Pakistan army contingent to be posted in Saudi Arabia on 'training and advisory mission'

[Jaeger]

very interesting between both countries but as I know Pakistan wants to keep expanding into the Arab world in terms of defense and security. This training mission will help the Saudi Military deal with insurgencies with more efficiently (I am guessing) since the Pakistani army is very good at counter insurgency.
Germany was to do a similar deployment to train Saudi military officers.

 

[I.R.A]

Umm....wrong tree. I didn't say either of those.

First, you are taking sides between a raggedy bunch of rebels who have missiles and keep firing them off in all directions; if they land one in the wrong place, I wonder what the shape of the world will be. Even the Iranians will distance themselves from the scene of that crime, in less than a nano-second. As it is, I am amazed that they haven't tried to stop this very dangerous stu

Second, you have enough problems of your own. With an anti-Muslim administration on your east, and an anti-Pakistan administration on your west, with allies and supporters who, in the east, have gained you what some members - at least one on this forum - steadfastly refuse to acknowledge, a bad reputation in many parts of the world (ironic in view of @Scorpion having said what he did about the good effects of having a friend who can speak for the country in circles that matter), and who, in the west, have earned you the active displeasure of the strongest military force in the world; with a failed economy that Mastan Khan on another forum feels needs KSA to put up large sums of money so that the rest of the country can be safely ignored, and the conventional forces built up sufficiently for an amphibious landing on the Konkan coast - I mean, do I have to go on?

Third, you are actively buying Iranian displeasure, and driving them more forcefully into the ranks of those who don't like you very much. It could matter.

Fourth, you are ringing alarm bells in circles that have been cozying up to the same countries who are inviting you over. It now seems that all the fuss and feathers was carefully organised to soften this impact, and it will have a definite impact in those already less than friendly places, a bad impact, one that will deepen and intensify whatever ill feeling exists, and extend it to cover your friends as well.

Of course, it is no consolation to us that you are not intervening in the affairs of a non-Muslim country. @Scorpion has spelt out the implications of that very, very clearly. From our point of view, the OIC huffing and puffing and threatening to blow our house down is one thing; an active military ally of the KSA is quite another. That carries with it a lot more, many of the Gulf states, Jordan, for sure; who else is not sure, but whoever it is, that is not good news for a Modi-governed India. At the same time, it is not incentive for throwing out Modi; instead, it will strengthen his position for India to discover that Muslim states are actively involved with Pakistan in a military alliance.

Iranian displeasure, bad name in the world, Eastern anti Muslim administration and Anti Pakistan Administration on the West ........ these all are realities, they already exist ......... no matter how much we try making others happy, they are not listening because we are sissies who fail to take bold decisions and tell everyone to mind their own business, can't have relations with Saudi ..... why because Iranians feel insecure ...... great strategy .... did Iran think twice can't have relations with India because Pakistanis feel insecure?

If Iranians have no problems meddling everywhere in the Muslim world ........ and having relations with other countries without taking into account sensitivities and emotions of Pakistanis .......... why should Pakistan care about them? Its business ...... ain't it?

Saudi Arabia is more important in any aspect than Iran ....... be it religious value, be it strong friend, be it a wealthy resourceful ally ... what does Iran have to offer? Saving us from sectarian problem only?

Suppose if Saudi Arab asks India for military advisors and trainers ........ would India think about Iran? or any other country? And if this time Pakistan fucks up I hope Saudis ask India and treat Pakistanis like they deserve to be treated because of their impotence and cowardice. UAE lighting Burj Khalifa in Indian tricolor makes Pakistanis go gaga and start Arab bashing .... but they don't understand that constant sectarian sh*t being played by Pakistani politicians is making Pakistan's case weak day by day ...... Saudis aren't begging you ..... they have the capability to hire the best resources. Can Chinese ignore Saudis? Can US ignore Saudis? Doesn't Israel want normal relations with Saudis? Can Russia directly threaten Saudis? .......... the cost to please Iranians so they can have a sectarian orgasm at expense of Pakistan's weakening position day by day ....... is enough to isolate us ....... Chinese are not brothers they are friends and a strong ally ..... with benefits, we offer something of interest, they return the favor ........ we need to realise ..... someday we would need to lock Chinese in a situation where they can't blackmail you.

