Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[Mingle]

C130's and V upgrade kits

How many C130s PAF needs? J or H??any chance T129 engines? or PAA will look for more Zulus??

 

[War Historian]

How many C130s PAF needs? J or H??any chance T129 engines? or PAA will look for more Zulus??

If i remember correctly, Sir @Khafee said old and new mix C-130 and mostly J model.
T129 my favourite helicopter is no more for PA Aviation, because US will not release the NOC Pakistan. Because they want to keep Pakistan as their own customer and no one would like to give old customer to new rival in the market. They will sell their own Zulus to Pakistan for hard cash.
In future we might see upcoming new Turkish helicopter T929 in Heavy category. If Turks get success in a new engine development. They're trying hard even i listen they had onboard Ukraine for engine development for 10 ton T929 attack helicopter. I pray for Turkey to get this milestone.

 

[Mingle]

If i remember correctly, Sir @Khafee said old and new mix C-130 and mostly J model.
T129 my favourite helicopter is no more for PA Aviation, because US will not release the NOC Pakistan. Because they want to keep Pakistan as their own customer and no one would like to give old customer to new rival in the market. They will sell their own Zulus to Pakistan for hard cash.
In future we might see upcoming new Turkish helicopter T929 in Heavy category. If Turks get success in a new engine development. They're trying hard even i listen they had onboard Ukraine for engine development for 10 ton T929 attack helicopter. I pray for Turkey to get this milestone.

Yeah I know I asked him under light of current developments between Pakistan /US there are J available from Royal airforce, Belgium got H available

 

[Khafee]

Sir is it possible, the old dream of "indus vipers". Upgrading F-16s at "PACK" (Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra)

IMO that is what is being worked upon, as we speak. No more upgrades at TAI beyond the 30, but at PACK InshaAllah.

 

[Khafee]

How many C130s PAF needs? J or H??any chance T129 engines? or PAA will look for more Zulus??

J and the ones initially discussed, so anywhere between 9 to 15. Lets see how this goes.

 

[Khafee]

V kits only for blk52 or older mlu as well?

I think Blk52 only at the moment, but eventually "maybe" the entire fleet, since they will go through structural upgrades like the ones being delivered via TAI.

This might not be feasible across the board, not only technically, but due to the time it would take. So two other options might seem more realistic:

1) To buy new ones.

2) OR buy EDA's and upgrade them, since they have less flying hrs, in comparison to the existing PAF fleet.

 

[Khafee]

If i remember correctly, Sir @Khafee said old and new mix C-130 and mostly J model.
T129 my favourite helicopter is no more for PA Aviation, because US will not release the NOC Pakistan. Because they want to keep Pakistan as their own customer and no one would like to give old customer to new rival in the market. They will sell their own Zulus to Pakistan for hard cash.
In future we might see upcoming new Turkish helicopter T929 in Heavy category. If Turks get success in a new engine development. They're trying hard even i listen they had onboard Ukraine for engine development for 10 ton T929 attack helicopter. I pray for Turkey to get this milestone.

Z10ME is it for now. More Zulus is a very real possibility.

 

[War Historian]

I think Blk52 only at the moment, but eventually "maybe" the entire fleet, since they will go through structural upgrades like the ones being delivered via TAI.

This might not be feasible across the board, not only technically, but due to the time it would take. So two other options might seem more realistic:

1) To buy new ones.

2) OR buy EDA's and upgrade them, since they have less flying hrs, in comparison to the existing PAF fleet.

Sir if we would do future overhaul at "PACK" then we save a lot of foreign exchange and very valuable experience for our technical staff. And it will open new doors for future development of JFT and AZM. Specially Future engine manufacturing at home.

 

[War Historian]

Z10ME is it for now. More Zulus is a very real possibility.

Yes Sir, to counter indian mechanised columns, we need immediately new attack helicopters.Z-10 ME is very potent chopper. And Zulu will neutralise indian cold start.

 

[Khafee]

Yes Sir, to counter indian mechanised columns, we need immediately new attack helicopters.Z-10 ME is very potent chopper. And Zulu will neutralise indian cold start.

and that is why they are so hard to get

 

[Khafee]

Sir if we would do future overhaul at "PACK" then we save a lot of foreign exchange and very valuable experience for our technical staff. And it will open new doors for future development of JFT and AZM. Specially Future engine manufacturing at home.

MRO and manufaturing is like comparing apples to oranges, two different levels.

 

[War Historian]

and that is why they are so hard to get

You are right Sir.but i hope near future we will raise the numbers of Zulus.

 

[Cookie Monster]

and that is why they are so hard to get

If it were up to me...I would invest the money for either...
- Zulus(if those are being acquired) into Turkish helicopter program(risk sharing and financial investment) in return for work share and partial ownership...
...to kickstart Pakistan's first step into a gunship helicopter program.

- Or I would invest the money for Z10s the same as above(in Turkish gunship helicopter development)...

...the above would be depending on which is more needed for now(based on the Indian threat) whether more quantity(Z10) or more quality(capability wise...which would be Zulus).

...yes technically both quality and quantity is needed but Pakistan cannot hope to get both and be able to set money aside to take steps towards a product that starts a journey for some local industry for an attack helicopter. However Pakistan needs some type of a local product(local at some limited level at least even if not 100% Pakistani)...
...like there is Al-Khalid, JF17, Jinnah class Frigate, etc.

..it's more of a calculated risk for the long game...foregoing some capability NOW...knowing that there is gap...gambling on the chance that a full scale war is less likely to happen in the next 10 years. This would later pay dividends when Pak can have a JF17 type of solution for an attack helicopter.

 

[War Historian]

MRO and manufaturing is like comparing apples to oranges, two different levels.

Yes Sir, MRO and manufacturing are two different level things. But MRO is the first step which will give a lot of experience and confidence to our "PACK " staff on the state of the art F-16s. And they will learn about the components and key technologies. Then they would be able to use that valuable knowledge in future upgrading of JFT.
Insha'Allah one day we will made our own turbofan engine for our JFT and AZM, which will give us independence from supplier's black mailing on terms and conditions. Thsnks.

 

[Khafee]

Yes Sir, MRO and manufacturing are two different level things. But MRO is the first step which will give a lot of experience and confidence to our "PACK " staff on the state of the art F-16s. And they will learn about the components and key technologies. Then they would be able to use that valuable knowledge in future upgrading of JFT.
Insha'Allah one day we will made our own turbofan engine for our JFT and AZM, which will give us independence from supplier's black mailing on terms and conditions. Thsnks.

Due to the metallurgical sensitivity, engine building is one of the most difficult tasks. Had R&D started 3 decades ago, today you would have a product that would be called reliable.

Lets hope there are JV's in this sector soon.