Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[AliYusuf]

The vipers will be announced first.

Hope not thru a Kashmir compromise. Hope we will keep our diplomatic offensive against India in full swing.

 

[Defence_reader]

I seriously hope with the new J15's coming in IA, PN gets its own Naval Strike Arm.

Sir i have a feeling that a platform which manufacturer is retiring for its technical and other flaws how it will be good for PAF or PN because this platform production was halt or stopped. I know the fact some thing is good then nothing. And as we know Pakistan paying these machines too now in your kind veiw how you see this whole platform development in Pak arsenal humble opinion /analysis required for a person who has not much knowledge about it because you have most and much of knowledge about this field.
My concern as not much knowledge able person is that if we are paying these birds then why taking a inferior product which is dropped or will be dropped by developer /oem.
Regards

 

[AliYusuf]

Sir i have a feeling that a platform which manufacturer is retiring for its technical and other flaws how it will be good for PAF or PN because this platform production was halt or stopped. I know the fact some thing is good then nothing. And as we know Pakistan paying these machines too now in your kind veiw how you see this whole platform development in Pak arsenal humble opinion /analysis required for a person who has not much knowledge about it because you have most and much of knowledge about this field.
My concern as not much knowledge able person is that if we are paying these birds then why taking a inferior product which is dropped or will be dropped by developer /oem.
Regards

Kindly go thru this link.

Which has this to stay ...
"While the Flying Shark has been in a number of accidents, with three fighters lost so far, and this has commonly been cited by Western reports as the cause of the aircraft's apparent failure, such losses are in fact hardly unusual for a new fighter - particularly a carrier based platform. Of the 712 American F-14 Tomcat carrier based fighters built, over 160 were destroyed in accidents - this being despite the U.S. having considerably more experience in operating carrier based fighters than China - which had none before 2013. While China’s J-15 has suffered three losses to accidents in its first five years, America’s F-14 suffered almost 40 in its first half decade in service. The F-14 was nevertheless considered one of the most successful carrier based fighters in U.S. history. "

But, I do agree on the point that in the presence of the J-16, why a deal is being considered for J-15. Because, apparently, less work is needed on the J-16 to make it suitable for the PAF, than the J-15.

 

[Defence_reader]

As said many time on threads by many respected members j16 is hardly available for Pakistan due to Russian origin frame.

 

[AliYusuf]

As said many time on threads by many respected members j16 is hardly available for Pakistan due to Russian origin frame.

Same is true for J-15.

 

[Defence_reader]

No sir as i following discussions on thread j15 aka su 33 was bought from Ukraine and reverse engineered in china. J16 based on su 30 airframe. If iam quoting wrong please correct me.

 

[AliYusuf]

No sir as i following discussions on thread j15 aka su 33 was bought from Ukraine and reverse engineered in china. J16 based on su 30 airframe. If iam quoting wrong please correct me.

China bought the prototype of the Su-33 from Ukraine after Russia had snubbed China in the early 2000's for a couple of squadron's of Su-33 ... if you remember that back then Russia too was in the running for the Indian MRCA bid. China clandestinely reverse engineered the prototype and developed the J-15. The J-11B's and J-16s were developed thru reverse engineering the Su-27s and Su-30s that were sold to China by the Russians. Over the years when Russia became more dependent on Chinese trade and financial help, Russia gave tacit permission to build these Jets. But on J-15, Russia to this day claims foul on China. So till more information gets released, we won't know the why's and how's for now.

 

[Khafee]

Kindly go thru this link.

Which has this to stay ...
"While the Flying Shark has been in a number of accidents, with three fighters lost so far, and this has commonly been cited by Western reports as the cause of the aircraft's apparent failure, such losses are in fact hardly unusual for a new fighter - particularly a carrier based platform. Of the 712 American F-14 Tomcat carrier based fighters built, over 160 were destroyed in accidents - this being despite the U.S. having considerably more experience in operating carrier based fighters than China - which had none before 2013. While China’s J-15 has suffered three losses to accidents in its first five years, America’s F-14 suffered almost 40 in its first half decade in service. The F-14 was nevertheless considered one of the most successful carrier based fighters in U.S. history. "

But, I do agree on the point that in the presence of the J-16, why a deal is being considered for J-15. Because, apparently, less work is needed on the J-16 to make it suitable for the PAF, than the J-15.

What might be apparent, might not be true.

Secondly, when any air force goes for a new platform, they have an idea of what exactly they want, it doesn't matter how much R&D or testing that product needs. They want the best. The Blk60 is a prime example, its radar, ew suite, ram coating - haveglass, higher thrust engine, all this cutting edge tech nearly 15+yrs ago.

People did not understand the for R&D + propriety tech US$3bn that had to be paid, but the Rafale's R&D for F4 from F3r cost US$2.3bn.
So the US$3bn for the Blk60 i.e. a foreign partner, is very much justifiable.