It is time for Pakistan to expand the global reach, we have the manpower, the experience ........ just play the cards right.

 

[Hithchiker]

Second point I want to make is that, if God forbids Pakistan get into a situation of any sort, Saudi Arabia will stand firmly by Pakistan. I remember how Saudi Arabia turned the whole world against Iran in the 80s and again against Iraq in the 90s. What if a war erupts between lets say China and the US and pakistan found its self involved? or Pakistan-India? There is no emotion here. We have to acknowledge that such thing might break out any second. Pakistan will be looking for its allies not necessary for military back up. Political and economic back up is way more important and Saudi Arabia has a heavy weight in the international arena. We bailed Tunisia & Egypt and we launch a full scale military op again Houthies. We have to think of it as visa versa. Also form a religious point of view is an obligation.

I think I will be opening a thread and talk about that in details bringing up all points from military, politics, economy to geo strategy.

Agreed but couldn't get this ?obligation of ?

 

[Hithchiker]

Umm....wrong tree. I didn't say either of those.

First, you are taking sides between a raggedy bunch of rebels who have missiles and keep firing them off in all directions; if they land one in the wrong place, I wonder what the shape of the world will be. Even the Iranians will distance themselves from the scene of that crime, in less than a nano-second. As it is, I am amazed that they haven't tried to stop this very dangerous stu

Second, you have enough problems of your own. With an anti-Muslim administration on your east, and an anti-Pakistan administration on your west, with allies and supporters who, in the east, have gained you what some members - at least one on this forum - steadfastly refuse to acknowledge, a bad reputation in many parts of the world (ironic in view of @Scorpion having said what he did about the good effects of having a friend who can speak for the country in circles that matter), and who, in the west, have earned you the active displeasure of the strongest military force in the world; with a failed economy that Mastan Khan on another forum feels needs KSA to put up large sums of money so that the rest of the country can be safely ignored, and the conventional forces built up sufficiently for an amphibious landing on the Konkan coast - I mean, do I have to go on?

Third, you are actively buying Iranian displeasure, and driving them more forcefully into the ranks of those who don't like you very much. It could matter.

Fourth, you are ringing alarm bells in circles that have been cozying up to the same countries who are inviting you over. It now seems that all the fuss and feathers was carefully organised to soften this impact, and it will have a definite impact in those already less than friendly places, a bad impact, one that will deepen and intensify whatever ill feeling exists, and extend it to cover your friends as well.

Of course, it is no consolation to us that you are not intervening in the affairs of a non-Muslim country. @Scorpion has spelt out the implications of that very, very clearly. From our point of view, the OIC huffing and puffing and threatening to blow our house down is one thing; an active military ally of the KSA is quite another. That carries with it a lot more, many of the Gulf states, Jordan, for sure; who else is not sure, but whoever it is, that is not good news for a Modi-governed India. At the same time, it is not incentive for throwing out Modi; instead, it will strengthen his position for India to discover that Muslim states are actively involved with Pakistan in a military alliance.

Valid points

1) Actually this is frustration ...Those who actively resist based there foundation on money? As to what we will secure in term of economy and diplomatic cloud ..

2) Pakistan can't ignore the diaspora formed the huge chunk of remittances...security in KSA reciprocate with same..

3) Now here comes the point as you mentioned in previous post ...Will they fight in future if some how war is fought by Pakistan with india ?Oil supply will be put to halt ? Military equipment will fly here...I believe here comes the biggest confusion due to indian economy ...Smoke in the air will always put this in question..
Your enemy is my enemy but my enemy is yours ?

4) I read somewhere forget where otherwise could have shared a link (don't know how much right)..Viable and strong Egpyt along with Pakistan provides strength to KSA

 

[Hithchiker]

Iranian displeasure, bad name in the world, Eastern anti Muslim administration and Anti Pakistan Administration on the West ........ these all are realities, they already exist ......... no matter how much we try making others happy, they are not listening because we are sissies who fail to take bold decisions and tell everyone to mind their own business, can't have relations with Saudi ..... why because Iranians feel insecure ...... great strategy .... did Iran think twice can't have relations with India because Pakistanis feel insecure?

