Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[loanranger]

- Related to Kashmir -- Stop raising kashmir issue/stop criticizing Modi
- Related to Chinese -- Roll back CPEC
- Related to CPEC (?)-- Above
- Related to Afghanistan-- Stop supporting the Talibs
- Related to Turkey/Iran/ME--Provide bases for action against Iran (if USA wants to go to war)

These are not the conditions put forward but as i said just think about the extreme...

If these are the conditions there will be no new f16s on Pakistani soil ever. Unless everyone is a sell out.

 

[TsAr]

If these are the conditions there will be no new f16s on Pakistani soil ever. Unless everyone is a sell out.

I never said they are.......

 

[TomCat]

- Related to Kashmir -- Stop raising kashmir issue/stop criticizing Modi
- Related to Chinese -- Roll back CPEC
- Related to CPEC (?)-- Above
- Related to Afghanistan-- Stop supporting the Talibs
- Related to Turkey/Iran/ME--Provide bases for action against Iran (if USA wants to go to war)

These are not the conditions put forward but as i said just think about the extreme...

The one's you discussed, let's ignore point 2 & 3 for a sec, That's impossible to rollback now. And Pak would never do that for just some 36 birds which have limitations even during wartime, when can have better from other countries as well.

Then again, let's take point no.1, can that happen? If this condition even accepted, would be the biggest blunder in the history of Pak politics, history will write that a PM who gave an amazing speech for kashmir at UNGA suddenly stuck a pacifier up his mouth because he was getting 36 birds and older birds were being upgraded. Modi, is increasingly popular leader in a country that amounts for almost 23% of whole world population, sole motto is fascism and right at our border. A very big threat in near future. If not stopped.

4 - Related to talibs? They will get upset, rebel, plus, as per my strong belief, it is not fit for army to do such an act. Anyhow, that won't happen either as pak alone is not with them on table, russia and china are also on the table with them and us.

5 - If we have even a bit of sanity, which we do have, we won't repeat the same mistakes of our previous as well as other countries in the region who later on suffered the worst fate. However, if let's say, they establish a base in pak, that would be a surety to keep india at bay and keep china in check but this would affect CPEC and chinese interests as well as our interests

 

[loanranger]

I never said they are.......

No you are fine. I was talking hypothetical

 

[AliYusuf]

On the flip side of the coin, let us consider that ...
The US has realized that there truly can't be any sort of face saving solution in Afghanistan, without Pakistan's help, when they truly seek/require it.
Growing realization that India is no more of use against China, in actual practice, than (lets say) the African Republic of Chad (pun intended).
All India has been doing is posture and scheme against Pakistan.
There is a real possibility that the US may truly want to eliminate any chance of a nuclear war in south asia.

 

[Zeeman]

Why do we have such defeatist mentality?

We have few cards of our own. When you walk in the meeting with the mentality that you will be offered less and you have to accept less then you end up with less....

Although above noted issues are valid but right now our transaction with the USA is based on us delivering Afghanistan.

IK has added a totally new and never seen dimension to US /Pak relationship that never existed before: personality based diplomacy.

Americans for the first time are dealing with someone with no skeletons in the closet and mentality which knows how to deal and win with the West.

The second factor is his diplomatic approach towards Iran and Saudis.... as they say when the husband and wife are fighting to the bitter end only a mutual friend can save divorce. If IK manages to open a window for saudis and Iran to talk then that achievement alone will bring Pakistan to the top of diplomatic ladder never seen in our history before.

So no Kashmir will not be compromised and CPEC not touched. Americans know they need help with Iran and Afghanistan and only Pakistan can help. It’s good to know that Iran have no friends left and they will accept Pakistan as a mediator which is a win win for everyone.

 

[TomCat]

On the flip side of the coin, let us consider that ...
The US has realized that there truly can't be any sort of face saving solution in Afghanistan, without Pakistan's help, when they truly seek/require it.
Growing realization that India is no more of use against China, in actual practice, than (lets say) the African Republic of Chad (pun intended).
All India has been doing is posture and scheme against Pakistan.
There is a real possibility that the US may truly want to eliminate any chance of a nuclear war in south asia.

Why do we have such defeatist mentality?

We have few cards of our own. When you walk in the meeting with the mentality that you will be offered less and you have to accept less then you end up with less....

Although above noted issues are valid but right now our transaction with the USA is based on us delivering Afghanistan.

IK has added a totally new and never seen dimension to US /Pak relationship that never existed before: personality based diplomacy.

Americans for the first time are dealing with someone with no skeletons in the closet and mentality which knows how to deal and win with the West.

The second factor is his diplomatic approach towards Iran and Saudis.... as they say when the husband and wife are fighting to the bitter end only a mutual friend can save divorce. If IK manages to open a window for saudis and Iran to talk then that achievement alone will bring Pakistan to the top of diplomatic ladder never seen in our history before.

