Pakistan Army Aviation Possible acquisitions

[Defence_reader]

You rock !!!!!!!!

Enemy Shock ?

 

[Mingle]

It would be better if they upgrade them.

You mean current fleet Ah1F? Jorden did?

 

[Khafee]

You mean current fleet Ah1F? Jorden did?

Exactly like what Jordan did!

Modernised Cobras give RJAF extra bite
Posted 5 February 2019 ·

Jordan is upgrading an initial batch of 12 of its Bell AH-1 Cobras for continued service, extending their useful lives by at least 20 years. Jon Lake reports.

Two of the upgraded Bell AH-1 Cobras were returned to Jordan in April, where one was exhibited at the SOFEX special operations exhibition.
Live firing trials began in the autumn, and all 12 aircraft are due to return to Jordan by the end of the year.

US company, Science & Engineering Services (SES), was awarded the contract to upgrade 12 of the Royal Jordanian Air Force’s (RJAF’s) original AH-1S Cobras after a competitive process.

SES designed and engineered the AH-1F modifications itself, and stripped down, inspected, and repaired each aircraft as required, rewiring and reconditioning them at its facility at Huntsville, Alabama.

SES worked closely with the airframe original equipment manufacturer, Bell, and Honeywell, the engine supplier, throughout the modernisation effort.

SES’s upgrade programme encompasses three areas – airframe, avionics and weapons.

Each aircraft was then fitted with a new Northrop Grumman integrated mission equipment package (IMEP). This avionics suite is based on the integrated avionics system installed in the Bell UH-1Y, Bell AH-1Z and Sikorsky UH-60V.

It consists of a commercially available FlightPro Gen III mission computer, new L-3 LCD multifunction displays, a smaller Rockwell Collins back-up screen, an embedded Northrop Grumman GPS/INS with a fibre-optic gyro and an embedded software digital map, and new navigation controls. Rockwell Collins ARC-210 radios are also installed.

Northrop Grumman oversaw the design and embodiment of the avionics upgrade, which is based on a modular, open architecture that will facilitate the rapid integration of third-party hardware and software for future upgrades and capability insertion.

The integrated design and lightweight components of the new avionics system cut the aircraft’s weight by 300lbs when compared to the unmodernised Jordanian AH-1F/S.

The original television sight unit (TSU) of the AH-1S and F is replaced by an L-3 Wescam MX-15D electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) turret.
The upgrade has added new weapons, including Lockheed Martin M310 launchers for the AGM-114R Hellfire missile and seven- or 19-round 2.75in (70mm) rocket pods for BAE Systems APKWS laser-guided rockets.

New defensive aids and countermeasures include the Orbital ATK AAR-47 missile approach warning system and Extant Aerospace AN/ALE-47 chaff /flare dispensers.

The RJAF received 24 AH-1S Cobras in 1985, and then nine surplus US Army AH-1Fs from 2000. At least one S was lost in service, and either eight or 16 aircraft were delivered to Pakistan in about 2011.

Jordan then received 15-16 Israeli AH-1 Tzefa aircraft, equipped with a new night targeting system installed in place of the original Cobra TSU or TV sighting unit. The former Israeli aircraft arrived in late 2014, and have been used in operations against Daesh, alongside the RJAF’s AH-1S helicopters.

Jordan has now put 20 of its Cobras up for sale, probably representing all of the aircraft not being upgraded. Two or three aircraft have already been transferred to Kenya and two or four have been earmarked for transfer to the Philippines.

The uncertain size of the diversion to Pakistan makes it hard to assess the actual size of the Jordanian Cobra fleet today. It may be that the RJAF will only operate the 12 recently modernised AH-1S Cobras with No10 Squadron at King Abdullah II Air Base near Gabawi, and that all other examples of the type (currently equipping No12 Squadron) will be sold off.

In the long term, Jordan hopes to replace its AH-1S Cobras with a new attack helicopter. The Bell AH-1Z is known to be on the air force’s wish-list, as well as larger helicopters like the armed Blackhawk.

Jordan is the first Cobra operator to modernise the avionics of the AH-1F/S, but SES is now promoting its Cobra modernisation to other operators of the type.


