Pakistan Gets F16 -Blk70/72

[TomCat]

The video and it's accounts are not the issue for me.

But what is an issue for me, and the Indians will make valid argument of it, is the "CU2.." incomplete serial number in the wreckage ...

View attachment 10960

The CU serial prefix are for the IAF MiG-21 Bisons.
The SU-30 MKI have an SB prefix.

Then Bison, it is - Master Yoda

 

[Khafee]

from some of the posts it seems J15 has issues and PLAAF might not be inducting more. Is it true sir?

Sir IF this is the case, what do you think PLAN is going to fly from its new a/c's ?

 

[Khafee]

Video been posted on youtube some hrs ago where an eye witness on indian side claiming an IAF aircraft crashed on Indian side on 27th feb

It didnt crash, it decided to embrace humility and kiss mother earth.

 

[Zeeman]

I am sure IK couldn't understand what Xi was talking about ....IK's immediate response would be , as usual, "We want Peace, look we lost some 70 thousand........." than Bajwa Sb intervened ...Sir Xi asking about tools that we need to maintain peace.......

And you guys were sitting in the meeting with IK to know All of this ?

 

[PewPew]

I feel the same. For Pakistan, CPEC/Kashmir are non negotiable.
With the new government, US maybe thinking they have a decent partner that can assist and then maintain peace in Afghanistan.
US intel most probably figured out that either Pulwama was a false flag or Indian Intel deliberately let it happen for political gain. Subsequent events of Feb 26/27 made then further doubt India's usefulness against China.
So US wants to provide Pakistan with minimum deterrence to deter India's future adventures that may lead to a nuclear exchange.

my concern is if come next US election, we have a democrat President, things will not be as favorable for Pakistan as Dem president have historically leaned towards India

Only Clinton was unfavourable to Pakistan.

Otherwise, the Democrats have been OK. Yes, Reagan and Bush released the aid, but Bush Sr. stood by when Pressler passed, and Trump did a complete reversal on CSF/FMF.

Moreover, the Reagan and Bush periods coincided with Afghanistan. But you'll be interested to know that Carter, while he nixed the A-7 deal, he stopped Sweden from selling Viggins to India while lobbying France to release a credit line so that PAF can get the M2K and F-1.

Basically, the US decides based on national interest not the President. Even Trump with his badgering is a reflection of US interests, just to an extreme.

If the US wants to keep India in check a little, then the PAF will get F-16s. If the US agrees to 36 Block 72s, then I think the PAF will add the 14 Jordanian F-16s too. Basically, build 4 complete Block-15 A/B (upgraded to F-16V) units alongside 3 C/D Block-72s.

 

[Gripen9]

Only Clinton was unfavourable to Pakistan.

Otherwise, the Democrats have been OK. Yes, Reagan and Bush released the aid, but Bush Sr. stood by when Pressler passed, and Trump did a complete reversal on CSF/FMF.

Moreover, the Reagan and Bush periods coincided with Afghanistan. But you'll be interested to know that Carter, while he nixed the A-7 deal, he stopped Sweden from selling Viggins to India while lobbying France to release a credit line so that PAF can get the M2K and F-1.

Basically, the US decides based on national interest not the President. Even Trump with his badgering is a reflection of US interests, just to an extreme.

If the US wants to keep India in check a little, then the PAF will get F-16s. If the US agrees to 36 Block 72s, then I think the PAF will add the 14 Jordanian F-16s too. Basically, build 4 complete Block-15 A/B (upgraded to F-16V) units alongside 3 C/D Block-72s.

Agree somewhat. Viggen scenario was at the height of the cold war and India was firmly in the Soviet camp. Post cold war, we have had Clinton and Obama as dem presidents and both have been quite anti-Pak. We have also not helped our case as well. Democrats also have a lot more Indian and American Indian penetration at key staffers levels that we need to be vary about as well.

 

[Wolf-PK]

And you guys were sitting in the meeting with IK to know All of this ?

not sitting there ...but not difficult to predict what was happened. ...IK is just another brick in the wall.......

 

[HRK]

they will accept Pakistan as a mediator which is a win win for everyone.

