Pakistan Army Aviation Possible acquisitions

[Signalian]

There has to be solution that TAI has to come up for T-129

 

[TomCat]

*yawns*

There has to be solution that TAI has to come up for T-129

Z-10ME is better deal if comes with licensed production and assistance in setting up infrastructure if not already available

 

[Khafee]

There has to be solution that TAI has to come up for T-129

So the T-129 is on hold for now?

 

[TomCat]

Seems like good news comes in sequence, One after the another.

TAI General Manager Temel Kotil: US engine supply for Atak helicopters to be sold to Pakistan is in final signature. We think we will get the engines. We received additional time from Pakistan.

Today’s statement by Temel Kotiln in instagram live

@Khafee @ali razza @Blacklight @Mangus Ortus Novem @Wolf-PK @Counter-Errorist

 

[ali razza]

it was great opportunity for pakistanis to stay away from turks and went chinese but americans played us all
they will guve the engine because lesser evil is turks from chinese

 

[Mingle]

Goodnews So PAA should ready for Zulus too along T129 . I believe if all goes well then F16 blk 72 are good possibility too IA

 

[Zeeman]

Sometimes I wonder what were Turks thinking...:. Picking fight with the Americans and buying junk S400 ( I have my own reasons to say that ).... loosing out on F35, devastating their export of high end weapons such as ATAK, economic sanctions and Tariffs ..... and what did they get in return???

do you see any logic behind this madness .

 

[Khafee]

Sometimes I wonder what were Turks thinking...:. Picking fight with the Americans and buying junk S400 ( I have my own reasons to say that ).... loosing out on F35, devastating their export of high end weapons such as ATAK, economic sanctions and Tariffs ..... and what did they get in return???

do you see any logic behind this madness .

Erdogan and logic is a contradiction.

 

[Mingle]

Sometimes I wonder what were Turks thinking...:. Picking fight with the Americans and buying junk S400 ( I have my own reasons to say that ).... loosing out on F35, devastating their export of high end weapons such as ATAK, economic sanctions and Tariffs ..... and what did they get in return???

do you see any logic behind this madness .

Not only T129 turkey got exclusively rights to manufacturers and export some parts of F35 imagine next 40 yrs supply chain like F16s how much turkey gonna make I will call it bad politics

 

[safriz]

Just buy "Cheetak" from India

 

[Khafee]

Just buy "Cheetak" from India

Not Dhruv

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Not Dhruv

On a serious note... we have an accute planning issue within Pakistna.... just doesn't seem to see the obvious.

We need to establish heli industry at all costs.... the need for civiliant choppers is going to grow as well... so a joint venture that provides a head-start is more valuable than just attack choppers....

I am rather saddened that we have not been able to reverse engineer Cobbera or Russsian choppers even in this day and age...

Simple ability to copy/reverse engineering something is a first giant step Industrialisation... but our attitude is somewhat laid back in everything.

We need chopper industry with different applications... engine is not the problem.... so many venues are there...even if the first batch is not that powerful.... at least we can create an industrial base...

Why such things are not happening is troubling ....

 

[Khafee]

On a serious note... we have an accute planning issue within Pakistna.... just doesn't seem to see the obvious.

We need to establish heli industry at all costs.... the need for civiliant choppers is going to grow as well... so a joint venture that provides a head-start is more valuable than just attack choppers....

I am rather saddened that we have not been able to reverse engineer Cobbera or Russsian choppers even in this day and age...

Simple ability to copy/reverse engineering something is a first giant step Industrialisation... but our attitude is somewhat laid back in everything.

We need chopper industry with different applications... engine is not the problem.... so many venues are there...even if the first batch is not that powerful.... at least we can create an industrial base...

Why such things are not happening is troubling ....

