Pakistan army contingent to be posted in Saudi Arabia on 'training and advisory mission'

[I.R.A]

what would have happened at FATF?

US for another year or two cannot seriously put Pakistan on that list. It would be victim of its own laws if it did.

 

[Khafee]

US for another year or two cannot seriously put Pakistan on that list. It would be victim of its own laws if it did.

The clout KSA carries Internationally, seriously can't be compared with Iran - this is a prime example.

 

[I.R.A]

The clout KSA carries Internationally, seriously can't be compared with Iran - this is a prime example.

Sir no disagreement with what you said ...... but FATF wasn't avoided because of this clout. US ki apni majbooria b hain.

 

[Khafee]

Sir no disagreement with what you said ...... but FATF wasn't avoided because of this clout. US ki apni majbooria b hain.

NATO supply line being the biggest I can understand, but the added pressure by the ME's only heavy weight, can't be denied, can it?

 

[I.R.A]

Muslims in India would have been celebrating Hindu festivals, leaving out the religious element, they would have adopted some Indian food habits, without trespassing into the area that is haram, they would have flocked to shrines and pleaded for saints and pirs to intercede for them, or do them favours that belong to the power of the One God, and in a hundred ways, come closer to those who surrounded them in such huge numbers. Not without changing those others, but with some changes within themselves.

Ain't that all not happening already in India and Pakistan as well? saints, shrines, Holi, resemblance in wedding ceremonies, food habits and lot more?

The way I look at it sir (if you don't mind) it is not the Hindu assimilating culture, but the collective fearful nature of people of this region. It is mainly because of the superstitious nature of people of this region, that they tend to be submissive, they somehow have this inferiority complex hard coded into their systems, they cannot take bold steps and come up with revolutionary ideas and practices, they look to others, they need someone somebody to look to and it has to be something someone tangible visible for them. They are weak in their minds and their beliefs ........ very few got to overcome this inability, weakness or the fear. I would say its not the assimilating culture .... but its their collective fear and inferiority complex ...... they adopted Islam because of their own grievances and not because they were impressed by some revolutionary belief system.

For you, I presume it could be a bad thing. For many, it would be a good thing. For me, it is a matter to be studied closely, to try to understand better the human condition.

Human condition of this region can never become better unless what I stated above is removed sir. They are not free ......

For me personally mixing of different people and living together is not a bad thing, but what I cannot live with is the attitude and behavior worn by the people of this region ...... they remain dependent, superstitious.

 

[I.R.A]

NATO supply line being the biggest I can understand, but the added pressure by the ME's only heavy weight, can't be denied, can it?

Sir I believe if Pakistan is put on FATF list, US and its companies by their own law would be prohibited to deal and conduct transactions with Pakistan. US considering its ongoing project(s) in Pakistan cannot afford it, it would become victim of its own laws.

The other two are supporting factors, but in any case USA's own interest remains at top. If it wasn't for their own interest it wouldn't have been any different than Jerusalem episode.

 

[HRK]

Allow me to say your argument is flawed. Here is my counter argument is as follow:

1- Iran is and has never been in any position of being a strategically importance to Pakistan for many many reasons:
A- Durin India, Pakistan war, Iran has not provide any strategic depth to Pakistan
B- During US invasion of Afghanistan, Iran took an anti Pakistan approach
C- Iran offered its soil, provide fake passport for anti Pakistan spies to cross in; Pakistan side of the story I have no proof but i do believe it.
D- Iran is anti Gawadar port for its Chabahar giving India a space for investment.
E- Iran involvement in cross border killing of security forces, violation of Pakistan airspace
F- Iran carried many attacks against anti Iran elements inside Pakistan including Saudi diplomats
G- Iran manipulation of LNG pipeline
H- Balouchstan stability is mutual concern for both countries, separation of Baluchistan Pakistan = Baluchistan Iran as well.

2- Saudi Arabia Pakistan strategic relation
A- Saudi Arabia role during India-Pakistan war of providing naval vessels, ammunition and other financial and logistic support to the best of its capability
B- Pakistan troops stationed across the Arabian gulf back in 60 till late 80s
C- Saudi Arabia-Pakistan involvement in afghanistan war.
D- Saudi Arabia was the only country who breached/violated UN sanctions over Pakistan risking its own security and economy; Saudi Arabia used civilian planes with empty seats to provide Pakistan with supplies.
E- Pakistan offers Shamsi military base to Saudi Arabia.
F- Saudi Arabia investments, loans...etc inside Pakistan.

Sure iran is acting as a buffer zone against ISIS in Pakistan but it support ISIS in Syria, armed militants everywhere, Afghanistan , Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen and most likely has sleeping cells inside pakistan too aside from recruiting Shia Pakistanis and send them to die in Syria.

So when you speak about strategic importance please do the math. The bottom line is that if Pakistan found itself threatens the only country that will stand by it is Saudi Arabia and probably some other gulf states as well. If Saudi Arabia is under threat, Pakistan aside from other regional countries will be the turning point in such situation.

I don't want to speak about how Shia Iran sees the Sunnia world just to avoid being labeled sectarian or anti shia.

Enjoy your day mate.

as I said earlier

I accept your disagreement but let me point out that your statement could be true IF we analysis the clout of both KSA & Iran EXCLUSIVELY in the context of Middle-east only, but from the perspective of Pakistan importance of both Iran & KSA lies in two different regions.