A little correction Facilitator rather a mediator

 

[PewPew]

Agree somewhat. Viggen scenario was at the height of the cold war and India was firmly in the Soviet camp. Post cold war, we have had Clinton and Obama as dem presidents and both have been quite anti-Pak. We have also not helped our case as well. Democrats also have a lot more Indian and American Indian penetration at key staffers levels that we need to be vary about as well.

Obama wasn't bad. He agreed to a lot of the DSCA proposals by Pakistan, it was the Republican-backed Congress, which went full retard over the last 5 years (with right wing Indians playing a role) that blocked the stuff. Remember, Obama was OK with subsidizing the batch of 8 F-16s with FMF, it was Congress that blocked it. He also greenlit the sale of AH-1Z with 1000 Hellfire IIs (again with FMF).

Thanks to IK, the Democrats can sell their base on Pakistan having at least a liberal gov't. The India lobby will have a hard time with the Democrats so long as Modi is in charge and Millennial aged people (growing new bloc in Congress (fail to see India's soft image. Plus, the Indians themselves have a limited shelf-life; in 1-2 generations Indian immigrants lose their links to home and more or less think as goras.

It's easy to screw with Pak today thanks to Trump and the morons in the White House, but not for long.

 

[TomCat]

Ohhhhh, just this just came as a shock in my mind. The regular visits we are paying off to KSA and iran visit are nothing but part of the package in return for F-16s/CSF. IK, KSA, Iran, all of these are chess pieces for USA right now, they are trying to make someone do something. And i am 100% sure on that. It never was IK being acting all supreme leader of mUsliM UmMaH. Furthermore, i backup my claim with the fact that these visits to both countries have no say from China/Russia. So unless we hear something big in this KSA/Iran issue, we won't be hearing anything about vipers as well.

 

[Usama]

Hi All,

Just a rookie question.
From what i have gathered going through the forum is that PAF has shown interest in twin engine jets - Su 35, Euro fighter, j15 (most likely).
So the question is that why are we now looking for twin engine because in the past we have been happy with single engine jets? We did not feel the need to have a heavy deep strike platform before. Has there been a change in our doctrine?
If this has already been discussed or answered kindly point me in the right direction.

Regards,
Usama

 

[TomCat]

Hi All,

Just a rookie question.
From what i have gathered going through the forum is that PAF has shown interest in twin engine jets - Su 35, Euro fighter, j15 (most likely).
So the question is that why are we now looking for twin engine because in the past we have been happy with single engine jets? We did not feel the need to have a heavy deep strike platform before. Has there been a change in our doctrine?
If this has already been discussed or answered kindly point me in the right direction.

Regards,
Usama

There is a serious issue. Everytime a chief changes, doctrines, priorities change. There is i believe no "COLLECTIVE TRI-SERVICES LONG_TERM" doctrine or might be that we are not aware of it as it's not our matter. Every new comes like a tarzan with his own so-called "SUPERIOR Mind & Plan". 27 Feb might have opened our eyes ( based on what happened internally,) might haven't, this no one can tell you exactly, not on this forum even if they know. Only our pilots/command knows what shortcomings we faced in terms of Air defence, interception, permission, BVR, radars etc. But what matters is to learn and plan wisely.

Heavy Deep Strike platform was always a must even if it wasn't in our go-to list which would be very wrong. We are outnumbered by a force which has command-structure-training shortfall. If the tables were turned, our pilots were indian pilots, we wouldn't stand 2 days in a conventional war thanks to our compared small economy and fleet size. But yea, time changes everything, what-if lets say tommorow india rectifies it's problems, wouldn't that be the biggest threat ? Not only would that be a nuclear threat but a Major conventional threat. Flankers are Missile-Trucks, India has the Super-Sukhoi program on table, never stopped considering it and near future, it might be pursued as well.