Upgraded Old Cobra Gunships Offer Big Capabilities Without The Price Tag
An update package for Jordan includes components found on the latest AH-1Z version and could be an attractive option for other countries.
By Joseph Trevithick
June 4, 2018

Jordan is in the process of upgrading some of its AH-1F Cobra gunship helicopters to a new standard that incorporates many features similar, or outright identical, to those on the latest AH-1Z model. The update package could potentially serve as a model for other countries looking to upgrade their existing AH-1s or for military forces considering buying Cobras for the first time on the growing secondary market.

The Jordanian Air Force displayed one of the modified helicopters during the country’s biennial Special Operations Forces Exhibition, or SOFEX, which took place at Marka Airport in the capital Amman in May 2018. According to a report from Aviation International News, Jordan has taken delivery of two of the updated gunships from American contractor Science & Engineering Services (SES) for training purposes, but they will have to go back to the United States for additional live-fire testing.

Jordan is looking to upgrade 12 AH-1Fs in total, but it has a number of additional E and F models in service, including 16 it acquired from Israel in 2015, that it could put through the update program if it chose to do so. We have reached out SES for additional information, but at the time of writing we had not yet heard back about our queries.

However many helicopters the Jordanian Air Force eventually decides to upgrade, they will be significantly more capable than they had been in their previous configurations. The new versions will feature an Integrated Avionics System from Northrop Grumman that is the same as the one found on the latest new production twin-engine AH-1Z Zulu Cobras, also known as Vipers, from Bell.

Royal Jordanian Air Force’s modernisation programme is upgrading 12 of its 20 Bell AH-1F/S Cobras, with one of the first on display at SOFEX 2018. Hellfire Compatible Cobra on Display - Armada International pic.twitter.com/uUtx4edrwG
— Armada International (@arm_magazine) May 15, 2018​

This suite has an LN-251 inertial navigation system using a fiber-optic gyroscope. It also replaces a number of analog systems in the front and rear cockpits with large flat-panel multi-function displays by L3. New AN/ARC-210 radios from Rockwell Collins round out the major cockpit updates.
This comprehensive upgrade significantly reduces strain on operators who no longer have to keep track of the readouts from a mix of analog gauges, optical scopes, and antiquated heads-up displays. The U.S. Army is putting its older UH-60 Black Hawks through a similar and relatively low-cost update program for many of the same reasons.

Here's the HUD setup in the AH-1W. pic.twitter.com/434JBmdjCO
— Tyler Rogoway (@Aviation_Intel) December 31, 2017​

The new Jordanian helicopters also have an improved OrbitalATK AN/AAR-47 missile approach warning system coupled with an Extant Aerospace AN/ALE-47 dispenser able to fire decoy flares and chaff. It’s not clear if there are any additional updates to the gunship’s defensive sensor suite and countermeasures systems planned for the future.

The most visible change is SES’ replacement of the original Telescopic Sight Unit, or TSU, with a new L3 Wescam MX-15D sensor turret, which is similar in both form and function to the Lockheed Martin AN/AAQ-30A Target Sight System, or TSS, on the AH-1Z. The TSU was specifically for guiding the TOW anti-tank missile, an optically-tracked weapon that required the gunner to keep the sight on the target until the weapon hit its mark.

The new system contains both electro-optical and infrared cameras, as well as a laser designator. Not only does this combination of systems it make it more flexible than the older TSU, but it also greatly expands the crew's ability to use it for reconnaissance and surveillance missions, as well as target acquisition.

The new Jordanian AH-1s combine the new sensor system with Hellfire missiles and Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System II laser-guided rockets, or APKWS II,. This pairing will give the gunships good flexibility against a variety of different targets.

The ever-popular Hellfires already come in a number of different types. According to Jane's 360, Jordan will primarily use the AGM-114R variant, which combines an anti-tank warhead with a fragmentation sleeve for use against both armored vehicles and soft targets. Other options include the tandem-warhead AGM-114K, which has a better chance to defeat countermeasures such as explosive reactive armor, and the thermobaric AGM-114N, ideal for engaging unarmored vehicles and enemy personnel both out in the open and inside buildings.

The smaller APKWS IIs mate a laser-guidance system to existing 70mm rockets and warheads, resulting in low-cost precision-guided munitions that can engage a variety of different targets. High explosive warheads are among the most common, but the U.S. military has begun building versions using the M282 warhead that has the ability to break through some armor and reinforced structures.

