While the Modern warfare isn’t only about just “Fighters”, But supporting Aircrafts have a “LARGER Role”, Such that the Ops Planning are based on these supporting Aircrafts such as EW/AWACS Planes, Fighters are considered secondary.

Their main usage is to provide shield and stronger situational awareness. Without this, The fighters, Be they J-10, Flankers, Rafale, F-16, MKI, Mirage or EFT, They are sort of vulnerable.

So point is, PAF acted just “Normally” not extra ordinarily.

One can call PAF Extra ordinary on the outcome of the Op, As usage of complex Modern Warfare tactics without any Real Combat experience, And yet scoring kills and being successful in the end Alhamdullilah.

OTOH, There was some heated debates among higher ups of PAF for not downing the other “Exposed Fighter fleet”, PAF had their locks on. So this is where I would agree with @Mastankhan .

However, Such a move would have either caused further escalation or total WIN, Former being the more probable scenario.

Point is, One cannot say PAF “Emptied the Bag of tricks on 27 Feb”, As there were no “Tricks” rather just Standard Modern Warfare which India didn’t see coming, Were caught as surprise.

Coming to the Bag of tricks, I am pretty sure, PAF is always ready with such Magics.

Let the Rafales come

@Khafee @TsAr @Counter-Errorist @ali razza @Gripen9 @Zeeman @Zulu @Pakhtoon yum @baqai @Wolf-PK @Caprxl

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

If only people like @Mastankhan Were taken seriously as Critics by Higher ups,
They could learn a lot, Critics are the best source of useful knowledge.

@Graphican I would Agree with the statement you quoted of Indians as well as disagree.

Agree in a sense that PAF went all out in terms of assets utilization, While disagree on the FACT that the modern warfare is Electronic Warfare oriented and that the Warfare is Multi Dimensional.

IAF might have good birds but it still lives in the past, WW2/Cold war era.

The still train as if they just have to go, Dogfight and come back.

While the Modern warfare isn’t only about just “Fighters”, But supporting Aircrafts have a “LARGER Role”, Such that the Ops Planning are based on these supporting Aircrafts such as EW/AWACS Planes, Fighters are considered secondary.

Their main usage is to provide shield and stronger situational awareness. Without this, The fighters, Be they J-10, Flankers, Rafale, F-16, MKI, Mirage or EFT, They are sort of vulnerable.

So point is, PAF acted just “Normally” not extra ordinarily.

One can call PAF Extra ordinary on the outcome of the Op, As usage of complex Modern Warfare tactics without any Real Combat experience, And yet scoring kills and being successful in the end Alhamdullilah.

OTOH, There was some heated debates among higher ups of PAF for not downing the other “Exposed Fighter fleet”, PAF had their locks on. So this is where I would agree with @Mastankhan .

However, Such a move would have either caused further escalation or total WIN, Former being the more probable scenario.

Point is, One cannot say PAF “Emptied the Bag of tricks on 27 Feb”, As there were no “Tricks” rather just Standard Modern Warfare which India didn’t see coming, Were caught as surprise.

Coming to the Bag of tricks, I am pretty sure, PAF is always ready with such Magics.

Let the Rafales come

@Khafee @TsAr @Counter-Errorist @ali razza @Gripen9 @Zeeman @Zulu @Pakhtoon yum @baqai @Wolf-PK @Caprxl

Agreed

 

[Scorpio]

JF17 Seeoff skardu

 

[Scorpio]

No 14 TailChoppers Air Superiority & No 16 Multi Role BlackPanthers Sq
JF17 at PAF Base Qadri Skardu

 

[Caprxl]

Another point to take from that skirmish that should be thought upon is that why was 26/2 even allowed to happen ? If we pride ourselves on being good the entire showdown would have ended on the 26th and not continued to the next day.That is something to think about i.e. where did we go wrong which allowed them to do what they did on 26/2.

Firing SOW & taking a turn over border at near sonic speed while transgressing 3-5 nautical miles in the process is not infiltrating into a Countries Airspace. So relax Brother

Let me give you a food for thought;

It Again can be repeated by IAF from within their own boundaries & you will not be able to do anything about it BUT doing exactly the same to them which we responded in kind.

Hint: Just see who's narrative is winning? What PAF/Pakistan State did on 26th & 27th has turned the tables that took India decades to set.

@TomCat @Caprxl

On disclosure of secrets and assets, I visited Indian defence forum the other day and one thing they kept saying was that Pakistan has exposed its assets unwisely to win a skirmish against India. Some "specialist" was saying that he cannot put his head-around why PAF giveaway its strategy that it built over 25 years just to shoot a Mig21.

After Feb 2019, India did realise how far off they are and what a gap they face against PAF. Now I just wonder if India has learned more than they should have about their weaknesses. Pakistan had to respond to India to shatter their ill-perceived superiority - but it did come at a cost that India today is baffled and possibly sooner than they should have.

What is your take?

I will not say anything as @TomCat has nicely summed it up as quoted by me below (whether to hit 9 targets or not, that is a separate discussion) except that;

"I am glad if this is what they believe & will be more than happy if this is official learning curve of IAF as well, believe me it is in our best interest"

Agree in a sense that PAF went all out in terms of assets utilization,

So point is, PAF acted just “Normally” not extra ordinarily.

Point is, One cannot say PAF “Emptied the Bag of tricks on 27 Feb”, As there were no “Tricks” rather just Standard Modern Warfare which India didn’t see coming, Were caught as surprise.

Coming to the Bag of tricks, I am pretty sure, PAF is always ready with such Magics.