Not to forget, we have a fascist/racist/extremist person next to our border, 'KHAR-DIMAGH', can light up everything anytime when he wills, one day when he says on stage "agar hamare pilot ache hote to aj ye nai hota" just like he had regrets for rafale, then we can safely say that they have a goal which includes rigourous training. We will be left with Light Fighters, A small fleet of F-16s with NO AESA. Our Air defence is not that good as well. We are just let's say living on BONUS, God has given us a chance and we are utilising it by just playing guess-games uptil now.

We must have atleast 48-56 Flankers J-15+J-11D ( J-11D is rumoured to host rcs as low as frontal RCS of SU-35 which is i believe 3m^2). Apart from that, if InshaAllah USA gives us additional F-16s, we mustn't waste time and try to pursue for more & more until our numbers exceed 8 Squadrons. And a handsome fleet of Block 3 of just 50 but Block 1 & 2 upgraded to Block 3 standard. Then we can sit back, relax and focus heavily on AZM

 

[PewPew]

Hi All,

Just a rookie question.
From what i have gathered going through the forum is that PAF has shown interest in twin engine jets - Su 35, Euro fighter, j15 (most likely).
So the question is that why are we now looking for twin engine because in the past we have been happy with single engine jets? We did not feel the need to have a heavy deep strike platform before. Has there been a change in our doctrine?
If this has already been discussed or answered kindly point me in the right direction.

Regards,
Usama

AHQ determined in 2016 (or earlier) that a heavier and longer ranged platform was needed to support Pakistan's maritime and deterrence interests.

We're steadily moving from "minimum deterrence" to a 'shock and awe' type of doctrine.

Why?

Because it's in India's DNA to always escalate, and the nukes, while essential, are there to simply stop India from using them.

But the benefits of nukes clearly don't translate to deterring India from shooting up trees and chicken shacks.

While such targets have zero tactical value, they whip the Hindu incel class into a frenzy, and can potentially harm our foreign relations too.

So, the shift is now to smash them conventionally in the first 24/48 hrs of a conflict.

Sadly, we revealed a very early stage example of this on Feb 28...but the actual plan is to send 16+ dual engine jets to an area as part of offensive counter air (OCA) missions with EW, AEW&C and -- when available -- drones and just lay waste to their military assets. Then those assets return (if it all), and our hundreds of JF-17s and F-16s wall off any incursion from India (while our Navy and Army follow up with relentless LACM strikes).

Take the above and multiply it by a factor of 5-6 and at every critical area in NW India.

The second part of the doctrine is to develop our rapid mobilization forces to interdict actual Indian entries (e.g. SOF ops and the like). So: guided long range arty, light commando battalions, enlarging SSG, helicopters, attack helicopters, etc.

 

[Mastankhan]

AHQ determined in 2016 (or earlier) that a heavier and longer ranged platform was needed to support Pakistan's maritime and deterrence interests.

We're steadily moving from "minimum deterrence" to a 'shock and awe' type of doctrine.

Why?

Because it's in India's DNA to always escalate, and the nukes, while essential, are there to simply stop India from using them.

But the benefits of nukes clearly don't translate to deterring India from shooting up trees and chicken shacks.

While such targets have zero tactical value, they whip the Hindu incel class into a frenzy, and can potentially harm our foreign relations too.

So, the shift is now to smash them conventionally in the first 24/48 hrs of a conflict.

Sadly, we revealed a very early stage example of this on Feb 28...but the actual plan is to send 16+ dual engine jets to an area as part of offensive counter air (OCA) missions with EW, AEW&C and -- when available -- drones and just lay waste to their military assets. Then those assets return (if it all), and our hundreds of JF-17s and F-16s wall off any incursion from India (while our Navy and Army follow up with relentless LACM strikes).

Take the above and multiply it by a factor of 5-6 and at every critical area in NW India.

The second part of the doctrine is to develop our rapid mobilization forces to interdict actual Indian entries (e.g. SOF ops and the like). So: guided long range arty, light commando battalions, enlarging SSG, helicopters, attack helicopters, etc.

Hi,

Thank you for your post---.

I would have really appreciated if the Paf had acknowledged my efforts of 20 plus years of writing on this subject on the world defense forums and sent me a thank you note---.

But I have yet to receive it---.

 

[Mastankhan]

Enjoy the video