If Iranians have no problems meddling everywhere in the Muslim world ........ and having relations with other countries without taking into account sensitivities and emotions of Pakistanis .......... why should Pakistan care about them? Its business ...... ain't it?

Saudi Arabia is more important in any aspect than Iran ....... be it religious value, be it strong friend, be it a wealthy resourceful ally ... what does Iran have to offer? Saving us from sectarian problem only?

Suppose if Saudi Arab asks India for military advisors and trainers ........ would India think about Iran? or any other country? And if this time Pakistan fucks up I hope Saudis ask India and treat Pakistanis like they deserve to be treated because of their impotence and cowardice. UAE lighting Burj Khalifa in Indian tricolor makes Pakistanis go gaga and start Arab bashing .... but they don't understand that constant sectarian sh*t being played by Pakistani politicians is making Pakistan's case weak day by day ...... Saudis aren't begging you ..... they have the capability to hire the best resources. Can Chinese ignore Saudis? Can US ignore Saudis? Doesn't Israel want normal relations with Saudis? Can Russia directly threaten Saudis? .......... the cost to please Iranians so they can have a sectarian orgasm at expense of Pakistan's weakening position day by day ....... is enough to isolate us ....... Chinese are not brothers they are friends and a strong ally ..... with benefits, we offer something of interest, they return the favor ........ we need to realise ..... someday we would need to lock Chinese in a situation where they can't blackmail you.

It is time for Pakistan to expand the global reach, we have the manpower, the experience ........ just play the cards right.

1) Yes, this proves they are not mere advisers or trainers since KSA can get access to the best of it from US, UK OR NATO..

2) There is no need to please anyone, be it Iranian , Chinese or otherwise..Decision should be taken independently considering cost vs benefit..

3) Starting from NATO supply route fiasco after Salala and now with current issues , none has provided and exert its influence on USA which otherwise could have yield different results

4) Egypt has secured much more without doing much so either we boost a lot and do nothing on ground..At the end whats the PRICE ? any top line defense equipment or economic package ?I think Egypt is much credible then Pakistan or Pakistani Generals are just securing there own retirement package

 

[I.R.A]

1) Yes, this proves they are not mere advisers or trainers since KSA can get access to the best of it from US, UK OR NATO..

2) There is no need to please anyone, be it Iranian , Chinese or otherwise..Decision should be taken independently considering cost vs benefit..

3) Starting from NATO supply route fiasco after Salala and now with current issues , none has provided and exert its influence on USA which otherwise could have yield different results

4) Egypt has secured much more without doing much so either we boost a lot and do nothing on ground..At the end whats the PRICE ? any top line defense equipment or economic package ?I think Egypt is much credible then Pakistan or Pakistani Generals are just securing there own retirement package

This is where Saudis lack the skills ....... they go for the top leadership ......... and result, common Pakistani is now cursing them. If they keep doing what they have been doing in the past ....... well ......... soon we will see Pakistanis protesting on streets against such moves and decisions.

On the other hand if we are serious about national interests and this is for the country ..... then only thing worthy of consideration is what the other country or people opposing it have to offer. This sectarian rift argument is horsesh*t and not enough, its used to blackmail only .......... the equation is simple

Arabia has the holy places, Iran has none ........ Arabs pretty much outweigh Iran in every field, alliances, resources, latest fighting equipment, money to sustain wars ......Iran on the other hand can only threaten us "You are our neighbors and we will create sectarian and proxy wars for you" ......... And if Iran has the right to go meddle in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Qatar and even Pakistan itself ...... then why Pakistani Iranians think that if this same is done by Pakistan, its wrong?

 

[Hithchiker]

This is where Saudis lack the skills ....... they go for the top leadership ......... and result, common Pakistani is now cursing them. If they keep doing what they have been doing in the past ....... well ......... soon we will see Pakistanis protesting on streets against such moves and decisions.

On the other hand if we are serious about national interests and this is for the country ..... then only thing worthy of consideration is what the other country or people opposing it have to offer. This sectarian rift argument is horsesh*t and not enough, its used to blackmail only .......... the equation is simple

Arabia has the holy places, Iran has none ........ Arabs pretty much outweigh Iran in every field, alliances, resources, latest fighting equipment, money to sustain wars ......Iran on the other hand can only threaten us "You are our neighbors and we will create sectarian and proxy wars for you" ......... And if Iran has the right to go meddle in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Qatar and even Pakistan itself ...... then why Pakistani Iranians think that if this same is done by Pakistan, its wrong?