So no Kashmir will not be compromised and CPEC not touched. Americans know they need help with Iran and Afghanistan and only Pakistan can help. It’s good to know that Iran have no friends left and they will accept Pakistan as a mediator which is a win win for everyone.

That's what it must be. Instead of they dictating us, playing with us, they are in less or no position to do that now, tables have turned, we have the upper hand, with a little bit of wise and planned negotitations, we can again become a so called "ALLY" which is not the primary concern but most importantly we can get our CSF funded birds/helis. They know that anything bitter or unpleasant to Pakistan will leave Pakistan showing US backs and back to where we are, in the Chinese basket.

We are in no way, dying to have those F-16s here along with the upgrades. We have J-10C option as last resort available.

 

[Mastankhan]

I think the point he was trying to make is that buying a platform that has been out of production for a while is a very risky maneuver.

i do understand that sir—-very well as a matter of fact.

just ask the israelis from where and what kind of weapons they bought for the 1948 war.

looks like Young people who have never had any existential threats have no clue what that really means. All they know is big words even though we have examples in front if our eyes but to see them we need ti read history.

wars in africa for independence, anerican war of independence, russian afghan war, american afghan war, syrian air war where pak pilot shot down superior enemy, possible used 155 howitzers coming from italy that are old.

you want me to continue?

a weapon us just a tool, what you can do with it is something different

 

[Zeeman]

India is no longer an Asian tiger ( not that it ever was) ... decades of all sorts of help from outsourcing to H1B has only resulted in China developing at the light speed and Indians fudging numbers to look stable.

World is not blind. They know Indians cannot win over unarmed Kashmiris let alone have any control over Pakistan or China. It’s the nation that refuses to rise no matter how many billions West pumps.

At some point Americans will have to pull back and let China roll over like they just did in Syria .... let the obvious power take over...

 

[Signalian]

Hi,

This is all useless talk to make excuses for not doing anything---totally worthless---.

For a nation---who has a war declared against it since the 26th feb---the only questions need to be asked is---what aircraft can we get NOW that can hurt the enemy the most---what aircraft we can get NOW that brings most fear and concern in the enemy camp---which aircraft can hurt the most vulnerable enemy spots NOW---.

The poster has put so many twists and turns in that post that instead of getting the blade of the sword sharpened to be readied for combat---the poster has spun a web of confusion to get the participants entangled in indecision---.

And I see the high and mighty also fall for it as well---so tragic.

It was mentioned in the first line of the post about "data" as well as "point of views". A food for thought process invites different points of views. If all this creates confusion, please use ignore button. I don't see anyone else getting confused.

 

[Signalian]

Vipers - 36 New IA
Used Vipers - no news

So from 24, it jumps up to 36, which means two squadrons. As for used vipers, the option from Jordan as well as Block 40 from USAF EDA should exist. If PAF goes for the F-16 Block 70, then it will be interesting to note whether AESA arrives into PAF from JF-17 Block III or F-16 Block 70.

At this moment, F-16 Block 70's avionics and electronic suite coupled with AIM120D (if possible) should prove to a bitter rival to Rafale. Irony is that Rafale exists in IAF's line up, however decision about F-16 Block 70 is yet to be seen.

 

[Gripen9]

On the flip side of the coin, let us consider that ...
The US has realized that there truly can't be any sort of face saving solution in Afghanistan, without Pakistan's help, when they truly seek/require it.
Growing realization that India is no more of use against China, in actual practice, than (lets say) the African Republic of Chad (pun intended).
All India has been doing is posture and scheme against Pakistan.
There is a real possibility that the US may truly want to eliminate any chance of a nuclear war in south asia.

I feel the same. For Pakistan, CPEC/Kashmir are non negotiable.
With the new government, US maybe thinking they have a decent partner that can assist and then maintain peace in Afghanistan.
US intel most probably figured out that either Pulwama was a false flag or Indian Intel deliberately let it happen for political gain. Subsequent events of Feb 26/27 made then further doubt India's usefulness against China.
So US wants to provide Pakistan with minimum deterrence to deter India's future adventures that may lead to a nuclear exchange.

my concern is if come next US election, we have a democrat President, things will not be as favorable for Pakistan as Dem president have historically leaned towards India

 

[Signalian]

But if you tell PAF to take on JH-7 or Tornado or Buccaneers, they will say no thank you very much. These planes are out of production for decades and PAF has zero expertise maintaining them.

Would definitely agree on this.

 

[Signalian]

J15P - 24units +/-

Nothing official(Chinese) coming out on this or is there that i missed? Chinese seems to have developed a full flanker industry starting from Su-27/30 and going towards J-11 towards J-16.

 

[Gripen9]

possible used 155 howitzers coming from italy that are old.

This is my last post on this. Don't want to belabor the same point. We can agree to disagree.

The SP Hows we are getting from Italy are M109s that we already have tons of. So absorbing them into our units is not an issue. It is not like we will actively go find old south african G5/G6s.