The rockets also have a smaller warhead than the Hellfires, which has allowed other military forces, including U.S. special operations forces, to use them to engage relatively small targets, such as individual enemy fighters in doorways and windows. And Since the AH-1s will be able to carry pods with seven or 19 of these weapons on one pylon, instead of just four Hellfires, it will drastically increase the total number of targets they can engage before needing to rearm, as well. And there’s always the gunship’s 20mm M197 three-barrel cannon under the nose, too.

We don’t know the exact price Jordan is paying to upgrade each AH-1F, but it is very likely far cheaper than buying an AH-1Z straight off the production line. A new build Zulu Cobra costs more than $30 million, according to the U.S. military's latest budget request for the 2019 fiscal year.

The unit cost of an older twin-engine AH-1W when it rolled out of Bell Helicopter’s plant in 1986 was only around $22 million when adjusted for inflation to 2018 dollars. Single engine models such as the AH-1F were cheaper and the value of older Cobra types aircraft available on the secondary market is almost certain to have depreciated markedly.

It’s also possible that these upgrades could lead to additional improvements as time goes on. The sensor turret mount especially is readily suitable to other L3 Wescam offerings that could either offer more or less capability as desired. It’s not hard to see other new features, such as a directional infrared countermeasures system, or DIRCM, to defeat infrared-guided anti-aircraft missiles or a new gun system, becoming available for the AH-1 series later on.

Despite there being no takers so far, various companies have pitched up-gunning programs for decades already, including swapping out the M197 for the single-barrel 30mm M230 chain-gun found on the AH-64 Apache. The lightweight M230LF version that is now available would be even better suited to any AH-1 platform.

As such, the upgrade package SES has put together for Jordanian Air Force, or a version thereof, could easily be a more cost-effective starting place for any country still operating older AH-1s or that is looking to do so. Jordan itself has donated AH-1Fs from its own stocks to other countries, such as Kenya and the Philippines.

More significantly, as the U.S. Marine Corps retires its AH-1Ws for good in favor of the AH-1Z, the U.S. military has begun actively looking for ways to modernize them for sale to foreign allies and partners. In December 2017, the Navy said it was interested in hiring a contractor specifically to install a new, commercially available off-the-shelf avionics update to help sweeten the deal, which sounds very much like what SES offered to Jordan.

As of May 24, 2018, there were already more than 30 “Whiskey Cobras” sitting at the Bone Yard at Davis Monthan Air Force Base in Arizona, according to a monthly U.S. Air Force inventory report. In March 2018, Brazil, which recently bought the helicopter carrier ex-HMS Ocean from the United Kingdom, reportedly inquired about buying some of these gunships.

The United States has already had significant success selling off retired OH-58D Kiowa Warrior armed scout helicopters, particularly to allies in Europe and Africa. Combining AH-1Ws, or other second-hand Cobra types, with the SES upgrade package, could be an even more attractive option for small, cost-conscious military forces looking to bolster their capabilities.

And countries that had expressed an interest in buying American gunship helicopters in the past, but may have been rebuked over human rights concerns and other issues, such as Nigeria, have found President Donald Trump administration much more willing to approve arms sales in general. Trump has even pushed for American diplomats to more actively promote American-made weapons.

There’s a distinct possibility that upgraded AH-1s similar to Jordan's new “AH-1Z Lite” gunships will end up in direct competition with the actual, production AH-1Zs. Bell has been steadily growing the Zulu Cobra customer base, but a lower cost alternative with many similar capabilities could definitely draw away potential buyers. If the cost is sufficiently low, the SES updated Cobras might also present some competition for other American-made and foreign light attack helicopters, as well.

It will definitely be interesting to keep an eye out for which countries decide to take the upgrade route and what Cobras they use as a starting place.

 

[Zeeman]

Do we need our mother in law's permission to upgrade them? Turkish have some excellent facilities. Some of our cobras are as old as the Vietnam war.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Officially I dont know. BUT Alh the deliveries have started.

Now step two, is to ask our esteemed members, after the delivery of thees 12, how many more IA?

IMO ideally...it would be best if Pak could kind of sort of plug the major gaps in the number of attack helicopters with the Zulus(in a belt tightening manner...as in get enough to just get by).
Skip the Z10ME altogether...and with the arrival of Zulus have enough breathing room to wait for T129 with Turkish engines.
Then start building T129 in numbers...to further buy enough time for the development of the heavier variant...and with that Pak will have its own High/Low mix of attack helicopters.