1) This what we are observing.No tangible benefits has been observed and seen making people frustrate to conclude from this..Did quota of Pakistani worker increased ?No offend to Indians friends but just for sake of argument,they have almost 3 Million expats double than Pakistan falls in to the category of Egypt (having half of Pakistan population) and Bangladesh (that has done nothing so far on the pount we are disusing)

2) Yes sectarian fiasco is just a bull shit only to scare nothing else..If iran really have that much influence they would have done that until now.

3) As i said , no concerned with what Iran is doing as they are extracting there benefits and influence..Only question is what do we will achieve

 

[Joe Shearer]

1) This what we are observing.No tangible benefits has been observed and seen making people frustrate to conclude from this..Did quota of Pakistani worker increased ?No offend to Indians friends but just for sake of argument,they have almost 3 Million expats double than Pakistan falls in to the category of Egypt (having half of Pakistan population) and Bangladesh (that has done nothing so far on the pount we are disusing)

A good point: no offence taken. Quite the contrary; the bulk of the Indians working there are not Muslims. We did not bother about the million restrictions and put-downs and daily humiliations but just put our heads down, took the humiliation, earned the money that was thrown at us and built our country. Nothing wrong with that, I hope.

2) Yes sectarian fiasco is just a bull shit only to scare nothing else..If iran really have that much influence they would have done that until now.

I was only echoing the wise.

Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument
About it and about, but evermore
Came out by the same door as in I went.

with apologies to the tent-maker.

3) As i said , no concerned with what Iran is doing as they are extracting there benefits and influence..Only question is what do we will achieve

<sigh> Yes, of course. Another seventy years of seeking an answer to a question that should never have been asked.

 

[Hithchiker]

A good point: no offence taken. Quite the contrary; the bulk of the Indians working there are not Muslims. We did not bother about the million restrictions and put-downs and daily humiliations but just put our heads down, took the humiliation, earned the money that was thrown at us and built our country. Nothing wrong with that, I hope.



I was only echoing the wise.

Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument
About it and about, but evermore
Came out by the same door as in I went.

with apologies to the tent-maker.



<sigh> Yes, of course. Another seventy years of seeking an answer to a question that should never have been asked.

You are right...We just need to look for our-self first ..No body will fight our war ...In this aspect of diplomacy we should learn from India...Having relationship with Iran and KSA both this will happen when Pakistanis will act as Pakistani rather then Saudi or Iranian ..

 

[HRK]

Saudi Arabia is more important in any aspect than Iran

This is where I would like to differ with you, this is basically the same mentality of preferring one country over the other .... for us BOTH KSA & IRAN are STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT ... what we all forget when we compare (or prefer) our relations with one country with our relations to the other country we in reality conjoint and complicate our relations and policies towards those countries thus reduce our DIPLOMATIC & POLITICAL OPTIONS hence we always find Pakistan in confined space in International Arena. Ideally our relations with every country must be INDEPENDENT of any third party intervention

But there are SOME IMPORTANT QUESTIONS which I observe all are either avoiding or ignoring, the fact that in current regional scenario of Middle-east sending troops to KSA is having more significance then some sensitivities of IRAN or even it is more important than current Yemen war, in short first we must understand that PAKISTAN is not a NET SECURITY PROVIDER in the middle-east region; until recently USA was the sole policeman in the region but the involvement of Russia has changes the dynamics and situation after the Qatar crises and the involvement of Turkey and UAE has complicated it further

Keep in mind KSA does not need Pakistan for its security, they have a very potent defence infrastructure in place for this purpose so even after this IF they find assistance of Pakistan Armed forces as advisers & trainers useful then its good but what IF some thing very bad happen which force us to take decisions then WHAT WOULD BE BASIS ON WHICH WE WILL TAKE DECISION.

Above all What is our Policy to deal with current and future crises of middle-east ....???

