Pakistan Army Aviation Possible acquisitions

[Mingle]

Philippines No Longer Interested in American Attack Helicopters - Which Other Suppliers Could Replace Them

The armed forces of the Philippines will reportedly no longer consider acquiring American attack helicopters, and due to the considerable cost of the models being marketed to the Southeast Asian state Manilla will look elsewhere for alternative models. This follows moves by Washington to approve the sale of AH-64E Apache and AH-1Z Viper attack helicopters to the country - the former a high end heavyweight design and the latter a lighter but much less capable one. Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana stated regarding the need to look way from the United States to meet requirements for attack helicopters: “I think that’s $1.5 billion to $2 billion for six attack helicopters. We cannot afford that. We only have an allocation of P13 billion ($256 million), so if we will buy with that amount, we can only buy one or two units. That’s why we are looking at other countries where we can buy a few more with the same amount,”

AH-64E Apache Attack Helicopter

A number of other suppliers can potentially provide the Philippines with the aircraft it needs at a much lower cost, with Russia in particular standing out as a leading potential source. Russia and the Philippines have seen relations steadily improve under the latter’s Rodrigo Duterte administration, with Russian ships paying port visits and providing the Southeast Asian state with arms. Russia is also a leading contender to provide the Philippines with attack submarines to protect its waters, although considerable Western political pressure has since been applied to prevent Manilla from accepting such a sale. Russia is itself a leading exporter of attack helicopters, and while its Ka-52 platform is considerably newer and overall considered more capable than the Apache, a cheaper design such as the Mi-35 may be considered more suitable. Other suppliers of attack helicopters are relatively few, and while China has recently developed more advanced variants of the Z-10 platform the state of relations between Beijing and Manilla will make such a sale unlikely. South Korea is also developing a line of promising attack helicopters, and has been a major supplier of arms to the Philippines in the past including fighter jets, but its aircraft are unlikely to be ready in time to meet the country’s defence needs.

Military Watch Magazine

militarywatchmagazine.com

Hal Dhurv

 

[Zeeman]

All hail to Turkish leader for F.. up his defence industry. Pakistan , Bangladesh and Phillipins were all interested in ATAK and he blew it over third rated S400....... unbelievable . F35 gone , access to top technology gone, access to top hardware gone......

I love Turkey and Turks and they are very very smart and business minded people.

I am currently dealing with them over my maple syrup production facility and they are very good in business. Except this idiot. Turkey has some amazing top notch technology and scientific base .... what a waste ...

 

[Scorpio]

All hail to Turkish leader for F.. up his defence industry. Pakistan , Bangladesh and Phillipins were all interested in ATAK and he blew it over third rated S400....... unbelievable . F35 gone , access to top technology gone, access to top hardware gone......

I love Turkey and Turks and they are very very smart and business minded people.

I am currently dealing with them over my maple syrup production facility and they are very good in business. Except this idiot. Turkey has some amazing top notch technology and scientific base .... what a waste ...

Some ego becomes main factor for sach kind decisions. Seemd to be case here too

 

[Scorpio]

Hal Dhurv

Dont worry with speed and amount india in putting in helos industries, quite possible in future thay start getting export orders

 

[ali razza]

Some ego becomes main factor for sach kind decisions. Seemd to be case here too

that duterte guy
he is something

 

[Gripen9]

Hal Dhurv

Ecuador acquired 7 Dhruvs in 2009. 4 succumbed to crashes. They put the remaining 3 on sale a few months ago.

 

[Zeeman]

Infact Ecuador wanted India to return money ....or to sue them...

 

[CHI RULES]

All hail to Turkish leader for F.. up his defence industry. Pakistan , Bangladesh and Phillipins were all interested in ATAK and he blew it over third rated S400....... unbelievable . F35 gone , access to top technology gone, access to top hardware gone......

I love Turkey and Turks and they are very very smart and business minded people.

I am currently dealing with them over my maple syrup production facility and they are very good in business. Except this idiot. Turkey has some amazing top notch technology and scientific base .... what a waste ...

Sir Turks especially current leadership is not idiot if they remain in power you shall see soon what comes out of box, as per many Turks are searching for their old roots is Ottoman Empire though it is not possible in current scenario but current people in power there have goals to gather old Ottoman influenced Islamic countries and to create a block, they off course have support of Iran and Russia. They are trying to achieve self reliance as well as free decision making, unfortunately KSA in many matters have failed the Islamic world. In addition Turks shall develop own engine in Year and a half, they shall require more four years to make it fully operational so in medium term Pakistan may get heavy version of T129 though looks to be difficult in short term.