Things are fluid, but for PAA, as of 22/04/2020, 10.00 Zulu, this seems to be the road map, in this particular order for now:

1. Z10ME
2. T129
3. AH-1Z

Approx. 15 each initially

 

[Khafee]

it was great opportunity for pakistanis to stay away from turks and went chinese but americans played us all
they will guve the engine because lesser evil is turks from chinese

PAC will be doing some work as well, and I believe (not confirmed), PAC & PAA will be equal partners in ATAK-2

 

[Khafee]

The world is advancing, Militaries seem to adapt to changes quite late.

UCAVs are just underestimated by militaries I believe, They have a high potential to replace the whole “Attacl Heli” thing if enough R&D is applied to it.

Think of it, Attack Helis are used for Multi purposes but with main goal of engaging hostile targets.

Engage how? Different ways, Like Recon pods input, IRST, Data Link input, EW, Basic Gun.

Since all these are low altitude engagements and methods, UCAVs can play a very better role.

The main advantage here compared to Attack helis would be Stealth Or immunity from ground anti air systems as UCAVs are quite slimmer and smaller as compared to helis and they have an open body with spaces, While helis are a whole single body unit.

In place of one Attack heli, You can field 3-4 UAV+UCAV combination or maybe a single Heavy UCAV.

The former having a combination of

• Recon UAVS with camera and IRST systems,
• UCAVs equipped with ATGMs, Anti Artillery Missiles and Anti Air defence missiles,
• And if needed for CAS or An op to support ground troops against mobile hostiles, A possible UCAV with gun.
• All these inter connected with a mobile Data link

The latter being a uniquely designed Sort of heavy UCAV With options to modify it by end user as per mission requirements, Like installing a Pod, Gun, ATGMs or not, Possibly EW pod.

Pakistan Army should look into this solution, While definitely go for some helis as well for the short term since the need for Attack helis would not finish for us especially at High altitude areas of LOC where UCAVs would be too weak to function and transmit data.

In the long term, MALE UAVs have the best shot at replacing the necessity of Attack Helis. Altitude problems lie with the UAVs but since these ops don’t require SUCH high altitude and that In order to remain immune from AD Systems, Helis ascend to high altitudes, UCAVs being quite unrecognizable and Low profile, Can do the same work at a low altitude, So a Good Bargain.
There is also the cost factor, In this modern warfare, Singularity is often considered a defeated Notion,

1. Be it variety (Single type/Origin Jet/Heli/Tank), As when the enemy understands the vulnerability, It understands that this vulnerability is for the whole fleet, So Whole fleet is vulnerable in combat, That is why keeping a variety is a good Practice, Sourcing spares, related Workforce Would be easier as origins are different and unique.
2. Limits the scope and features, A whole fleet of Attack helis with single origin, vs an enemy who has multi origin crafts, Some having advantages over the whole fleet, This in turn proves as a bad news for the whole fleet of single origin as they lack so and so capability.
3. The more you broaden the base of op, The better you are immune to a single wave of attack, In this UCAV+UAV case, Every UAV has an operational room, It is usually mobile and transportable. A UAV gets downed, You still have other UCAV/UAVs flying, Cost and loss is quite lower, Capability loss is also half of half as Compared to a single multirole attack heli getting downed, Taking with itself the Recon roles, Attack roles, EW roles in hell, So Broaden your options and active players in the field, Spread Out, Enemy will have psychological disadvantage and AD systems would have a hard time to pin point at the UAVs which have low RCS and higher probability of miss.

So, Fielding more and more UAVs (Lower op cost as compared to UCAVs and Then Attack helis), UCAVs in place of 2 Attack helis prove to be better in theory. Acquisition and development cost is another advantage.
@AliYusuf @Khafee @Mangus Ortus Novem @Signalian @HRK @ali razza @Berke2 @Scorpion @Lieutenant @Blacklight @Falcon29 @maxpane

I expect a good discussion from you all in this regards, Let us stick to the key points and those are 3,

UAVs, UCAVs, Attack Helis

Off Topic, please start a new thread.