 

[Scorpion]

This is where I would like to differ with you, this is basically the same mentality of preferring one country over the other .... for us BOTH KSA & IRAN are STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT ... what we all forget when we compare (or prefer) our relations with one country with our relations to the other country we in reality conjoint and complicate our relations and policies towards those countries thus reduce our DIPLOMATIC & POLITICAL OPTIONS hence we always find Pakistan in confined space in International Arena. Ideally our relations with every country must be INDEPENDENT of any third party intervention

But there are SOME IMPORTANT QUESTIONS which I observe all are either avoiding or ignoring, the fact that in current regional scenario of Middle-east sending troops to KSA is having more significance then some sensitivities of IRAN or even it is more important than current Yemen war, in short first we must understand that PAKISTAN is not a NET SECURITY PROVIDER in the middle-east region; until recently USA was the sole policeman in the region but the involvement of Russia has changes the dynamics and situation after the Qatar crises and the involvement of Turkey and UAE has complicated it further

Keep in mind KSA does not need Pakistan for its security, they have a very potent defence infrastructure in place for this purpose so even after this IF they find assistance of Pakistan Armed forces as advisers & trainers useful then its good but what IF some thing very bad happen which force us to take decisions then WHAT WOULD BE BASIS ON WHICH WE WILL TAKE DECISION.

Above all What is our Policy to deal with current and future crises of middle-east ....???

Allow me to disagree, Saudi Arabia is indeed strategically important than Iran. A country that carries its own wight in the Arab, Muslim world and beyond. Pakistan is also strategically important to Saudi Arabia. Has Iran offered its soil for Pakistan to create a second strike capability in case of need? Has Saudi Arabia once been involved in suspicious activity inside Pakistan? Iran did many times for the benefit of anti Pakistan elements.

The whole point isn't about sending troops and fighting other's wars rather a symbolic preposition. Its not a secret that Pakistan has many trainees and advisors in Saudi Arabia since ever. We all know that most Saudi frogmen graduate from Pakistan academy every year. Everyone knows that Pakistan is involved in the training of the Saudi Royal Guards. Saudi Land forces as well do take some training courses inside Pakistan.

When other countries strated taking your allies down one by one it is eventually your turn. When it comes to country to county relations, pacifism has no place, its either you survive together or vanish together.

When Iran pokes its nose in Afghanistan and started creating an environment that poses risk to the security of Pakistan and you know that why would you insist its strategically important? From what angle exactly?

Iran is regarded by the international community as pariah state, has nothing to say in the international arena, has no solid economy, isolated and sanctioned.

Ideally our relations with every country must be INDEPENDENT of any third party intervention

Balanced in the right word. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Pakistan gets involved in a war one way or another. What does that mean to Pakistan economy? Is Iran ready to make a huge deposit in Pakistan monetary agency to sustain the value of the currency? Is Iran ready to provide humanitarian assistance? Will provided Pakistan with the state of the art armament although what they currently has is an outdated equipment? Will Iran be able to provide Pakistan with a million barrel a day gas and other petrochemical supplies? Will Iran be able to make every effort to ensure Pakistan has an edge over the opponent? BIG NO. Iran will simply walk away. So when you say strategically important I would like to know in what sense exactly? There is no Pakistani diaspora in Iran to begin with. What are you taking from undeveloped country? No sold economy, no infrastructure, no decent education, no decent reputation and has high rate of unemployment, poverty, drugs...etc. Im not trying to insult, defame or bash Iran. What I have stated are facts on the ground. When you are paralyzed and categorized as a handicap that is not an insult.

 

[Scorpion]

Agreed but couldn't get this ?obligation of ?

What I meant was if Pakistan was attacked based on the basis of being a muslim country that is seen as a threat to the non muslim countries then from a religious prospective it an obligation for the rest of the Islamic countries to provide help regardless of being an ally or not. But Pakistan doesn't lack the manpower nor the capability but certainly would require a strong lobby and economic stand.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I can only express my happiness that at long last we have a forum where different opinions can be articulated firmly and with conviction, but politely and with respect to the feelings of other members. Both @HRK and @Scorpion presented points of view that cannot be reconciled, but the presentations were so rational that there was no strain in absorbing them and noting their contradictions and congruences.

Thank you all, gentlemen.