Anyways, Three things point towards why J15 and not J16:
1) The fiscal terms
2) The degree of customization
3) Maybe joint carrier ops

I am always open to correction, but my understanding is that the newer versions of J15 have more composites, than J16.

 

[AliYusuf]

What might be apparent, might not be true.

Secondly, when any air force goes for a new platform, they have an idea of what exactly the want, it doesn't matter how much R&D or testing that product needs. They want the best. The Blk60 is a prime example, its radar, ew suite, ram coating - haveglass, higher thrust engine, all this cutting edge tech nearly 15+yrs ago.

People did not understand the for R&D + propriety tech US$3bn that had to be paid, but the Rafale's R&D for F4 from F3r cost US$2.3bn.
So the US$3bn for the Blk60 i.e. a foreign partner, is very much justifiable.

Anyways, Three things point towards why J15 and not J16:
1) The fiscal terms
2) The degree of customization
3) Maybe joint carrier ops

I am always open to correction, but my understanding is that the newer versions of J15 have more composites, than J16.

Acknowledged.
Thank you for the update.

 

[PewPew]

What might be apparent, might not be true.

Secondly, when any air force goes for a new platform, they have an idea of what exactly the want, it doesn't matter how much R&D or testing that product needs. They want the best. The Blk60 is a prime example, its radar, ew suite, ram coating - haveglass, higher thrust engine, all this cutting edge tech nearly 15+yrs ago.

People did not understand the for R&D + propriety tech US$3bn that had to be paid, but the Rafale's R&D for F4 from F3r cost US$2.3bn.
So the US$3bn for the Blk60 i.e. a foreign partner, is very much justifiable.

Anyways, Three things point towards why J15 and not J16:
1) The fiscal terms
2) The degree of customization
3) Maybe joint carrier ops

I am always open to correction, but my understanding is that the newer versions of J15 have more composites, than J16.

Someone might laugh at the carrier ops part, but no one saw Project Azm coming (we all assumed the PAF will ask for the FC-31). So, seeing that Pak is trying to develop a twin engine jet, I bet there's a dossier on the CNS' desk to study aircraft carriers.

 

[loanranger]

Someone might laugh at the carrier ops part, but no one saw Project Azm coming (we all assumed the PAF will ask for the FC-31). So, seeing that Pak is trying to develop a twin engine jet, I bet there's a dossier on the CNS' desk to study aircraft carriers.

Without a doubt.

 

[Gripen9]

So we should expect 24 new Blk 72 with another 20 EDAs + existing fleet upgraded to V std soon Inshallah.

Potentially 18-24 J-15p ?

No go on Typhoons?

 

[Mastankhan]

Sir i have a feeling that a platform which manufacturer is retiring for its technical and other flaws how it will be good for PAF or PN because this platform production was halt or stopped. I know the fact some thing is good then nothing. And as we know Pakistan paying these machines too now in your kind veiw how you see this whole platform development in Pak arsenal humble opinion /analysis required for a person who has not much knowledge about it because you have most and much of knowledge about this field.
My concern as not much knowledge able person is that if we are paying these birds then why taking a inferior product which is dropped or will be dropped by developer /oem.
Regards

hi

maybe i can try to answer that.

one man’s trash is another man’s treasure
so as long as the machine is functional operational able and capable, then it all depends on your utility of the machine, what you know about it and what you can get out of it.

case in point—-mirage 3 / 5’s

nobody wants to touch them with a 10 foot pole, but our love fir this aircraft is so great that we go hunting all over the world to find more if them.

so it is not what the machine can do for you, it is what you can dowith the machine
It is what you can make the machine do

Can you can make it sing and dance for you?

 

[TomCat]

hi

maybe i can try to answer that.

one man’s trash is another man’s treasure
so as long as the machine is functional operational able and capable, then it all depends on your utility of the machine, what you know about it and what you can get out of it.

case in point—-mirage 3 / 5’s

nobody wants to touch them with a 10 foot pole, but our love fir this aircraft is so great that we go hunting all over the world to find more if them.

so it is not what the machine can do for you, it is what you can dowith the machine

Sir, issues with J-15 is solely due to incompatible take-off mode on Liaoning carrier. J-15 Engines require heavy maintenance due to this.

 

[Mastankhan]

Someone might laugh at the carrier ops part, but no one saw Project Azm coming (we all assumed the PAF will ask for the FC-31). So, seeing that Pak is trying to develop a twin engine jet, I bet there's a dossier on the CNS' desk to study aircraft carriers.

hi

a 5th gen for paf was obvious became more so after the jf17 blk 2

Project azm is ???????

i will just say “ek kalah tay do giaraan” ( one stands alone and two are like eleven )