You have rightly pointed out that KSA is regional leader in middle-east but for us the importance of Iran lies in our own region spreading from Central Asia to South Asia

Now what interest of KSA get undermine if we keep our relation with Iran in different regions which pose no threat to KSA interests ?

B- During US invasion of Afghanistan, Iran took an anti Pakistan approach

Yes because we were opposing players in Afghanistan, before US invasion of Afghanistan. Now in current situation we are required to have Iran on board with us along China and Russia for the resolution of Afghanistan problem, for the broader interests of Region

C- Iran offered its soil, provide fake passport for anti Pakistan spies to cross in; Pakistan side of the story I have no proof but i do believe it.

No Indian spy Kulbushan was caught with original Indian passports with fake identity not with Iranian passport, but it is difficult to believe that his years long presence in Chabhar could remain secret from Iranian Intelligence agencies

G- Iran manipulation of LNG pipeline

agreed with your E and F points and for this point believe me it was Pakistani politicians (former president Zardari and his associates) who did the most damage in this case

Sure iran is acting as a buffer zone against ISIS in Pakistan

its good for us

most likely has sleeping cells inside pakistan too

this is an officially known thing not a surprise

aside from recruiting Shia Pakistanis and send them to die in Syria.

It a service to us literally a service the Iranian are doing for us ..... for me its good that all those who have a mindset of militant (does not matter they belong to whatever sect) get killed or remain engage in their wars out side Pakistan it in our interest I DON'T WANT THEM TO RETURN TO PAKISTAN ALIVE, I don't want my country to remain in perpetual state of war.

 

[Khafee]

It a service to us literally a service the Iranian are doing to us ..... for me its good that all those who have a mindset of militant (does not matter they belong to whatever sect) get killed or remain engage in their wars out side Pakistan it in our interest I DON"T WANT THEM RETURN TO PAKISTAN ALIVE, I don't want to remain in perpetual state of war for my country

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ain't that all not happening already in India and Pakistan as well? saints, shrines, Holi, resemblance in wedding ceremonies, food habits and lot more?

The way I look at it sir (if you don't mind) it is not the Hindu assimilating culture, but the collective fearful nature of people of this region.It is because of the superstitious nature of people of this region, they somehow has this inferiority complex hard coded into their systems, they cannot take bold steps and come up with revolutionary ideas and practices, they look to others, they need someone somebody to look to and it has to be something someone tangible visible for them. They are weak in their minds and their beliefs ........ very few got to overcome this inability and weakness or the fear. I would say its not the assimilating culture .... but its their collective fear and inferiority complex ...... they adopted Islam because of their own grievances and not because they were impressed by some revolutionary belief system.





Human condition of this region can never become better unless what I stated above is removed sir. They are not free ......

For me personally mixing of different people and living together is not a bad thing, but what I cannot live with is the attitude and behavior worn by the people of this region ...... they remain dependent, superstitious.

Deeply insightful. I really appreciate this piercing, penetrating analysis.

 

[Scorpion]

as I said earlier

Now what interest of KSA get undermine if we keep our relation with Iran in different regions which pose no threat to KSA interests ?

Yes because we were opposing players in Afghanistan, before US invasion of Afghanistan. Now in current situation we are required to have Iran on board with us along China and Russia for the resolution of Afghanistan problem, for the broader interests of Region

No Indian spy Kulbushan was caught with original Indian passports with fake identity not with Iranian passport, but it is difficult to believe that his years long presence in Chabhar could remain secret from Iranian Intelligence agencies

agreed with your E and F points and for this point believe me it was Pakistani politicians (former president Zardari and his associates) who did the most damage in this case


its good for us

this is an officially known thing not a surprise

It a service to us literally a service the Iranian are doing for us ..... for me its good that all those who have a mindset of militant (does not matter they belong to whatever sect) get killed or remain engage in their wars out side Pakistan it in our interest I DON'T WANT THEM TO RETURN TO PAKISTAN ALIVE, I don't want my country to remain in perpetual state of war.

I absolutely agree that Pakistan should maintains a balance relation with both Iran and Saudi Arabia. Im not saying Pakistan has to cut ties with Iran whatsoever. In fact, Saudi Arabia also maintains a stable relationship with India but not on the expense of Pakistan national security at all. Here is where Saudi Arabia and India differ, Kashmir issue. Saudi Arabia in all international gathering has affirmed Pakistan's sovereignty over Kashmir with no expectation to India's reaction. Now that is a balanced relation and I think India do also understand the Saudi position and that Pakistan is a red line to Saudi Arabia regardless of India-Saudi relation. The point im trying to make here is that Iran is not a strategically important to Pakistan as you made it appeared to be as Iran has not acted of being so at all.

Saudi Arabia-Pakistan trade volume around $5 billion, Pakistan remittance crossed 6 billion if not more. That makes it about $12 billion per annum aside from investments, loans..etc. While Iran-Pakistan altogether doesn't exceed $3 billion at most. To sum this up, Pakistan can indeed maintain a good relation with Iran, Saudi Arabia doesn't really care because at the end there are some benefits to Pakistan and it would be just childish act if Saudi Arabia objects to Pakistan Iran relationship. But believe me Iran won't hesitate twice to harm Pakistan if it gets the chance to do so. We have tested that in Arab world so don't take that for granted.