 

[HRK]

Allow me to disagree, Saudi Arabia is indeed strategically important than Iran. A country that carries its own wight in the Arab, Muslim world and beyond.

I accept your disagreement but let me point out that your statement could be true IF we analysis the clout of both KSA & Iran EXCLUSIVELY in the context of Middle-east only, but from the perspective of Pakistan importance of both Iran & KSA lies in two different regions.

You have rightly pointed out that KSA is regional leader in middle-east but for us the importance of Iran lies in our own region spreading from Central Asia to South Asia, just because of this reason I was opposing the idea of conjoining our policies for KSA & Iran.

Has Iran offered its soil for Pakistan to create a second strike capability in case of need? Has Saudi Arabia once been involved in suspicious activity inside Pakistan?

Why should they do this ???
As a matter of fact Why any country of the world would allow this ...???
Above all why should we expect this type of FAVOUR from any country including KSA .... ??

It not a matter related to romantic fantasies of some teenage, even to think in this way is beyond the boundaries of sensibility, we should not let the realism slip out from our discussion

Iran did many times for the benefit of anti Pakistan elements.

Yes I am aware, specially their policies in past regarding Northern Alliance

The whole point isn't about sending troops and fighting other's wars rather a symbolic preposition. Its not a secret that Pakistan has many trainees and advisors in Saudi Arabia since ever.

Nor I am opposing this, but I am advocating to FORMALIZE it with clear understanding of each other limitations without leaving any doubt which may give raise to any unwanted event such as the statement given by Minister of State for Foreign Affairs of UAE Dr. Anwar Mohammed Gargash;
now read my comment I made in my previous post in the context of Mr. Gargash Statement.

the fact that in current regional scenario of Middle-east sending troops to KSA is having more significance then some sensitivities of IRAN or even it is more important than current Yemen war, in short first we must understand that PAKISTAN is not a NET SECURITY PROVIDER in the middle-east region; until recently USA was the sole policeman in the region but the involvement of Russia has changes the dynamics and situation after the Qatar crises and the involvement of Turkey and UAE has complicated it further

Now the Irony is this statement was made even when our C-130s were participating in Yemen ops

Reception by Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman in the Honor of Kuwait's Health Minister

• HRK
• Feb 18, 2018
• 16

Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman disclosing the role of Pakistani C-130s in Yemen Operation (@2:30)

listen the related content at 2:30

When Iran pokes its nose in Afghanistan and started creating an environment that poses risk to the security of Pakistan and you know that why would you insist its strategically important? From what angle exactly?

Again in larger context
1- Pak-USA relations have no future
2- American strategy in Afghanistan has failed
3- China and Russia are supporting Iran diplomatically
4- Iran is Observer in SCO
5- Rise of ISIS in Afghanistan
6- Penetration of Iran in Afghanistan's current political system
7- Gawadar ports & CPEC
8- Tripartite Freight Train Agreement is about to functional in this year
9- Stability/Instability in Baluchistan
10- Iran is acting as buffer zone between Pakistan & Syrian crises by keep both side of Syrian crises engaged in Syria
11- etc.

Iran is regarded by the international community as pariah state, has nothing to say in the international arena, has no solid economy, isolated and sanctioned.

But Iran have 'GEOGRAPHY & REACH' .

Balanced in the right word.

It would be right only if we have to hyphenate our dealing with both countries in the same region.
I used the word INDEPENDENT just as I explained earlier in this post that both countries have their importance in different regions

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Pakistan gets involved in a war one way or another. What does that mean to Pakistan economy? Is Iran ready to make a huge deposit in Pakistan monetary agency to sustain the value of the currency? Is Iran ready to provide humanitarian assistance? Will provided Pakistan with the state of the art armament although what they currently has is an outdated equipment? Will Iran be able to provide Pakistan with a million barrel a day gas and other petrochemical supplies? Will Iran be able to make every effort to ensure Pakistan has an edge over the opponent? BIG NO. Iran will simply walk away.

IF we have to fight a war then believe me it will be US and ONLY US who will fight, there are limitations even for KSA again read my comment

but I am advocating to FORMALIZE it with clear understanding of each other limitations without leaving any doubt

So when you say strategically important I would like to know in what sense exactly?