It would save the headache and complexities of having potentially three different platforms(Zulus, Z10, T129) of different origins(different engines and hardware, different training, etc). Unlike the Chinese option...Turks are providing ToT...if Zulus can cover the need just enough for a few years...then Pak can be on the path to having its very own attack helicopters(ATAK 1 and 2).

@Khafee convince PA to upgrade current Cobras and acquire a few new(in addition to these 12) if needed...just to get by and go all in with the Turkish option(ATAK 1&2)...taking the same path for attack helicopters as was taken with JF17 for Pak's need of fighter jets.

 

[TsAr]

@Khafee congrats 2 u bro, sorry bit late to the party...... Waiting for pics

 

[Khafee]

Do we need our mother in law's permission to upgrade them? Turkish have some excellent facilities. Some of our cobras are as old as the Vietnam war.

No upgrades of any kind in Turkey. Keep the denial of engine license for the T-129 in mind.

If upgrades are to happen, they will either be in the US or at PAC.

 

[Mingle]

Ok Bro so where do I send Mithai ...address pls.... Best in Canada guaranteed...

when can we expect to see or hear about this landing in official circles?

Which one Bengali or one is Markham? I forgot name? It's Pak shop

 

[Caprxl]

@Khafee congrats 2 u bro, sorry bit late to the party...... Waiting for pics

Worry not, I just beat you to it

Il-78 is back, Zulus have landed

Accept Italian Lasagne from me YA Khafee

Officially I dont know. BUT Alh the deliveries have started.

Now step two, is to ask our esteemed members, after the delivery of thees 12, how many more IA?

In my opinion atleast 36 is a good number. 48 I ideal but former would also do just fine & definitely more will come. It is not the question of IF but when & how many.

I believe PAA should opted more Zulus along used whiskys refurbish them at flat rate don't need T129 and wait unless Z10 matures if realy desperate add M35 along. Haris saying PA looking M-198 surplus artillery too and probably more p3c about 3???

Turkish Heli is good, In fact I was more into that procurement not because of T129 but involvement of Pakistan in heavy weight Turkish helo project, kind of ATAK 2.

It is still uncertain what will come out of it, as Problem child is not Pakistan but Turkey's relation with USA.

Also 12 Zulus won't cut it. More numbers are needed & still a vacant space is there for Heavy category.

 

[Mingle]

Worry not, I just beat you to it



Accept Italian Lasagne from me YA Khafee



In my opinion atleast 36 is a good number. 48 I ideal but former would also do just fine & definitely more will come. It is not the question of IF but when & how many.



Turkish Heli is good, In fact I was more into that procurement not because of T129 but involvement of Pakistan in heavy weight Turkish helo project, kind of ATAK 2.

It is still uncertain what will come out of it, as Problem child is not Pakistan but Turkey's relation with USA.

Also 12 Zulus won't cut it. More numbers are needed & still a vacant space is there for Heavy category.

Yes it's Erdogan policy US transfer turkish F35 to US air force

 

[TsAr]

Erdogan should never have gone for S400

 

[Cookie Monster]

Erdogan should never have gone for S400

It would've been best to use it as bargaining chip...

- Announce the S400 purchase...way before negotiations are done and contract signed...
- During negotiations...ask Russians to back off in Syria...or not work against Turkish interventions...if they want to proceed further with this multibillion dollar deal. Then while the negotiations are ongoing...make a military push to secure the objectives in Syria.
- Use S400 so the west can offer air defense systems like the patriot(as they did) and other goodies like the engine for T129(interim while they work on an indigenous solution) and help with TFX.
- Back out of S400...get all the goodies offered by the west...use patriot system for air defense while Turkish SAM systems are still being developed. And after a few months of stalling...Turkish position in Syria would have been significantly strengthened without Russian interference.

A win win...with some extra wins.

 

[Zeeman]

Which one Bengali or one is Markham? I forgot name? It's Pak shop

alkaram

 

[Mingle]

alkaram

Thanks Yeh I tried that they are very good especially Barfi

 

[Zulu]

There are few things in life u never have enough i.e. love,friends,perfumes/books and weapons .How much of it give us enough punch in both Punjab and Sindh sector enough punch against endian armoured corps ?or how many will tilt the balance in our favor ??

Officially I dont know. BUT Alh the deliveries have started.

Now step two, is to ask our esteemed members, after the delivery of thees 12, how many more IA?