 

[Zeeman]

I don’t doubt bro Chi that they are decades ahead of other Muslim countries in technology and their main source of knowledge and technology is through the West. By picking fight over such redundant issue they have really shot them selves in the foot.
They didn’t respond as badly after the coup but by buying S400 they totally unnecessarily provoked the fight .
Turkey in most way is the way forward for Muslim countries to follow . I personally hope and pray that they get their acts together sooner than later .

 

[Cookie Monster]

Things are fluid, but for PAA, as of 22/04/2020, 10.00 Zulu, this seems to be the road map, in this particular order for now:

1. Z10ME
2. T129
3. AH-1Z

Approx. 15 each initially

Sir is there a reason why 15 each initially?
Why three different types of attack helicopters? Wouldn't it be more costly to train on different platforms and the added logistics?

 

[CHI RULES]

I don’t doubt bro Chi that they are decades ahead of other Muslim countries in technology and their main source of knowledge and technology is through the West. By picking fight over such redundant issue they have really shot them selves in the foot.
They didn’t respond as badly after the coup but by buying S400 they totally unnecessarily provoked the fight .
Turkey in most way is the way forward for Muslim countries to follow . I personally hope and pray that they get their acts together sooner than later .

Crux of discussion is Pakistan shall get a heavy version of T129, probably in five to six years but for now PA has to come out of their plans for TOT and lighter version should focus on immediate threats from India. Should get a new platform and it is reported that with upgraded engines, protection and stealth features Z10 Me is up to the mark. On other forum I was involved in the discussion with a pro about one to one expected combat of Attack Heli he was not keen about my views. But have seen that India has not only armed their LCH attack heli with AAMs but are testing them extensively. We should also not only arm our future heli with AAMs but also develop tactics to tackle enemy helicopters. So far Pak Cobra are not armed or pilots trained for such scenario. The same has already happened in Iran Iraq war previously.

 

[Khafee]

Sir is there a reason why 15 each initially?
Why three different types of attack helicopters? Wouldn't it be more costly to train on different platforms and the added logistics?

What you say holds true, but their is Logic behind it.

1. The Zulus are coming FOC from CSF.
2. The T-129 is a question mark. The US to date hasn't given approval for the engines to be exported. SO The T-129 could very well be replaced by some other Turkish Helo, a couple of years down the road.
3. The Z10-ME is an upgraded, PA specs hot & high capability helo. The initial 15 is a test sqdn, to verify certain parameters. If satisfied, this number will most likely go up.

 

[Scorpio]

What you say holds true, but their is Logic behind it.

1. The Zulus are coming FOC from CSF.
2. The T-129 is a question mark. The US to date hasn't given approval for the engines to be exported. SO The T-129 could very well be replaced by some other Turkish Helo, a couple of years down the road.
3. The Z10-ME is an upgraded, PA specs hot & high capability helo. The initial 15 is a test sqdn, to verify certain parameters. If satisfied, this number will most likely go up.

T 129 intial order is of 30 helos against deal of 1.5 billion via long term loan. Most probably will not be coming due engine issue.

Zulu were i think 12 in deal of 900 millions, we we definitely dont have. Although 12 are manufactured and save on 2 different location.

We only left with Z10ME or can say Z10MP may be with few Pakistan specifications. Army is very much reluctant about Chinese helos.

Thay more comfortable operating Russians helos. But problem is that russia wants hard cash.

So right very much confused situation in public about army thinktank i cant say any thing

 

[Khafee]

T 129 intial order is of 30 helos against deal of 1.5 billion via long term loan. Most probably will not be coming due engine issue.

Zulu were i think 12 in deal of 900 millions, we we definitely dont have. Although 12 are manufactured and save on 2 different location.

We only left with Z10ME or can say Z10MP may be with few Pakistan specifications. Army is very much reluctant about Chinese helos.

Thay more comfortable operating Russians helos. But problem is that russia wants hard cash.

So right very much confused situation in public about army thinktank i cant say any thing

You have commented on all 3 platforms, and then declare: " I can't say anything"

 

[Scorpio]

You have commented on all 3 platforms, and then declare: " I can't say anything"

@Khafee i said about pakistani army thinktank that have make actual decisions. What is there future plan now.

But i have feeling thay might go for few Russian bird bcuz army is happy with Russia helo as compared our air forces which cant thing above of usa and f16 PAF. its there stigma