Already explained above in detail

 

[I.R.A]

This is where I would like to differ with you,

No issues ......... the disagreement makes it more interesting. Otherwise I will be labelled an Arab, and this forum as anti Iran and pro Arab.

Plus for us Pakistanis our differences in such matters make things more clearer and understandable.

this is basically the same mentality of preferring one country over the other

No ...... I still try imagining how our part of the world would have been different if we had better relations with USSR instead of opting to join US camp solely.

for us BOTH KSA & IRAN are STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT

HRK I look at it as ......... long term strategic importance and Short term strategic importance, Iran for me by all means should be marked short term, and this should be totally based on our interests, given their dubious agenda and nature, that too if they offer any tangible benefit apart from sectarian blackmail, well only then they can be trusted for short term ..... but in the long run, please remember we are dealing with Mullah Iran, they believe in some nasty stuff and the day they think their prophecy has come true ... it would be turmoil and bloodshed in Muslim world ......... including Pakistan. Their habit of meddling and spreading their influence beyond their borders is one grave threat that should keep Pakistan (their immediate neighbor) at its toe ..... our relations with them (in my view) are purely being their neighbor unfortunately ......... I don't see any brotherhood possible with them ...... even we wish they won't take it serious. Iran under Shah and Iran under Mullah ......... which one suits Pakistan?

Relations with Saudi in long run and short run matter a lot ......... vast majority of Pakistanis are employed there and these numbers can be increased if our government seriously starts taking interest in common Pakistanis and their well being, ask the soldiers who get deputed there, is it hard for them or beneficial for them? The answer we know. Brotherhood with them can work, the resources they enjoy can be exploited / shared, we can influence their policy making, their decisions, they have started taking military training and increasing their defense capabilities seriously, if we don't side with them now, remember their forefathers were great warriors and military strategists, its in their blood and once they reclaim their past glory and reach that same level and if Pakistan remained absent in that reform ..... its going to cost us big time. Saudi Iranian clash is inevitable no matter how much we try to meditate and try reconciliation between them, its bound to happen ..... Mullah and their zombies believe in some serious Prophecies, Bedouin building sky scrappers is a sign of last judgement day for them ....... Saudis under new young prince have started opening to reforms in the religious matters and conservatism, Iranian Mullah will never let that happen .......... Persian empire, Persian pride and past glory plays a very vital role in their thinking.

what we all forget when we compare (or prefer) our relations with one country with our relations to the other country we in reality conjoint and complicate our relations and policies towards those countries thus reduce our DIPLOMATIC & POLITICAL OPTIONS hence we always find Pakistan in confined space in International Arena. Ideally our relations with every country must be INDEPENDENT of any third party intervention

Our relations with Muslim world and our relations with non Muslim world ........ are two different scenarios of different nature, there are extra factors and considerations attached with when it comes to having relations with and stature in Muslim world.

in short first we must understand that PAKISTAN is not a NET SECURITY PROVIDER in the middle-east region;

Shy away from the realities, even when you have the capability ......... but looking away won't help, either go offensive or as usual wake up after a decade when much has been lost. We cannot deny that common Pakistanis are not fighting each other in those regions.

Keep in mind KSA does not need Pakistan for its security, they have a very potent defence infrastructure in place for this purpose so even after this IF they find assistance of Pakistan Armed forces as advisers & trainers useful then its good but what IF some thing very bad happen which force us to take decisions then WHAT WOULD BE BASIS ON WHICH WE WILL TAKE DECISION.

If Pakistan doesn't mind Madinah and Makkah under Iranian Mullah control and their cohorts, and can live with their uninterrupted influence in Pakistan and on Pakistanis ........ then please by all means remain unrelated and neutral ........ that way we will be faced with and fighting a sectarian war in our own country with our own people ......... otherwise don't wait too long ........ a late decision given the developments won't win us anything big and we will still be fighting sectarian war in our own country and this one would be lot fierce than the other one. So I don't know how we think that we can remain unrelated to all this when we very clearly can see Pakistanis who prefer Saudi and Pakistanis who prefer Iranians over anything and everything else.

Above all What is our Policy to deal with current and future crises of middle-east ....???

Remaining confused and giving out confused signals ....., we are carrying our donkey on our shoulders to make everyone happy ....... somehow that is our policy.